Greylady1966
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He's so beautiful.
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Walking the walk (with MC) **UPDATE**
- Thread starter Clueless
- Start date
He's looking good & enjoying some good time... If he's over 40 then maybe he should enjoy the time he has left rather than to die under the knife or exposed to drastic procedures that could kill him or make his last days miserable...
Well imho chemo if its spread will only buy time & chemo is no fun & comes with its own risks so he could succumb to those before the tumor. A bird is so small & its hard even in a human to get the dose right.
It sounds evasive whatever it is & surgery sounds like its got a 75% chance he does not make it thru it & if he does who knows how much time it will buy him if its cancer it won;t be much. They did not do well with the first surgery so I would hesitate to even think of a 2nd. Radiation well if they can get some in with a needle targeted if there is such a thing but don;t see it working with blood vessels that much. If its in the blood it all over anyway so no way to target it locally.
You can just get all the medical advise & make the best decision for him. I don't recall but what is this tumor doing? How is it effecting his daily life?
Well imho chemo if its spread will only buy time & chemo is no fun & comes with its own risks so he could succumb to those before the tumor. A bird is so small & its hard even in a human to get the dose right.
It sounds evasive whatever it is & surgery sounds like its got a 75% chance he does not make it thru it & if he does who knows how much time it will buy him if its cancer it won;t be much. They did not do well with the first surgery so I would hesitate to even think of a 2nd. Radiation well if they can get some in with a needle targeted if there is such a thing but don;t see it working with blood vessels that much. If its in the blood it all over anyway so no way to target it locally.
You can just get all the medical advise & make the best decision for him. I don't recall but what is this tumor doing? How is it effecting his daily life?
Yes, the red patch...Gosh...couldn't they just take a small biopsy of the external? I might have missed it but no real diagnosis? Least it would be helpful to know. Still they really don't know everything. Even with me they had no answers but they tell me its out so not to worry about what kind it was or how I got it. That's a really strange tumor with such a blood supply growing out of the skin. I suppose anything with its own blood supply is not good. What about this? Sounds like it,,,not cancer
orthoinfo.aaos.org
Hemangioma - OrthoInfo - AAOS
A hemangioma is a noncancerous tumor made up of blood vessels. There are many types of hemangiomas, and most occur on the surface of the skin or just beneath it. They often develop on the face and neck, and can vary greatly in color, shape, and size.
orthoinfo.aaos.org
Macawnutz
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If this were me I'd have to know what I was up against before making decisions. I would have a biopsy and most likely would have the CT scan.
Yes, MC is old but I'm imagining right now if this were Sakie. I'd go down fighting without a doubt. Sakie is 63, Rosie made it to 78. Rosie had quite a few bumps in the road near that end that required surgery and none of which took her life.
Either way we stand by you, just giving my opinions.
Yes, MC is old but I'm imagining right now if this were Sakie. I'd go down fighting without a doubt. Sakie is 63, Rosie made it to 78. Rosie had quite a few bumps in the road near that end that required surgery and none of which took her life.
Either way we stand by you, just giving my opinions.
Hankmacaw
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MC really is a beauty and looks as healthy as a horse. Like Jasper he is healthy except for that one darned tumor.
I know you are struggling with what to do, but for what it is worth (not knowing everything), thor is is what I would do.
1. Get a CT scan or MRI done. Which ever will define the tumor best and it's environments best.
2. Get a biopsy and histology performed.
He won't suffer a bit, he will be nighty nite.
3. Have the Dr. perform a protein electrophoresis, which is a big test for cancer and several other diseases. That is done with a blood sample that can betaken when he's under for the biopsy.
These tests should give a very good definition of the size and scope of the "Thing" and whether is is malignant or benign. From there you should know the direction to take. If it is palliative care - so be it, but maybe you will determine that there is something to extend his life comfortably. You know that 45 or 50 is not terribly old for an Amazon.
I just don't give up easy and definitely not until I have the information to make an informed decision. It hurts me to see everyone just write MC off without the full scope of the "Thing."
I know you are struggling with what to do, but for what it is worth (not knowing everything), thor is is what I would do.
1. Get a CT scan or MRI done. Which ever will define the tumor best and it's environments best.
2. Get a biopsy and histology performed.
He won't suffer a bit, he will be nighty nite.
3. Have the Dr. perform a protein electrophoresis, which is a big test for cancer and several other diseases. That is done with a blood sample that can betaken when he's under for the biopsy.
These tests should give a very good definition of the size and scope of the "Thing" and whether is is malignant or benign. From there you should know the direction to take. If it is palliative care - so be it, but maybe you will determine that there is something to extend his life comfortably. You know that 45 or 50 is not terribly old for an Amazon.
I just don't give up easy and definitely not until I have the information to make an informed decision. It hurts me to see everyone just write MC off without the full scope of the "Thing."
I apologize if my response was unclear as I was not writing him off but the choices given & there rate of success as I understood them is what my feelings were based on. All I was trying to say is I would not do a 25% survival surgery before knowing what & where this thing was.
I suppose I thought they did a some imaging to see extent before the surgery & I'm now questioning why they did surgery in the first place if they went in blind on possible cancer.
First thing should be imaging so you have an idea what you are going into. 2nd would be to try to get a biopsy & if its appearing on the skin they could have tested that without surgery.
