Winston Update - Still no answers :(

[yeb90]

I posted a brief update in my original thread but thought it would be a good idea to start a new thread. For anyone new to what's happening, Winston (red lored amazon), started vomiting mid-late February. It came along with more time spent puffed, sleepiness (although not quite lethargy), undigested food in his poop and some liquidy poops, and decreased appetite for a couple of days. The vet I took him to did a gram stain, culture for candida, and took x-rays but didn't do bloodwork. He sent us home with probiotics, everything came back normal, and essentially did no follow-up (I was told I'd need an appointment when I asked to discuss the results and follow-up testing with the doctor ).

Following this, Winston returned to his normal self over the course of about a week. Then, about two weeks after the probiotics ran out (I wanted to talk to the vet about continuing them but see above...) he started vomiting again. I started him on probiotics again and took him to a different vet (who had previously been our back up). This time he had only one day of vomiting (very very early in the morning and then again in the afternoon after returning home from the vet) accompanied by sleepiness and abnormal poops. No decrease in appetite.

The vet did bloodwork and everything came back normal. He essentially recommended I keep him on probiotics indefinitely and then if Winston started vomiting again or I noticed anything else do another gram stain followed by another x-ray and a crop wash if the gram stain didn't show anything abnormal. One last thing I've noticed (and it may be totally irrelevant) is that Winston has been molting on and off now for maybe three months. I don't know if this just happens and I never took note of it before or if it's indicative of a problem. As many of you and the vet have affirmed, his feather condition is good. But I'm worried he may be losing new feathers and regrowing them rather than old feathers that need replacing.

The second bout of vomiting was nine days ago. Winston has been his normal happy self and his poop has been looking more normal. No more vomiting. But then tonight, he's been essentially dry heaving but has not yet brought anything up. It's happened twice so far tonight and it lasts for a couple of minutes each time (not bobbing the whole time) before going back to sleep. This happened the first time around before he started bringing anything up so I'm worried it's only a matter of time before he starts vomiting again. I do not think it's behavioral (especially since he's been waking up in the middle of the night to do it!). It comes along with a sound (hard to describe but NOT a vocalization) and I have videos but not sure how to share. I'll be bringing him back to the vet but figured I'd pop in here to see anyone has any words of wisdom. I don't think I'll be sleeping much tonight and I'm feeling very worried and alone

 

[DinoStormy]

I have nothing to say, but I'm so sorry for poor Winston. This must be very hard for you, I hope he makes a fast recovery

 

[Pat H]

The accuracy of you observations should help the vet ...

 

[yeb90]

I have nothing to say, but I'm so sorry for poor Winston. This must be very hard for you, I hope he makes a fast recovery

Thank you!

 

[Hankmacaw]

Ask your vet to do an;
Anti-ganglioside Antibody test: This test looks for antibodies to the virus in the blood. It gives definitive proof of the presence of the Avian Bornavirus.

The long history of regurgitation is an indicator of the presence of ABV - and can, of course, indicate many other illnesses. I would get this test done and get that risk out of the way or confirmed. Starting on treatment early for the ABV infection gives the very best outcome.

 

[yeb90]

Ask your vet to do an;
Anti-ganglioside Antibody test: This test looks for antibodies to the virus in the blood. It gives definitive proof of the presence of the Avian Bornavirus.

The long history of regurgitation is an indicator of the presence of ABV - and can, of course, indicate many other illnesses. I would get this test done and get that risk out of the way or confirmed. Starting on treatment early for the ABV infection gives the very best outcome.

Thank you! I just spoke to the vet. He’s hopeful that’s not what’s going on but will test him and may want to do x-rays as well to look for associated inflammation.

He’s booked two weeks out but said he’ll find a way to squeeze him in if necessary. There’s been some more bobbing this morning but so far he hasn’t actually regurgitated.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Is your bird losing weight. That is also a symptom that can work into the entire pattern.

I hope that my suspicions are very, very wrong. I have a PDD positive bird and sometimes if caught and treated in time ABV will not become PDD.

 

[yeb90]

Is your bird losing weight. That is also a symptom that can work into the entire pattern.

I hope that my suspicions are very, very wrong. I have a PDD positive bird and sometimes if caught and treated in time ABV will not become PDD.

