(Update #23) Does anyone here have experience with Corvids? I will be getting a Corvus albicollis.

[KimKim]

Ok last off topic question... How will I know when it's ready for soaked kibble?

 

[miss maggi]

A mother just knows these things I would say judging from the size and feathering greedy guts is about there now. He knows you're the food source. Soak it in some water and a bit of fruit juice - they like sweet treats - after it's soft mush it up to make a paste and pop a glop in his mouth. He will swallow.

How often are you feeding? I will always put out some kibble for the watchers, kinda lets them know you are a good provider.

 

[KimKim]

It seems like I'm feeding twice and hour He is so demanding and hungry! I'll get some kibble and juice tomorrow. I put out some dried cat food the neighbor gave me to see if he would peck at it, but he didn't. He does sleep through the night, and when we wake up around 7-8, I cane hear him screaming for food. And if I leave the house for a couple hours, it's as if he hadn't eaten in days I keep saying he, but I don't really know.

 

[miss maggi]

Demanding and insatiable....has to be a he!

Hopefully the kibble and/or added pablum will fill him up better.

 

[CatsNbirds]

So, on to chapter 17!

Thank you, very very much for chapter 17 . I will be adding chapter 18... or 18 to 21 .

Anklets and jesses. If you got the ones Daniel makes they're very good.

I will be ordering two set's of them . My first question is: should I order them now, or wait till I get my specimen? I am asking because, "I do not want the leather to go bad".

The heavy suede wears well and the grommets are secure.

Glad to hear they are "well made".

Easy to trace and make a pattern. Leather can be purchased from Tandy Leather shops and often fabric shops will have small remnants.

Yet again, thank you, very very much for that information.

Black is the recommended color as it is less bothersome to the bird. I get about 6 months out of a pair before having to replace them. They get stiff from all that bathing. Remember I leave them on 24/7 and like I said, Corvus thinks they're part of him. He grooms his jesses when he grooms himself. He makes sure to give each side a pull or two as he's doing his tail.

1) While I red and pink, I do not want to bother my Corvus albicollis. So, I have NO problem using black .
2) If you get approximately 6 months per pair, then I might just buy them . Since, I am not good at DIY.
3) That is so cool that your Hybrid Raven is so used to the jesses. His way of "grooming them" is so so cute, IMHO.

The shock cord jesses are great as they do not wrap around perches etc. so very little danger of the bird getting caught up anywhere if he gets loose.

The shock cord jesses are the ones sold by Winding Woods Ranch, correct?

Just tie a knot on the inside once they're threaded through and the bird will not be able to pull them out.

Okay, thank you and I will most definitely do that !!!!

The back pack I use is the pak-o-bird (please google it) Very expensive but as we use it almost daily worth it to me. We use the medium as it was the largest my bird store carries. The perch is a little too far forward for him but it works none the less. Getting him in is easy, open the hatch and say get in there. He hops in on his own and turns round as I zip it shut so he can 'look out the window'.

Thank you for giving me the name, as it was very easy to find. If this is the site, please let me know: Celltei Pak-o-Bird - the high quality light-weight carrier for your birds and parrots If you would recommend another size, and that assumes that I can acquire it, would you recommend any of the following sizes: "Grey", "ML", and or "Large"?

We have had no issues with sights and sounds of the city he just takes it all in an seems to take everything in stride. As long as I'm calm he's calm.

That is so cool, that your bird is so calm. The last part, sounds almost like a Canis lupus familiaris. Again, this is why I would rather have a Corvid then a Psittaciformes.

If it's a longer bus ride and I have a seat I will hold the pack on my lap and keep a hand inside to keep him occupied so he doesn't vocalize too much. He will not vocalize if the pack is on the floor by my feet.

Thank you, for all that pertinent information . Again, your Corvid sounds just amazing.

The dogs and Corvus have an understanding. They are a Chihuahua and a Chinese Crested, he is a Crow almost their size. He likes hopping after them and nipping at their butts. They like sitting near him when he eats. The dogs have a healthy respect for beaks of all sizes.

Ahhh... I understand now. The only interactions I have seen between Crows and Ravens, are on YouTube and they are with much larger Canis lupus familiaris. It looks cute. Your dogs, based on there physical size, seem "wise" for having a healthy respect for Corvus. In America, certain sized Corvids cool servery injure a "properly bred" Chihuahua.

Taking Corvus out on the arm with a leash or harness is usually uneventful. He will occasionally bate (fly off) but for the most part he is content to sit and just watch the world go by.

The more I hear about these birds, the happier I am for making the decision I made . Thank you, for teaching me what the word bate means, in this context.

If he does bate I just let him dangle upside down til he's ready to right himself. Sounds and likely looks cruel but that's what you do. He will dangle a few seconds then he gives a flap and is right side up on the arm and ready to carry on.

