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What parrot to get!

Riyam

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If i confused anyone who can't be bothered with my complicated essays and can easily assume things, you can just ignore this. But i geniunly came to this site to educate myself and for the most part I have had a lot of help which I appreciate. If this is mental gymnastics I'm sorry, you can choose not to read if it gives you any irritation. If you want to help my journey then I'd love that. Just needed to get that out of the way. I'm worried this is going to end up in a chain of people randomly hating on me and cancelling me and if that is the case I'll leave now.
Thanks
It's completely understandable that it is confusing. It isn't the traditional way of having birds, but it could still work which is why I'm here to learn because nobody on here I believe has ever done this while it is very common for people living in my region. Which is why it's a bit more confusing to you guys because you are city people when people here do it all the time and do have carers for farms.
 

tka

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I don't know how much more of a consensus you need. Everyone on this thread has expressed concerns that your hypothetical birds won't get the necessary interaction with people to remain interested in becoming or remaining friends with people. Birds are going to find it easier and more rewarding to be friends with other birds; they understand each other in a way that humans can't. As humans, we have to think very carefully about what we're bringing to the relationship: why would a bird want to be friends with us? What is valuable about our companionship? Both human and bird have to do a huge amount of work to understand each other, and even then we make mistakes. This kind of inter-species communication is hard for everyone concerned. If a parrot has a choice in whether it makes friends with another parrot of the same species or a human, in most (but not all) cases it's going to choose the other parrot.

A bird in an aviary with another bird that it's friends with it going to have a lot of its companionship needs met: it has someone it eats with, naps with, plays with, preens. If the birds are pair-bonded, then they understand each other in a way that humans cannot. You can persuade them to accept you as a member of their flock through spending a lot of time with them and joining in flock activities like eating when they do. If I had an aviary, I'd set up a chair and desk and work inside the aviary itself just so I could be around them and put in that time.

If a human isn't spending time with them and really putting in the work to becoming part of the flock, then they're simply not going to need what you, sporadically, offer.

If the birds don't get on and fight, then you have a different problem. Birds can do serious damage to each other - even kill each other. In the wild, they have room to move away from each other and they have other parrots to spend time with. In an aviary, they're forced together and cannot escape each other. The equivalent is having a human that you don't get on with at work. If you have a big enough workplace, you can happily arrange your working life to reduce having to spend time around them. It wuld be very different if you had to share a house.

I sincerely hope that you heed this advice. I do not like your insults or assumptions about me. However, I'm genuinely concerned for any birds that end up under your care and it's out of concern for them that I'm responding to this thread.
 

Feather

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Hi. Not here to cancel you. Please know I'm writing this without judgement and I apologize in advance if anything I write here comes off wrong.

I worked full time at a mixed species aviary. I thought it was a dream job and then I realized how much of a nightmare it really was.
I saw a lot of bloodshed and death. I also saw a lot of bonded pairs who didn't care about humans at all.

@tka is right. What you describe is a situation removed from reality. That is not intended as an insult towards you, it is merely a reflection on the fact that parrots are extremely complex animals who don't often tolerate anyone outside of their own species - avian or human. To forge and maintain a bond outside their normal tendencies requires consistency, and a LOT of it.

My own bonded pairs absolutely prefer to spend time with each other over me, and it does take work to maintain a relationship with them! I'm pretty well convinced that the only reason my parrots give me the time of day at all is because I'm with them almost constantly, passively spending time in the same room day in and day out. But with the setup of a remote aviary? You won't be living with them. You won't be part of their flock. That's really all there is to it.

I hope the hired help loves birds. Because if they do bond, it will be with that person.
:yes:

My boss was absolutely shocked that I was able to pet what she believed to be a perfectly wild eleonora cockatoo. :rolleyes: Almost as if spending time with the birds makes all the difference...
 

