when is this going to stop if at all?

[Coliephile]

I guess you'll just have to accept the fact that Jay has a big ego and considers the other birds in your household as schmutz. According to his viewpoint humans are one step above that because you provide for his needs. Maybe you should just give Jay his own space; his own corner of the room away from contact with the other birds so they can't get to his cage. Give him his own perch stand and space. That way, he can still be 'near' the other birds and benefit from the instinctive need for flock interaction,but not having him continually thinking that they are invading his space. The wing trim will also prevent him from going on a tirade and continually trying to drive them away (which is what he's doing).

 

[Coliephile]

This is an adjunct post to the one above to site another example of how spiteful birds can be to each other that I have observed. Granted you have to bear in mind that these behaviours are driven by the struggle to survive and the competitive nature of a species; unlike humans where it maybe motivated by pure evil. A pair of cliff swallows constructed a mud nest above my livingroom window. I was enthralled when they managed to hatch out three beautiful healthy babies. I would hear them being fed and greeting each other. It brought me great joy to witness this. then suddenly just as all the babies were fledging, a spiteful pair of English house sparrows raided the nest while the parents were gone feeding and threw all three babies out of the nest leaving them to die of exposure and dehydration in the summer heat on the concrete. I was heartbroken to find the babies on the driveway expired and buried them in the front garden. I saw the culprits take the mud nest over to raise their own brood. It was heart wrenching to hear the plaintive calls of the swallows when they found their babies gone.

 

[LuvMyBirds]

Anne I'm so sorry that Jay bit again. I have no answers for you except Jay's an amazon Those of us with one (or more) of the hot 3 feel your angst.

 

[allison]

I'd say that when you notice he's in an off mood, just leave him in until he calms down.

 

[TITANIS]

English Sparrows are a very aggressive species for their size. I'm not surprised at all they did what you saw. These birds have taken over the world for this reason after the British introduced them in their colonies. That being said, birds as a group are no more aggressive towards other birds than many non-avian families. I would even go on a limb to say they are less so within their own species, if we take ursids, felids, canids and worst of all, primates as examples. Mammals can be unbelievably belligerent even within their own immediate families.

This is an adjunct post to the one above to site another example of how spiteful birds can be to each other that I have observed. Granted you have to bear in mind that these behaviours are driven by the struggle to survive and the competitive nature of a species; unlike humans where it maybe motivated by pure evil. A pair of cliff swallows constructed a mud nest above my livingroom window. I was enthralled when they managed to hatch out three beautiful healthy babies. I would hear them being fed and greeting each other. It brought me great joy to witness this. then suddenly just as all the babies were fledging, a spiteful pair of English house sparrows raided the nest while the parents were gone feeding and threw all three babies out of the nest leaving them to die of exposure and dehydration in the summer heat on the concrete. I was heartbroken to find the babies on the driveway expired and buried them in the front garden. I saw the culprits take the mud nest over to raise their own brood. It was heart wrenching to hear the plaintive calls of the swallows when they found their babies gone.

 

[Welshanne]

Very interested in all the good comments from this post. My own evaluation of this comes a little differently, due to my closeness with my Grey Leroy as guidance.
I have to take into account Jay's background and what has happened to him over the past months. Even taking into account that he is an Amazon and how strong minded they can be, I have to give him a lot of credit as to how he has handled himself in the situation he found himself being put in.
From a cosy life with the owner he loved to distraction he was suddenly caterpolted into a strangers home after having to travel for six hours or more. The experiences he encountered there for a month must have been a living nightmare for him,
When he would not conform to the behaviour that was expected of him he was again on the move, to me, and another six hour journey with one stop with strangers in between.
He arrived back with me with lots of baggage. Sleep deprivation from staying awake at night with his sick first owner for months on end, not leaving her bed only to find food and water and toilet purposes.
Over preening by his cage companion who was also nervous and terrified of the big changes in their lives.
He was trying to be the big brother and hold it all together for Chaz the hybrid Macaw, eight yrs old and never been without jay there for him.
He is now pushing the bounderies and trying to be top bird because he is beginning to trust me and I find that a huge step forward.
While I am just the provider of his home comforts and only looked on as such, that is fine by me, but he is beginning to think there is more to this relationship and maybe he can be safe and happy again.
I am going to see if his previous owner is well enough on my next phone call , whether her talking to him over the phone will have any impact and perhaps help the situation in making him realise there is a connection from his past.
Lots of you may think I am losing the plot, but believe me I have seen less
work very well. There is nothing lost by trying and we can only help to improve his situation.
The wing clipping as far as I am concerned is a big no no as i believe he should be left as God intended him to be. Watch this space!

 

[TITANIS]

The wing clipping as far as I am concerned is a big no no as i believe he should be left as God intended him to be. Watch this space!