Thank you for that part, so so so much! I would be worried that: A) I would be hurting my specimen and B) that it is cruel. So, thank you, very very very much . My only question is this: can he possibly brake his hip? By possible, in this case, I mean highly probable.

If he bates in the house or in the yard I will some times get my free hand under him and cradle him like a baby.

Aww...that is so cute . Does he like that? Or, does that help "stop" the bating behavior?

This is something I've seen others do and it makes me chuckle. We're working on training this so I can give a command and have him laying on his back in my hand like my Hawk Head does. He is actually laying down to play with toys now so is comfortable with the position.

A) It is amazing how easy it is to train a Corvid.
B) You are an amazing trainer.
C) Watching him happily play with toys, in that position is too cute, IMHO.

His natural voice is a deep gravely ah-ah. He now say hello, hey there, good bird, he laughs, barks and makes kissy noises, think he also says a'hole but its not clear and I think if that's what he's saying we'll keep it as it's darn cute! He mostly talks when he's outside so I assume that's where he's most comfortable.

He sounds like he has a very good vocabulary. I have heard that Corvids do not speak around there owner. Apparently, that is not always the case....YAY! Second, I completely agree with your assumption about his comfort level.

I wanted the pied crow as I've always loved corvids. Have 'rescued' and released many a baby and sickly, broken winged individuals but always released them or they perished. When I found out I could legally obtain and keep a pied crow, I needed one.

I got you now and I can COMPLETELY relate to your point of view/feelings.

Around here dogs and cats are boys and birds are females so it was to be a girl. We ended up with Corvus.

Okay, so it was based off personal preference. Not a behavioral aspect. Thank you, very very much.

He a big beautiful boy and I couldn't be happier. He's about 21 inches beak to tail, weighs just over 900 grams and has a monster huge thick raven beak. Unlike his white neck relatives his white feathering surrounds the entire neck, unlike the pied crows it does not extend down the chest. Just a perfect circle of white.

Your Corvus must look amazing. I was offered, what I assumed was a similar specimen and declined. I can post a picture and you can tell me if that is what Corvus looks like. I can tell you this, next year, I will take a male that looks like your Corvus !!!!

The beak is big.

That is what I found so cute/endearing about a pure Corvus albicollis. So, I am glad to hear that your specific hybrid has a big beak.

He will snap with the beak as a test but its a bluff usually reserved for those who hesitate when going to pet him.

Thank you, for that pertinent information.

He will take an offered finger in his beak and if he's in a mood will exert pressure much like a pair of pliers.

This leads me to several questions, I know that is nothing new . A) I was told, that a Corvid could not really hurt you, unless it went for your eye. I guess that is not exactly correct. B) If does a bite, like above, will he leave you a black and blue? Or, what type of physical "injury" can he cause human flesh?

If he's feeling sweet he will hold the finger gently and accept kisses while tasting the finger with his tongue.

Awe, that is so so cute .

If he wants to hurt (this has only happened to me twice) he will use the very tip of that beak and grab the skin and give it a twist while pulling back. It sends a pretty clear message.

Yes, I would bet that is a very clear message. Glad, he does not do that often .

I've had the computer for less time than the crow. Have plenty of pictures in the camera but need help to get them in the computer and then to find out how to post them. That will have to be another day.

I got you now. If you can get them off the camera, I can post them for you, if you wanted.

I completely agree. Like I said, I have one photo, I can add. But, it will be a year until I get my specimen .

Sorry if you've posted this before, but what kind of cage do you have Corvus in?

Thank you, for posting that question. Since, I was going to ask .

And what did you feed the baby crows you raised?

While, I do not have any "hands on" information that I can provide you, I do have two post's that might help: Looking for information on hand feeding a Corvid. Specifically a Corvus albicollis/White-Necked Rave | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum and How to feed omnivorous Corvids in captivity...your thoughts please? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum .

Don't mean to high jack this thread either.... Sorry

It is great, that joined the conversation. I am very glad .

No highjack. Everyone's welcome.

I completely agree !

I've been following yours quietly. For crow babies I did the same as you but with dog food watered down at first then thickened with some pabulum til they're ready for a bit of soaked dog food (kibble). Higher protein in the kibble.

Would you mind explaining to me, what you mean by pabulum, in this context?

Corvus is housed in a Maccaw cage while I'm at work 4x3x6 and he has a small aviary outside, he usually hangs out on his tether line on the lawn unless I'm back and forth or I find it to cold to sit out with him.

Thank you, for that information . Just a few more questions: what do you keep in his cage, when he is in it? I.E.: toys, perches, food dishes, etc?

 

[miss maggi]

You can likely wait on purchasing the anklets/jesses. I doubt the leather will 'go bad' but as I told you I ended up on the waiting list for three seasons before Corvus came home.