Riyam

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I don't know how much more of a consensus you need. Everyone on this thread has expressed concerns that your hypothetical birds won't get the necessary interaction with people to remain interested in becoming or remaining friends with people. Birds are going to find it easier and more rewarding to be friends with other birds; they understand each other in a way that humans can't. As humans, we have to think very carefully about what we're bringing to the relationship: why would a bird want to be friends with us? What is valuable about our companionship? Both human and bird have to do a huge amount of work to understand each other, and even then we make mistakes. This kind of inter-species communication is hard for everyone concerned. If a parrot has a choice in whether it makes friends with another parrot of the same species or a human, in most (but not all) cases it's going to choose the other parrot.

A bird in an aviary with another bird that it's friends with it going to have a lot of its companionship needs met: it has someone it eats with, naps with, plays with, preens. If the birds are pair-bonded, then they understand each other in a way that humans cannot. You can persuade them to accept you as a member of their flock through spending a lot of time with them and joining in flock activities like eating when they do. If I had an aviary, I'd set up a chair and desk and work inside the aviary itself just so I could be around them and put in that time.

If a human isn't spending time with them and really putting in the work to becoming part of the flock, then they're simply not going to need what you, sporadically, offer.

If the birds don't get on and fight, then you have a different problem. Birds can do serious damage to each other - even kill each other. In the wild, they have room to move away from each other and they have other parrots to spend time with. In an aviary, they're forced together and cannot escape each other. The equivalent is having a human that you don't get on with at work. If you have a big enough workplace, you can happily arrange your working life to reduce having to spend time around them. It wuld be very different if you had to share a house.

I sincerely hope that you heed this advice. I do not like your insults or assumptions about me. However, I'm genuinely concerned for any birds that end up under your care and it's out of concern for them that I'm responding to this thread.
I read the first lines and you literally ignored EVERYTHING I said. I am not going to do circle arguments and I might leave now. I might be sensitive or whatever but my feelings are hurt not by critism (which everyone gave me respectfully) but by the rudeness (attitude) you have.
 
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Mizzely

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@Riyam I'm sorry if you feel attacked. You want a consensus that may not be reached. It may be a cultural difference. What set up did you have when you had your bond with your African Grey?
 

CallieCadmoor

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@Riyam

Okay! Here to jump on the band wagon whoo!
After reading through this thread twice, I would like to summarize:

All birds bite, big beak, small beak, weird beak. Some bite worse than others (my one lovebird attempted to give ear, nose and lip piercings back when he was younger and my sparrow has a beak designed to kill bugs - my fingers will attest to this) and it appears to have a lot to do with where you get bitten and how upset the bird is.
Following the biting thread, birds are extremely unpredictable, it is in their nature. They are also prey animals and biting is their protection when they can't fly away. However, with enough interaction, learning your birds body language will allow you to know when you're pushing your luck and when to back off. Respecting your bird's boundaries is essential and is something many of us don't do on occasion (although we are quickly reminded).

On choosing a species, I highly recommend reading the good, the bad and the ugly threads under each section. It is extremely enlightening as it's first hand experience from our members.

Keeping birds of different species in an enclosured area has next to no happy stories. From my personal view, birds are just like humans when it comes to getting on or not with other birds. Sometimes personalities are just too different. While we cannot place birds into personality boxes, some species are more prone to certain traits. And for this reason, same specie cohabitation is recommended, especially for companionship if they don't get regular human interaction (hours - and I mean hours - of daily interaction). This interaction includes eating together, sitting next to each other (I read or do my assignments with my birds), caring for and physically playing with (if the bird is inclined). But that doesn't mean putting any old birds in the aviary together.
I know way too many cases where people just got a new lovebird and shoved them into the cage with another lovebird and it ended in blood, guts and tears. It has taken me nearly 3 months (1 month quarantine) to introduce my 2 lovebirds together and only yesterday evening did I put them in the same cage.