The thing I looked up is not cancer but it can get be a problem depending on where it grows into. They even mentioned that sometimes these things shrink on there own.
So it would be good to try to know what MC is dealing with & surgery again was said to be 25% survival so all other means of id should have been given & I can't even fathom why they did surgery without imaging or biopsy as its not good to do it when you don't know anything about its extent or what it is as it can cause it to break off & make matters worse.
I am not a Oncologist or surgeon as most of us are not but I spoke from my experience & tried to say everything before & surgery last... especially in light of the first & the surgeons comments about any additional surgery. Why they did surgery in the first place I don;t know all the facts or details but from what I have read I am questioning that decision.
I suppose I thought they did a some imaging to see extent before the surgery & I'm now questioning why they did surgery in the first place if they went in blind on possible cancer.
First thing should be imaging so you have an idea what you are going into. 2nd would be to try to get a biopsy & if its appearing on the skin they could have tested that without surgery.
The thing I looked up is not cancer but it can get be a problem depending on where it grows into. They even mentioned that sometimes these things shrink on there own.
So it would be good to try to know what MC is dealing with & surgery again was said to be 25% survival so all other means of id should have been given & I can't even fathom why they did surgery without imaging or biopsy as its not good to do it when you don't know anything about its extent or what it is as it can cause it to break off & make matters worse.
I am not a Oncologist or surgeon as most of us are not but I spoke from my experience & tried to say everything before & surgery last... especially in light of the first & the surgeons comments about any additional surgery. Why they did surgery in the first place I don;t know all the facts or details but from what I have read I am questioning that decision.
Clueless
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Thanks to all who have responded.
I'm still struggling to determine what path to take. I know that nothing can be done for 30 days from the date of his initial surgery because of the blood loss.
@camelotshadow the first surgery was for what was considered a a common tumor, a lipoma if you will. My vet is experienced at bird surgeries and is used by many here in St. Louis and has done a lot of them. He felt it was in a great place for a good outcome.
A biopsy wasn't taken because of the blood loss. As soon as an incision was made, the only way to stop it was pressure. He was using good equipment (radio/laser?) and it didn't cauterize the wound. He tried a second avenue in and couldn't get around it. My worry is trying to get a biopsy will start the bleeding again.
@Hankmacaw thank you. From the depths of my heart, thank you.
@Macawnutz thanks for being there for us. I'll probably drop you a pm in a day or two.
I'm still struggling to determine what path to take. I know that nothing can be done for 30 days from the date of his initial surgery because of the blood loss.
@camelotshadow the first surgery was for what was considered a a common tumor, a lipoma if you will. My vet is experienced at bird surgeries and is used by many here in St. Louis and has done a lot of them. He felt it was in a great place for a good outcome.
A biopsy wasn't taken because of the blood loss. As soon as an incision was made, the only way to stop it was pressure. He was using good equipment (radio/laser?) and it didn't cauterize the wound. He tried a second avenue in and couldn't get around it. My worry is trying to get a biopsy will start the bleeding again.
@Hankmacaw thank you. From the depths of my heart, thank you.
@Macawnutz thanks for being there for us. I'll probably drop you a pm in a day or two.
Decisions are not my long suit either. Wait the 30 days, gleen all possible knowledge you can get before making any decisive decisions. MC looks wonderful, as long as you are not seeing pain, infection or discomfort, then go with your gut. One step at a time.
So do they think a scraping of the skin/tissue externally will cause this bleeding? Can MC get to that area with feet or beak as to start this bleeding? Sounds like an experienced vet/surgeon. Is that tumor on the skin or under?
Just trying to help & no way to really know anything just from descriptions. You will have to have confidence & trust in the vet.
What about the hemangioma it really sounds like it could be. Did he mention it? That can bleed alot but it seems that can shrink & go away with time. So if its that it should be ok. Seems it is under the skin & the skin is said to be thinner so that area would be more fragile.
Really hope its something manageable...
Just trying to help & no way to really know anything just from descriptions. You will have to have confidence & trust in the vet.
What about the hemangioma it really sounds like it could be. Did he mention it? That can bleed alot but it seems that can shrink & go away with time. So if its that it should be ok. Seems it is under the skin & the skin is said to be thinner so that area would be more fragile.
Really hope its something manageable...
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(((Clueless))) it's going to be hard, but know your never ever alone when you got all us loones on here @ 1, 2, 3 am & then the morning crew between 4 & 6 am. I'm always here if you need an ear/eye just PM me. I wish I could be more help! Cyber hugs never convey the full emotion of the sender.
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MC looks so happy there. 
No advice, but sending you both hugs. 
No advice, but sending you both hugs. 
ncGreyBirdLady
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SandraK
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I've walked this walk with a cat named Mischief Squawk aka Squawk because of her voice. She developed an aggressive form of cancer in her sinuses and the specialist vet told me that I could try chemo but it would make her miserable and really wouldn't do anything to improve her health or condition. I kept her with me as long as I could until I knew it was time to help her cross Rainbow Bridge.
Give MC all your love and attention which I'm sure you're already doing and celebrate every day you have him. Think about where he'd be if he weren't with you.
Give MC all your love and attention which I'm sure you're already doing and celebrate every day you have him. Think about where he'd be if he weren't with you.