The medium pak-o-bird is quite bulky to carry as it is. A larger size would become a nuisance very quickly.The only trouble we have is that the perch sits a little too far back. Perches can be moved up and down but not back to front in these. It's a bit of a tight fit and if I win the lottery I'll have one custom made but this one serves the purpose even if his tail gets a bit ratty.

It's very unlikely your bird will injure himself by bating. The shock cord is elastic and that helps make it a gentle ride. A few time when he's been tethered in the yard the end was too close to the fence and rather than landing on the fence he went over. This is why we always have to be there! Those few times I've had to run over and rescue him, he just hangs there and waits. Kinda like a dead chicken, no obvious panic or concern from him. Wierdo!

Times like those is when I started trying to cradle him like baby. He's hanging there all compliant anyway. He allows me to touch him all over, under wings on belly, tail, feet everywhere. We started that right from the beginning. Laying on the floor playing with toys sounds cute but it's dangerous in reality. The first time I saw it a couple weeks ago I thought he was ill!

It was evening and I was just zoning out. I could hear him making the noise that I assume is my name (yes they do name their people) but was not paying too much attention, he kept calling and I was only 4 feet away. When I finally looked up there he was laying on his side with a small plastic basket held in one foot, calling and calling. Not desperate screaming quiet calling. ah-ah-ha. Thinking he was dying I opened the cage and reached in my hand. He grabbed on to my finger in a death grip with both feet.
I slid a hand under him and realised one wing had slipped between the bars of the grate and he was stuck. I managed to lift him out gently and luckily no harm done. Any other bird would have struggled and broken its wing! Now there's a mesh over the grate to prevent further such incidents.

I've heard that males are more aggressive but since they don't reach maturity til at least 3 years old and I've no female to compare him to....
The very tip of the beak has a slight hook and can penetrate if they want. Just give them a mouse or chick and you can see it's meant for shredding skin. Good thing again that training a Corvid is much like training a dog. We started with 'gentle' and moved on to 'drop it'. He listens to both of these quite well. Drop it works for things we're playing catch with, stolen items and fingers. Gentle is for fingers in the mouth or offering food.

For KimKim's baby Vador, I meant pablum as in baby food. It will leave baby feeling more full as well as add some more nutrition.

The cage in the house has a tree on one side ( a cherry branch trunk with 6 side branches of various woods that he can hop up like a spiral staircase. The other side has a shelf he can hop up to. We rotate his toys quite often as they get pooped on and destroyed regularly. A plastic basket on the floor of the cage is his toy box. He gets his food in a Stainless container and there are containers for caching and usually a face cloth he likes to use to cover his treasures. Across the top half of the cage is a rope perch that he uses for sleep and to swing on. Will be adding a swing soon as this is a fairly new discovery.

His outside set up is similar but with a real tree (dead) in the middle and lots of sticks rocks etc. for playing and hiding treasures, as well as his bathtub.

I hang baby toys like rattles and other toys from the branches and bars and he enjoys pecking at these for the sounds they make. We have a toy piano and a few other 'push the button to make noise' toys which he uses when he's got out of cage time in the house.

 

[CatsNbirds]

You can likely wait on purchasing the anklets/jesses. I doubt the leather will 'go bad' but as I told you I ended up on the waiting list for three seasons before Corvus came home.

I got ya now. Of course, you are very helpful and wise, as per usual. I guess, I will stick to buying plastic foraging toys, when they are on sale for now . Unless, you can think of something else .

The medium pak-o-bird is quite bulky to carry as it is. A larger size would become a nuisance very quickly.The only trouble we have is that the perch sits a little too far back. Perches can be moved up and down but not back to front in these. It's a bit of a tight fit and if I win the lottery I'll have one custom made but this one serves the purpose even if his tail gets a bit ratty.

O okay, I got you now. I am sorry for the confusion.

It's very unlikely your bird will injure himself by bating.

Alright, thank you for that information. As per usual, you have taught me something.

The shock cord is elastic and that helps make it a gentle ride.

Okay, thank you very very much for that information.

A few time when he's been tethered in the yard the end was too close to the fence and rather than landing on the fence he went over. This is why we always have to be there! Those few times I've had to run over and rescue him, he just hangs there and waits. Kinda like a dead chicken, no obvious panic or concern from him. Wierdo!

Thank you, for all that very pertinent information. On a "funny note" people think I am really weirdo for wanting a Corvid. So, I can "understand" Corvus's point of view .

Times like those is when I started trying to cradle him like baby. He's hanging there all compliant anyway. He allows me to touch him all over, under wings on belly, tail, feet everywhere. We started that right from the beginning.

So, I guess, physical desensitization is as important with Corvids, as it is with Canis lupus familiaris.