Space is essential. Birds need to be able to have their own space, territory if you will, so that they can have downtime. Having several feeding dishes and drinking dishes, perches for easy access and toys will be necessary (I recommend the same height for these so that there's no fighting over the better dish/perch/toy). As well as a huge amount of foraging and other sorts of game to keep them mentally stimulated

I saw in another thread where you mentioned you live in Kuwait. And as you mentioned here, you get high temperatures (I use degrees celcius but I do know the anything pushing 90 Fahrenheit is not going to be a jersey and hot chocolate sort of day). Everyone that I know of or befriended who have parrots in the Middle East have told me they would never keep their birds outside permanently. They all have an indoor space regulated with air cons for their birds. I understand that you said you know many people who keeps parrots in a aviary on farmland. I would suggest asking them how they keep their birds cool. Things like automised soft spray sprinklers (misters), tons of drinking water and cool shade (I say cool because sometimes shade is only a cover from the sun and is hotter than being in the direct sun).
I have spent time in the Middle East as well. And I can tell you right now with the heat, I only ever saw birds (or any sort of animal life) near people where there were water fountains or pools, buildings with spots to hide in. I could walk outside my house right now (South Africa) and even though we are currently experiencing a heatwave, will find more bird life in my garden than I did the entirity of the time I was in the Middle East (will specify that I was in Abu Dhabi and Dubai).
So from your comments, I believe it can be done but it will not be easy and will require effort and a lot of work. I'm sure you are capable.

Double check your aviary. There is the comment on what an aviary needs by @Toy. I would ensure your aviary fits into their guidelines. Predators, escapees, wings or toes getting caught, weather (heat, lack there of and sand storms, etc) : all things you will need to proof against.

Diet is also important. You said your dad/ a farmhand will be in charge of feedings watering and cleaning, correct? Please ensure that they then feed the bird(s) correctly. There are many threads here on diet. Birds cannot live off of seed alone and some seeds are worse than others. A diet consisting of vegetables, pellets, some fruit and seed. It is obviously dependent on the species as to the ratios of these the birds need.

Also, take note of your nearest avian vet. A birds health is important. Personally, and I know most others here, take their birds for yearly checkups. Vets are expensive so make sure you put aside money for any emergency care.

I personally do not think anyone here has been outright rude. Avian Avenue is one of the few places where people put birds first. This is something so rare. I believe @tka and @macawpower58 did not mean any offense to you personally and they do really have a wealth of knowledge on birds and bird care.
From personal experience (I'm also going to assume you are around my age, young 20s), I was completely disillusioned about parrot care and what it entails. I got Eros when I was 17. I had spent 2 years researching lovebirds before I got him. And my word, was I living in lala land. Birds are like toddlers except they never grow up. They are loud, they are messy, they get bored, they throw tantrums, they demand attention (even if it's not physical interaction), they are sooooo ridiculously smart even if we don't recognize it (my lovebirds have more personality than many people I have met, even my sparrow proves better company than a lot of people), they need mental and physical stimulation, they have feelings (not human ones per se but feelings that affect them as much as ours affect us). I became a mom essentially.

You should ask yourself why you want a bird as well. I think anyone who wants a bird should. If anyone has the answer be for your own enjoyment to which it disregards the needs of the bird, I recommend these people avoid getting a bird
 

Mizzely

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Someone I watch on Instagram posted this video of her bird room.

http://instagr.am/p/CGiVzszHRB5/
These birds are same species and same size and still inflicted damage to each other very quickly.
 

Zara

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These birds are same species and same size and still inflicted damage to each other very quickly.
I honestly think, if I left the room with hormonal Adelie and Aldora out of their cages, one would kill the other.
And they are the same species, and mother & daughter.
I rarely let them out together anymore.
 

Karen

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It isn't the traditional way of having birds, but it could still work
As much as you would like to believe this, it simply is not true.
 

budgieluv3

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Sparkles99

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Mizzely, that's a beautiful bird room. Sad what went down in it.