Thankfully, he is not losing weight. It's just the intermittent regurgitation and bobbing. When he's regurgitating it comes along with abnormal poop and lower than usual energy (as of this moment he is his normal, energetic self).

 

[sunnysmom]

I hope he'll be okay. Let us know how the vet appointment goes.

 

[yeb90]

I hope he'll be okay. Let us know how the vet appointment goes.

I will! Thank you everyone for the support!

I’m still worried sick and hoping that it ends up being something relatively minor and curable. I’m feeling like we’re at least in better hands now with this vet. He’s been very easy to reach and just listening to him speak I get the sense he’s a lot more knowledgeable about birds than our previous vet.

I’m pretty bummed we wasted time and money (really only because money is quite tight right now — I’m happy to pour all I can into figuring this out) with a vet who was so totally unhelpful.

 

[yeb90]

An update and a possible answer! Winston regurgitated again really early this morning and when I went to change his papers I found itsy bitsy pieces of wood in what came up . I know exactly which toy it’s from too as all of the wood was undyed.

In January I loaded a spiral skewer with 1/4” pine slices and it’s been on his living room gym since then. He likes to hang out on his gym and nibble off small pieces that he then shaves down (he’ll work on one tiny piece for quite a while!). There’s so much wood on the floor I never would’ve suspected he was swallowing it!

I don’t know how long he’s been ingesting the pieces but the timing makes sense — especially if it didn’t start immediately once I put the toy on his gym.

Given that Winston is active and eating well the vet said he thinks it’s ok to remove all wooden toys and keep watching him for now.

Here are my questions though. First, is there anything I should be doing to help him pass any wood that may still be in his body? The vet didn’t say anything about this but I can call and speak to him tomorrow (my partner called for me for which I am very grateful but didn’t ask all the questions I probably would have). Second, how am I going to keep him busy?!!! He has been almost exclusively interested in wooden toys lately. Is it safe to give let him keep other wooden toys (we’ve removed everything for the moment)? As far as I can tell, this is the only toy he’s been doing this with. He generally does more chipping off big chunks (and the other wooden toys in rotation right now are all dyed) but I’m afraid I could be wrong.

 

[Hankmacaw]

My Jasper had a mild case of Pica and started eating her wooden toys. Like your guy she would shave the wood down to the teenyiest tinyiest pieces and swallow some. I had to remove virtually all wood she could get ahold of to chew (poor baby had hardly any toys) and it stopped the issue. She had been impacted twice before and the Dr. had me give her Metamucil and/or peanut butter to clear the impaction. It took about five weeks to clear the plastic wiffle ball that she ate, but only a couple of weeks to clear the wood. The best way to check to see if the wrong stuff is still coming out is to put some poop in a plastic baggy and smush it around to see if there are any foreign objects in it. Funny she never regurgitated, but her crop did get infected when she ate the wiffle ball.

 

[yeb90]

My Jasper had a mild case of Pica and started eating her wooden toys. Like your guy she would shave the wood down to the teenyiest tinyiest pieces and swallow some. I had to remove virtually all wood she could get ahold of to chew (poor baby had hardly any toys) and it stopped the issue. She had been impacted twice before and the Dr. had me give her Metamucil and/or peanut butter to clear the impaction. It took about five weeks to clear the plastic wiffle ball that she ate, but only a couple of weeks to clear the wood. The best way to check to see if the wrong stuff is still coming out is to put some poop in a plastic baggy and smush it around to see if there are any foreign objects in it. Funny she never regurgitated, but her crop did get infected when she ate the wiffle ball.

Oh my god! How much whiffle ball did she eat?! It sounds like that must’ve been scary! Can she have wooden toys safely now?

I feel silly that I didn’t notice he was swallowing pieces until now — and only then because I saw them in his vomit. And I’ve spent so much time watching him nibble away and thinking it was so sweet! I’ll try peanut butter and start inspecting his poop.

I’m really hoping this is the answer to what’s been going on with him and that this will soon be behind us!

 

[Hankmacaw]

Jasper is deceased - she died last Sept. after a 21 hard fought life. It appeared to me like she ate the whole thing - thank goodnes it was turquoise blue and easier to spot in her poos.

I'm hoping it is what is wrong too - the easy solution.

Wasn't scared. I don't get scared easy - doesn't pay with birds, or any animals for that matter.

 

[sunnysmom]

I hope that's the cause. And like you said, any easy fix.