Laying on the floor playing with toys sounds cute but it's dangerous in reality.

Please continue to pardon my constant ignorance, but how can that be dangerous? I mean, other then possibly being "stepped on"?

The first time I saw it a couple weeks ago I thought he was ill!

If you had not told me about that possible behavior, I too would have thought my specimen was ill. Of course, I would have rushed him to the vet.

It was evening and I was just zoning out. I could hear him making the noise that I assume is my name (yes they do name their people)

I think it is so cool that Corvids name us . Sometimes, I zone out too. I guess, I will need to "keep that habit" to a minimum. I guess that I should anyway .

but was not paying too much attention, he kept calling and I was only 4 feet away. When I finally looked up there he was laying on his side with a small plastic basket held in one foot, calling and calling. Not desperate screaming quiet calling. ah-ah-ha.

Yet again, please, pardon my vast ignorance, but do you mean he got "stuck" in/with one of his toys?

Thinking he was dying I opened the cage and reached in my hand. He grabbed on to my finger in a death grip with both feet.

So, your Corvid was actually stuck or he was "playing"? Yet again, I am sorry, but I am confused. Are a Corvids feet, as strong as a parrot? Or, is his "death grip" relatively weak?

I slid a hand under him and realised one wing had slipped between the bars of the grate and he was stuck.

OMG, that is so so so so scary. I guess, you mean playing on the floor can cause a Corvid to get stuck? When I had my Psittaciformes, which where mainly kept as breeders, I did not use grates in my bird cages, would you recommend the same for my Corvus albicollis?

I managed to lift him out gently and luckily no harm done. Any other bird would have struggled and broken its wing! Now there's a mesh over the grate to prevent further such incidents.

1) You are very very lucky that nothing bad happened.
2) I completely agree any other bird would have panicked and injured itself.
3) Do think your Corvid did not injure himself because A) he is just a calm individual, B) all luck or C) Corvus, was " smart enough, to know help was on the way/Corvus knew, you would help him, so he did not panic"?

I've heard that males are more aggressive but since they don't reach maturity til at least 3 years old and I've no female to compare him to....

Thank you, for all that pertinent information.

The very tip of the beak has a slight hook and can penetrate if they want. Just give them a mouse or chick and you can see it's meant for shredding skin.

I hope that my Corvid, like yours, prefers to shred his prey item(s) as opposed to my flesh.

Good thing again that training a Corvid is much like training a dog. We started with 'gentle' and moved on to 'drop it'. He listens to both of these quite well. Drop it works for things we're playing catch with, stolen items and fingers. Gentle is for fingers in the mouth or offering food.

Yes, it truly does sound like training a Canis lupus familiaris. At the start or currently, do you give him a "food reward" (if so, what do you use) when he exhibits the "proper behavior"? Or, does praise work? I have been told, that Corvids do prefer food rewards. But, not always. So, I was just curious about your Corvus's "preference"?

For KimKim's baby Vador, I meant pablum as in baby food. It will leave baby feeling more full as well as add some more nutrition.

I got you now. I am sorry for my constant stupidity. Thank you, for having patience with me.

The cage in the house has a tree on one side ( a cherry branch trunk with 6 side branches of various woods that he can hop up like a spiral staircase. The other side has a shelf he can hop up to.

Thank you, for all that information. I was always told that Cherry Tree's are poisonous to Psittaciformes. Is the same not true for Corvids? Or, is this website simply incorrect: Toxic and Safe Plants/Trees for Birds - Household Poisons ?

We rotate his toys quite often as they get pooped on and destroyed regularly.

What type of toys do you use that are safe for your Corvid to destroy regularly?

A plastic basket on the floor of the cage is his toy box.

Aww, how cute .

He gets his food in a Stainless container and there are containers for caching and usually a face cloth he likes to use to cover his treasures.

Are they Stainless containers like this: Caitecs Foraging Baffle Cage Stainless Steel Small | eBay ? Or, are the "made for human use"? I guess Corvus does not eat the face cloth. I was told, that Corvids are prone to pica. I hope my specimen is like your Corvus. I.E. does not have pica issues.

Across the top half of the cage is a rope perch that he uses for sleep and to swing on. Will be adding a swing soon as this is a fairly new discovery.

I was told by Daniel a rope perch or toy, is a no no. Since, a Corvid can "get stuck in it" and or cause pica issues. I asked Brain and he said that is an "individual thing". I am guessing Brian is correct, on that one. Are you getting a PVC swing or a wood and metal swing like someone would for a parrot?

His outside set up is similar but with a real tree (dead) in the middle and lots of sticks rocks etc. for playing and hiding treasures, as well as his bathtub.

What do you use for his bathtub? How often do you clean what he caches in the rocks and sticks? Or, does he eat it in a "timely" manner?

