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watery droppings during molting-- how much is normal?

GreenThing

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Merlin has grown in at least two of his missing flight feathers, dropped one tail feather, and has been shedding small feathers for almost more than a month. This week his head is especially prickly with pins (especially places that look uncomfortable, like around his eyes). His behavior hasn't changed at all since he started molting, but all day today he has been extra sleepy.

The sleepiness makes sense-- he wouldn't go back in his cage at bedtime, last night, and I ended up falling asleep with a closet light still on-- I'm sure that disturbed their sleep. But his droppings have been super watery all day-- there are distinct fecal and urates parts, but SUPER liquid. He was sleepy and irritable with Percy-- he went on top of the cage to nap while I was on my break.

I'm putting double seed in the cage to make sure he's getting enough (he is super resistant to trying new things and doesn't eat as much of the greens as Percy-- he wouldn't touch the seed when I added egg mash, either). Just wanted reassurance on how much of this behavior is normal for a first molt. In the weeks before this he was behaving exactly the same, so it's jarring to see him out of sorts. He doesn't seem to want Percy to preen him either, and he was avoiding a spray bath when usually he'd enjoy it (neither have shown interest in shallow bowls, either, but I might get another Lixit bath, since that has an apparently magical attraction to the finches).
 

GreenThing

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Also: is it okay to let him sleep on top of the cage if he really wants his space and is comfortable up there?

I know the danger of sleeping in a room with a loose budgie, but neither bird can be tempted to land on my bed in the new space even with millet, and I leave a night light on and don't cover their cage all the way. I think he wants space away from Percy at this stage of his molt, but I'm worried getting a separate sleeping cage would stress him out... he was very obviously putting himself up there to nap and be alone.
 

Wardy

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I have no experience of that behaviour whilst my birds have been moulting @Ripshod will be able to advise

With regards to sleeping on top of the cage i would advise against this all he needs is to get startled and he will be off and could do himself a injury flying into a wall etc. i would be more worried leaving him out than putting him in another cage if he wants time alone.
 

GreenThing

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With regards to sleeping on top of the cage i would advise against this all he needs is to get startled and he will be off and could do himself a injury flying into a wall etc. i would be more worried leaving him out than putting him in another cage if he wants time alone.
Yeah, that makes sense to me-- I know some people keep their budgies completely cageless (if I worked from home and had my own apartment I would do this!), but in those cases the budgies still establish a "safe spot" to roost, and he hasn't ever slept outside his cage. At least he got to bed a little earlier tonight.
 

Ripshod

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Moulting is stressful and tiring for a budgie, polyuria (excess urine) is a symptom of stress. So yes that's normal. Every bird is different so watery poops could become the norm for Merlin as it is for my Goldie. Do they not preen each other? I would have expected Percy to help him out with the pinnies around his head.
Sleeping out of the cage for such a small bird is dangerous. No matter how much they avoid your bed during the day if they get spooked at night there's no way to say where he'll end up. There's no way to guarantee it'll wake you either.
We've had a lot of very sad stories regarding this and some lucky scares too. If you have to towel him into a cage so be it.
 
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GreenThing

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Moulting is stressful and tiring for a budgie, polyuria (excess urine) is a symptom of stress. So yes that's normal. Every bird is different so watery poops could become the norm for Merlin as it is for my Goldie. Do they not preen each other? I would have expected Percy to help him out with the pinnies around his head.
Yes, I begin every day now by saying, "Percy, I would have expected you to help out with this!" :dead: From the little I've seen (I HATE being at work when things aren't copacetic), Merlin won't let Percy preen him. The past few days he won't even let Percy near him. I think I saw Percy gently going for the area around his beak, this afternoon, and Merlin growled and reared back. Percy was actually standing with his wings folded a bit raised, like he was on the defensive? Less surprisingly, Merlin doesn't want scritches, either (I gave his noggin a gentle touch while he was eating a treat and he was not interested). When I stop by he interacts for a bit and then goes back to sleep, although he was singing into his wing feathers when I left.

I took some pictures and video in case someone here sees something I don't:

20210917_114056.jpg 20210917_114102.jpg 20210917_114012.jpg


He's gripping this very tiny perch, here, and I thought his rocking motion was normal balancing, but I want to make sure this doesn't qualify as tail-bobbing. He hasn't been panting or clicking and was singing (even in this position) a few times.
 

Ripshod

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The poops (other than the splat from the extra urine) and the rocking look completely normal. Seeing his pinnies anyone would understand why he's down.
Will he bathe or accept a shower/spray?
 

GreenThing

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The poops (other than the splat from the extra urine) and the rocking look completely normal.
Oh, thank you :sad11:

Will he bathe or accept a shower/spray?
He won't! And what's baffling is that he usually LOVES a spray bath, if I get the water as hot as possible. I've tried twice this week, and each time he went scrambling to the other side of the cage. I put their greens in wet, and saw him rubbing on them once a week or so ago, but nothing since. He so obviously needs relief, but he just doesn't want anyone or anything to touch him! He will come stand next to my mouth when I sing and go to sleep, but that's the only comfort I've been able to give the poor guy. All I can think of is getting another of those Lixit clip-on baths, to see if that shape and depth has a magic effect.
 

Wardy

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Oh, thank you :sad11:



He won't! And what's baffling is that he usually LOVES a spray bath, if I get the water as hot as possible. I've tried twice this week, and each time he went scrambling to the other side of the cage. I put their greens in wet, and saw him rubbing on them once a week or so ago, but nothing since. He so obviously needs relief, but he just doesn't want anyone or anything to touch him! He will come stand next to my mouth when I sing and go to sleep, but that's the only comfort I've been able to give the poor guy. All I can think of is getting another of those Lixit clip-on baths, to see if that shape and depth has a magic effect.
Could colder water be more relieving ? One of mine go's under the cold water tap the other in her drinking bowl at room temp.
Mine are conures so different birds but maybe the warmer water isnt relieving.
 

GreenThing

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Could colder water be more relieving ? One of mine go's under the cold water tap the other in her drinking bowl at room temp.
Mine are conures so different birds but maybe the warmer water isnt relieving.
I could try this! I used to use cooler/room temp water and he hated it (the first time he took a spray bath was when I used HOT water, so I've only ever used that since). I might steal the finches' Lixit bath and give it a good scrub with F10 and try that before bed.
 

Ripshod

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Could colder water be more relieving ?
Your theory is sound. In the wild colder water is generally cleaner/fresher so they'll choose that over warmer water. There's always the exception.
 

Wardy

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Your theory is sound. In the wild colder water is generally cleaner/fresher so they'll choose that over warmer water. There's always the exception.
As we get into the winter in the UK i will add some warm water to the cold tap water as it will be ice cold so will not do any good for Mojo as it would be baltic wont do me or my wife any good either as she likes to stand on the back of our hand whilst she is getting her tap shower.
 
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