I totally agree, Ann, that nature should be as nature intended. The only other thing I can offer is to try to get some distance between Jay and the rest of your flock. I am genuinely concerned about your other birds. I heard too many unfortunate stories that need not be retold with the exercise of precautionary measures. This won't be an easy task with a fully-flighted Amazon.

 

[Welshanne]

Titanis what I have noticed time and time again with jay is he does back down if he is cornered. It is not a situation that I like, but at the end of the day he is not going to think that I am going to be at all scared of him. then I know I am lost.
We are getting less and less confrontations with management and watching his body language, but having said that with the quick mood changes it is not an easy ride.
Think he is baffled that through it all he is shown only love, be it a bit on the tough side at times.
Looking back to when he came to us back in July this year we have come on leaps and bounds. The other four birds are never in danger and that will never happen, but the only one getting any kind of retaliation is myself.
Would it be that his hormones are also playing a huge part at the moment? Him being very territorial and go near his cage at your peril etc.
Give me a Grey to fathom out any day!

 

[Coliephile]

I agree with Titanis. I have the same concerns over the safety for the rest of your birds. I am presuming they are also fledged? And correct me if I'm wrong I recall you mentioned in one of your posts that the birds do have access to Jay's cage? I can tell you from past experiences what I have seen regarding territorial disputes among birds sharing space that when an altercation does occur, it happens so quickly you barely have time to bat an eyelash. And sometimes it's too late. I have known individual birds who were at the receiving end of such aggression become mortally wounded and die within minutes. And take this into consideration: if you want Jay to live the way God intended, he probably wouldn't be in someone's home in Great Britain living in a cage; but comingling with other flockmates in trees overlooking the Amazon River beating the crap out of any bird he didn't like who dares to share his branch. If that bird got mortally wounded by Jay it would die for sure. Captivity presents a different set of dynamics which go against Nature and just the fact that a human in this scenario is the one playing "God" presents a special set of circumstances.

 

[Janie]

My comments are not among the serious nature because I feel you have gotten valuable information already. (except I do agree with flighted)
What I'm commenting on is your amazing attitude. I feel your pain and frustration but I also smile at your humor in it all. Jay's "teeth" and that you had one unplastered finger left . I really love your sheer enjoyment in your birds even though they may have you at the end of your tether

 

[Welshanne]

my five birds have different routines on being free, one Grey is mostly out on her own as Scooby would pick a fight with her own shadow.
All three Greys, two African and one Timneh are very singular in their approach to life. They are only interested in being with me and in their own living space. Never ever approach jay's cage or Chaz's as it does not interest them. No idea why that is.
they are only ever out with one to one supervision and that is only due to the fact they do literally live with us and we value our posessions and want them to last!
Jay and Chaz were let out together last night, as it was more than obvious that is what they both wanted. They preened each other non stop and sat like a pair of bookends on their stand perch quite happily, but come time for bed, what a song and dance that was. they had no intention of going into their cages, so tomorrow they come out separately.
Chaz is the easiest to get back in and that was managed fine.
jay on the other hand decided he was staying out on top of his cage.
So he was completely ignored and the rest wheeled off to their room for the night and covered.
On getting back to the sittingroom, now very empty bar one stubborn Blue front, sitting like a fluffy blob ontop of his cage, Jay decided he had made his point and stepped up and went in like a lamb. I am going to be snow white by Xmas! Suppose that is better than salt and pepper look as now!

 

[Welshanne]

Just have to post this bit of news.
This morning was the day I contacted Jay's old owner to give her an update on how her birds are, and to ask how she is coping with her chemotherapy.
she was feeling well enough to meet my request and talk to jay over the phone, just to see if he remembered her or had any reaction to the sound of her voice.
Bearing in mind he has been away from her for about nearly six months, I would not have believed the reaction we did witness.
Jay looked like a drown rat from his recent shower and came over to see me on his perch.Soon as he heard her voice talking to him he tried to climb into the phone through the bars of his cage. Kept saying hullo, hullo and making the baby noises he makes when happy. When I took the phone back and told her the reaction she said she could hear it from her end and it made her laugh.
He is now talking away quite happily, does not look his usual sad self and had perked up no end. If that is what it takes we are going to let him keep in touch with his "mum" as often as it is necessary. You live and learn.

 

[Coliephile]

Glad to hear it made Jay happy to hear his owner's voice. I have clients who ask me to call them at times while I'm visiting their birds and put the phone on speaker so they can say hello to their fids. You can definitely tell they recognize their owners' voices.

 

[Welshanne]

He has been a different bird today and interacting with us all, being quite happy and perky. Something I have not seen in all the time he has been with us, just sitting quietly and watching and listening to all that is going on around him.
I have been working and sitting right by the side of his cage and had little "hullo's" all afternoon it is heartwarming. Think we are at the next level.