I hang baby toys like rattles and other toys from the branches and bars and he enjoys pecking at these for the sounds they make. We have a toy piano and a few other 'push the button to make noise' toys which he uses when he's got out of cage time in the house.

Thank you for all that information. He sounds just adorable as usual. Plus, it gives me an idea what I can use for environmental enrichment for my Corvid.

Please note, the following: These YouTube's are NOT mine. I am just using them as a visual to help with some of my questions.

Is your Corvus's beak that hooked?

Is that how your Corvid plays on the floor of his cage and then "comes alive"?

 

[miss maggi]

First let me say I don't put that much importance on the intelligence aspect of living with a corvid. I can appreciate that they are known for intelligence but if I expect genius I may be disappointed. I try to just enjoy all my fids for who they are.

As for training , yes the whole thing is very dog like. A food reward is used to establish the correct response but then we slowly remove the food reward and substitute verbal praise and or a pet or a game of catch. Again its an individual thing and everyone will have their own motivator. I find that Corvus responds very quickly to a simple 'good boy!'.

I find a grate in the indoor enclosure is a must. He spends most of his time on the floor of the cage hiding. finding. moving and shredding - regular corvid stuff - the grate allows most of the poop to fall through and any wasted food falls through so there's less chance of him eating any of that.

His food dishes are just regular stainless steel food dishes for parrots/cat/dogs. I don't spend much money on containers. Small cardboard boxes, margarine containers, yogurt containers etc work just fine for caching. He has a few on the floor at any time and I hang a few where he can reach them easily. Recycled containers can be washed and reused until they get worn out then replaced at no charge. He enjoys egg cartons and styrofoam take out containers and phone books as well. Makes a heck of a mess but he really enjoys it and its free!

I'm no expert but I would think pica is either a reaction to a vitamin/mineral deficiency or to lack of environmental stimulation.

As mentioned earlier his bath tub is a large plant pot saucer about 2 feet across and 3 inches deep. Black plastic although I'm sure a ceramic one would work just a well if it were glazed.

The outside enclosure gets hosed out daily after use and the indoor enclosure gets the paper changed daily and the grate changed weekly.

The beak in the video is the same although Corvus has lost the very tip in a flying accident (crash landed on my sidewalk) no harm done he now files his beak on the same sidewalk. The playing possum video is more dramatic than the behavior I'm seeing now. Corvus does assume the same position but he only does it while holding his plastic basket. I'm guessing he just likes to be able to hold the basket firmly while pecking at it with his beak. Easier while laying down than while standing on a perch.

 

[CatsNbirds]

First let me say I don't put that much importance on the intelligence aspect of living with a corvid. I can appreciate that they are known for intelligence but if I expect genius I may be disappointed.

I hope this does not seem mean, rude, or cruel, but I am kind of hoping my specimen isn't a genius. Like I said in this thread: Nova Tonight | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum , I hope my Corvus albicollis (African White Necked Raven) has several "dim moments" daily .

Okay, on a more serious note, I work and just worry that my poor "genius" bird will become "lonely and depressed" while I am at work. So, truthfully, I am glad to hear that there is nothing wrong with "not expecting genius".

I try to just enjoy all my fids for who they are.

Sounds like a very wise idea, IMHO. Do all your fids, get along? Also, aren't you afraid your Hybrid Raven could hurt your Deroptyus accipitrinus (Hawk Head Parrot)? Another question, I believe you have Amazona auropalliata (Yellow Nape Amazon) or some sort of Amazona (Amazon)? If that is indeed correct, aren't you afraid your Amazona (Amazon) would hurt or possibly kill your Hybrid Raven? While, I kept and bred various Psittaciformes (Parrots), I have never ever had or wanted contact with anything from the Amazona (Amazon) family. You are FAR BRAVER then me! I am scared to loose a finger or worse! Lastly, I think you said that you had a Psittacus erithacus (African Grey Parrot). If so, how would you compare there "mental faculties"? I mean, you have scientifically speaking the worlds smartest type of parrot. Plus a Corvid, who's encephalization process/"state" puts it on par with a Pan troglodytes (Common Chimpanzee). I am sorry, I am just very very curious about all of the above.

As for training , yes the whole thing is very dog like.

As ludicrous as this sounds, I am not much of a Canis lupus familiaris (Domestic dog) person. But, I exotic animals that you can train with food an praise. Plus, are not so much "flight driven". I hope that all makes sense. If not, I will gladly rephrase.

A food reward is used to establish the correct response but then we slowly remove the food reward and substitute verbal praise and or a pet or a game of catch.

I would have no problem using food reward forever. Having had the exotic cat hybrids and a pure exotic cat, I always had "nutritionally sound" tidbits with me . But, being able to "wean them off food rewards" or use a "game" would be great too. Also, does your Hybrid Raven play fetch? I have seen a few video's of it and maybe that is what you mean by catch, come to think of it , but in any event, I think that is adorable and a great reward!