I don't think anyone's trying to be mean. Nor do I think everyone on here is a city person/ grew up in the city. I didn't & some people here live way out in the boondocks.

I would like to gently suggest budgies again. You could get different colours & they seem more suited to what you envision. Though I don't know about what would happen if they felt like breeding...
 

Zara

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Though I don't know about what would happen if they felt like breeding...
The person assigned the task of feeding them would also have to take on the job of simply removing any eggs laid :)
 

Hankmacaw

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@Riyam You said that many people in your area have these combined species aviaries. Have you questioned them about how they choose the birds and if there are problems and what those problems are? I don't think that many, if any, owners here in the US have experience with mixed aviaries. We have more of a tendency to keep one, two or a few birds as companion birds and are attached to each individual bird.

I for one have never had a desire to have a "flock" (I had two GW macaws), because I pretty much centered my life around them and didn't have time or resources for more. As a result both of mine were my close buddies even though they were a mated pair. I think I mentioned that on occasion (not often at all) I would have to separate them when their arguments got too intense and I was afraid of injuries.

I am interested in how you eventually solve your issues.
 

macawpower58

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I also am wondering if you are wanting more a 'nature reserve' type setting than one for pet parrots.
That I can understand, and I'm sure if done correctly the birds would thrive.
Most of us here have pet parrots, so I doubt we'll be the best for giving advice on that scenario.
I also would enjoy seeing the finished project if you do find a safe way of keeping your birds.
 

Riyam

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Hi guys, thanks for being sweet... I think I’m going to have some thinking time and go down to pet stores and just chill with birds for a while and reflect. I read @tka ‘s first lines and thought the whole piece was going to just be an extension of the same thing so I couldn’t take it and took leave (I read what you said now and i’m glad it doesn’t carry on with the same vibe).

I will probably either spend lots of time with a pair of birds in an aviary, or if they reject me for not being there with them enough I’ll just accept that and still care for them and love them. I could get a species that isn’t as sensitive to companionship needs, but yh it all depends on what species i’d like that’s why I’m going to go chill with other people’s birds for a while and see what I like.
 

Riyam

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I’m curious, if the birds bond with each other and reject me does that mean they will act aggressive towards me? I wanted to consider free flying them but first harness training. Will it work?
 

Riyam

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I’m curious, if the birds bond with each other and reject me does that mean they will act aggressive towards me? I wanted to consider free flying them but first harness training. Will it work?
I know free flying may not work but still want to check your opinions. With chickens they always come back home and don’t tread far.
 

Zara

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I wanted to consider free flying them but first harness training. Will it work?
I don´t think it will be possible. You need an incredibly close bond to be able to free fly a parrot.
Harness training maybe, again you need a good bond and enough trust to be able to put the harness on. You can´t just put the harness on the bird, you have to get them to step into it. With frequent training it can be done for a lot of birds, though some will not accept the harness.
 

Riyam

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I don´t think it will be possible. You need an incredibly close bond to be able to free fly a parrot.
Harness training maybe, again you need a good bond and enough trust to be able to put the harness on. You can´t just put the harness on the bird, you have to get them to step into it. With frequent training it can be done for a lot of birds, though some will not accept the harness.
Tricky, okay... Thinking if I harness train them before they reject me so they know what it is like to fly outside. If they rejected me after it, would they still not think ‘I reject this person but I want to fly anyway’?
 
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macawpower58

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Yes, they'll want to fly, rejecting you or not. Problem is they just wont return.
They come back through the bond, and even a bond does not necessarily mean a safe return.
I've known several parrots who loved their people, yet still flew too far, too fast, and got lost.
Some luckily were found days/weeks later. Others not so lucky.

And harness training is not that easy.
My macaw would tolerate it, until he wouldn't.
Our last fight over that harness was bad. Much blood, mine. I lost.
 
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