Again its an individual thing and everyone will have their own motivator.

As per usual, excellent point !

I find that Corvus responds very quickly to a simple 'good boy!'.

That is awesome.

I find a grate in the indoor enclosure is a must.

Okay, I will DEFINITELY be keeping it then. I just never used them with my Psittaciformes (Parrots). So, that is why I asked.

He spends most of his time on the floor of the cage hiding. finding. moving and shredding - regular corvid stuff - the grate allows most of the poop to fall through and any wasted food falls through so there's less chance of him eating any of that.

As per usual, you are a complete genius and my complete ineptitude shines threw. I had not really thought of any/all of those behaviors. THANK YOU AGAIN !

His food dishes are just regular stainless steel food dishes for parrots/cat/dogs. I don't spend much money on containers. Small cardboard boxes, margarine containers, yogurt containers etc work just fine for caching.

Now, I am wondering, if all the foraging toys, I have purchased and the rest that I hope to purchase are even necessary? At least, if my Corvus albicollis ( African White Necked Raven) does not like the toys, I will not be surprised . Plus, now I know, what types of toys to get him !

He has a few on the floor at any time and I hang a few where he can reach them easily. Recycled containers can be washed and reused until they get worn out then replaced at no charge. He enjoys egg cartons and styrofoam take out containers and phone books as well. Makes a heck of a mess but he really enjoys it and its free!

Thank you, for all that pertinent information. I guess he is like a typical "kid" .

I'm no expert

I would definitely consider you an expert. Especially, when compared to myself.

but I would think pica is either a reaction to a vitamin/mineral deficiency or to lack of environmental stimulation.

My gut inclination was that. But, having had exotic mammal hybrids, I learned differenly. Yes, a Corvid is not a mammal. But, still "behaviorally more exotic" then a Psittaciformes (Parrot). Okay, now if you had not told me that Daniel of Winding Woods Ranch was a legitimate source of information, I would dismiss the following sources: White Necked African Ravens ( please go to the feeding section) and this African Pied Crows Information (again, please go to the feeding section). But, now, I am thinking maybe it might be/is correct?

Also, for whatever this is worth, Brain said yes, they are prone to pica. But, just like how your exotic cat hybrids matured (mentally) so will the Corvus albicollis (African White Necked Raven). Plus, Brain also said that: a bored Raven is more prone to pica.

So, what follows is my educated guess: it is part a species specific behavior, part lack of environmental enrichment, and part the individual Corvids temperament/personality. What do you think?

As mentioned earlier his bath tub is a large plant pot saucer about 2 feet across and 3 inches deep. Black plastic although I'm sure a ceramic one would work just a well if it were glazed.

I am sorry , I had forgotten that I asked you that. Thank you and sorry for making you repeat yourself !

The outside enclosure gets hosed out daily after use and the indoor enclosure gets the paper changed daily and the grate changed weekly.

Thank you for all that information. So, a Corvid, is not really that much "messier/dirtier" then a Psittaciformes (Parrots).

The beak in the video is the same although Corvus has lost the very tip in a flying accident (crash landed on my sidewalk) no harm done he now files his beak on the same sidewalk.

First of all, I am glad Corvus was not injured. Maybe it is good that Corvus does not have the tip of his beak? I mean, did it seem like Corvus could impale human flesh with the tip like a bird of prey?

The playing possum video is more dramatic than the behavior I'm seeing now.

I hope that my specimen does not have a "flair for the dramatic". However, do you mean your Hybrid Raven used to do that and does not now? Or, is ditsy me confused, as per usual ?

Corvus does assume the same position but he only does it while holding his plastic basket. I'm guessing he just likes to be able to hold the basket firmly while pecking at it with his beak. Easier while laying down than while standing on a perch.

I completely agree with your assumption. Did I mention you are a genius ? As always, thank you, very very very MUCH!

 

[miss maggi]

Not being a psychologist of any sort I really can't speak to intelligence. I don't find my Grey all that smart just cute in the things she says and does.

She does learn from watching others as in the Alex and Pepperburg work - model rival stuff. In our case the Hawk Head is the rival. The Hawk Head is confident and easy to train. The Grey has learned to trust me by watching my interactions with the Hawk Head. She is very jealous of the Jardines (who is my first) and she lets the other birds try new foods before she will. The grey talks in context and gives the right names to everyone and everything.

The raven is obviously watching everything that goes on and is a very quick study when he knows there's a pay off for him. He is usually very eager to please but shows definite likes and dislikes. His vocalizations are limited but he learned from the dogs that barking at the mailman is fun and will bark at any unknown sights or sounds around the house. He learned in the context of our family that alert barking is okay if not just fun. Often when he barks I ask "are you a dog or a crow" occasionally I hear 'crow' in response.

I don't put too much thought into how or why they learn, am just glad when they do.

The Hawk Head may be the smartest of the bunch. She's a manipulator and will change her behavior to get what she wants. If biting an ear won't get her human attention she will switch to verbalizing if that still won't work she will lay in her back and purr still no luck? She will give you a big noisy kiss. Can't ignore that!

The Grey does things to please herself, the Raven does things to please the humans, the Hawk Head does things to make the humans respond.

Could the raven hurt the Hawk Head? Definitely. They are not out alone without supervision. He has removed a few of her tail feathers and once bit her toe. This is part of the importance of teaching him to 'drop it'.

The DYA is not a real concern. He does not like to be handled and does not even like the other birds to near. He actually seems to be forming some sort of bond with Corvus though and will sit on the play apparatus near Corvus' house and will call incessantly if Corvus is outside without him. The two do seem to be communicating through the window and it can be quite annoying. I like to assume it's a guy thing.

When Corvus is out in the house he stays on the main floor and the girls tend to hide either upstairs or in the cage that serves as their feeding station. So far so good.

Corvus does not fetch as in retrieve. He much prefers a game of keep away. When I say play a game of catch - he just enjoys me throwing small things he can catch in his beak. Sometimes it's food sometimes it's toys. He will even play catch by himself at times. Throws a small ball in the air then hops quick to catch it.

Sorry but Corvid mess compared to parrot mess is worse. Big splattery poops generally every 15 minutes as compared to little parrot poops every 1/2 hour. If cleaned up right away its not bad but those ones that get missed and run behind the tv or what have you.....also healthy parrot poop does not smell. Crow poop smells like crow poop. It's an acquired taste.

 

[CatsNbirds]

Not being a psychologist of any sort I really can't speak to intelligence.

I am not any sort of psychologist either. I did not mean to give the impression that I was one, I am sorry. I was/am just interested in any/all anecdotal stories regarding animal intelligence.

I don't find my Grey all that smart just cute in the things she says and does.

I see . When I had my female Psittacus erithacus (African Grey) I did not find her to be all that intelligent either. However, since most people find them to be so intelligent and pleasant, I had "assumed mine was a dub". Please note, I am NOT saying anything bad about your personal specimen/pet. I was about mine, I just want to be clear.

She does learn from watching others as in the Alex and Pepperburg work - model rival stuff.

I had studied her work extensively in high school and in junior college, so I find it very interesting that Psittacus erithacus (African Grey) "learn" using that method even outside a laboratory setting.

In our case the Hawk Head is the rival. The Hawk Head is confident and easy to train. The Grey has learned to trust me by watching my interactions with the Hawk Head.

I find all that information VERY interesting. Thank you, very much for sharing all that information with me.

She is very jealous of the Jardines (who is my first) and she lets the other birds try new foods before she will.

Well, like all wise "queen's" she wants several "taste testers" .

The grey talks in context and gives the right names to everyone and everything.

My Psittacus erithacus (African Grey) was like that too. But, she learned "better/quicker" when I was trying NOT to teach her.

The raven is obviously watching everything that goes on and is a very quick study when he knows there's a pay off for him.

Your Hybrid Raven, sounds like a lot of the people I know .

He is usually very eager to please but shows definite likes and dislikes.

Would you mind sharing some of the things he likes, as well as some of the things he dislikes?

His vocalizations are limited but he learned from the dogs that barking at the mailman is fun and will bark at any unknown sights or sounds around the house.

I have heard, but I have NO IDEA if it is true that: the larger Corvids take longer to "speak" then many of the "smaller" Psittaciformes (parrots). Plus, I have also been told that Curvus (Raven/Crow) will continue to learn "new words" threw out there life like many Psittacus erithacus (African Grey) do.

He learned in the context of our family that alert barking is okay if not just fun. Often when he barks I ask "are you a dog or a crow" occasionally I hear 'crow' in response.

I would only need to hear that once, at least outside of a scientific lab setting, to be convinced of a Corvids "genius".

I don't put too much thought into how or why they learn, am just glad when they do.

Having always been interested in animal intelligence, I put too much thought into all three, I suspect. I need to put more thought into the latter.

The Hawk Head may be the smartest of the bunch. She's a manipulator and will change her behavior to get what she wants. If biting an ear won't get her human attention she will switch to verbalizing if that still won't work she will lay in her back and purr still no luck? She will give you a big noisy kiss. Can't ignore that!

Yes, your particular Deroptyus accipitrinus (Hawk-headed Parrot) does sound brilliant. My personal favorite from the above list: laying on her back and "purring". Being a cat person, anything that purrs has my . Also, I have been told some species of Corvus (Crows/Ravens) "purr" is that true?

The Grey does things to please herself, the Raven does things to please the humans, the Hawk Head does things to make the humans respond.

You most definitely know your flock very well, IMHO. Your Hybrid Raven sounds like a Canis lupus familiaris (Domestic Dog). I think this goes without saying, but I think he is adorable !

Could the raven hurt the Hawk Head? Definitely. They are not out alone without supervision. He has removed a few of her tail feathers and once bit her toe. This is part of the importance of teaching him to 'drop it'.

Yes, I do indeed "see" the importance of the ' drop it' command.

The DYA is not a real concern. He does not like to be handled and does not even like the other birds to near.

I am not familiar with a DYA Amazon's, but the world Amazona (Amazon Parrot) sends chills down my spine .

He actually seems to be forming some sort of bond with Corvus though and will sit on the play apparatus near Corvus' house and will call incessantly if Corvus is outside without him. The two do seem to be communicating through the window

Wow, that sounds very very interesting. Thank you, for sharing that with me. Lastly, what is the apparatus you speak of?

and it can be quite annoying. I like to assume it's a guy thing.

Aren't most guys behaviors quite annoying ?

When Corvus is out in the house he stays on the main floor and the girls tend to hide either upstairs or in the cage that serves as their feeding station. So far so good.

Smart girls . Glad you found something that works for your flock. Or, they have found something that works for them .

Corvus does not fetch as in retrieve. He much prefers a game of keep away.

Now, that is just so cute . In theory at least .

When I say play a game of catch - he just enjoys me throwing small things he can catch in his beak. Sometimes it's food sometimes it's toys.

I suppose that is a good way to get him to eat his vegtables ? What type of toys do you use? All I can think of, at least at the moment, are things like ping pong balls and such.

He will even play catch by himself at times. Throws a small ball in the air then hops quick to catch it.

I have "seen" Sam the Raven do that on YouTube. I thought it was quite adorable. I am sure, Corvus, is even more adorable doing it !

Sorry but Corvid mess compared to parrot mess is worse. Big splattery poops generally every 15 minutes as compared to little parrot poops every 1/2 hour.

I am not that worried about that part of the mess. I intend on keeping him on "easy clean" surfaces/rooms. I will say, that is quite a frequent bowel movement pattern.

If cleaned up right away its not bad but those ones that get missed and run behind the tv or what have you

Yes, I would imagine "missed" feces are quite hard to remove. Speaking of cleaning up feces , what do you recommend as a cleaning product?

.....also healthy parrot poop does not smell.

Yes, that is one major "bonus" of Psittaciformes (parrot) feces, IMHO.

Crow poop smells like crow poop. It's an acquired taste.

Now, having only been near one Corvid, in my whole life and it was a Corvus brachyrhynchos (American Crow) I am not any type of expert. Plus, one specimen was an atrocious sample size. I am not sure you could even call that a sample size. But, I do not remember that sort of smell at all regarding that specimens feces. Maybe, that specimen was not healthy?

@Birdbabe , was your experience with the wild Corvids you worked with, similar to Miss Maggie's experience with her Hybrid Raven? @Bailey , when you "pet sit" for Nevermore the Hybrid Raven, does his/her feces smell that bad? Lastly, @gibsongrrrl , was the Corvus brachyrhynchos (American Crow) that you raised in the veterinarians office, had/have that strong of smell to his/her feces?

@miss maggi, please do not be offended that I am asking other people's experience. I completely and absolutely believe you. So, please, I beg of you do not be offended. I am just curious about other people's experiences. Lastly, how long does Corvus's feces "smell like cow poop for"?

 

[miss maggi]

Crow poop is not an awful unbearable stink up your whole house thing. It just has a smell. They are omnivores so the food they eat then digest creates an odor is all. There's a very slight 'crow smell' to their feathers as well. Not unpleasant, just 'crow'.

Clean up is a little easier than parrot poop. Parrot poop is more sticky. Fresh, I use wet wipes. Dried on, a putty knife works to scrape/loosen then just water or an all purpose cleaner.

I suspect the rival/model approach is natural behavior for Greys. I just noticed in mine that after the Hawk Head learned to hang upside down then lay in my palm the Grey was willing to try, same with new foods etc., if the others try and nothing happens she will try.

Yes, I find trying to teach words by repeating them over and over is not a very good method. They pick up things that turn them on and/or get a reaction. I do like how she will take a phrase and make it her own. My son sometimes calls our Chinese Crested "Pony, you God forsaken dog" the Grey changed that to "Corvus, God forsaken crow."

I really don't know about language acquisition in Corvids. I've heard that if they chose to use human speech it's limited to a few words. I'd not heard before that some can/do purr. All I can tell you is that mine does not.

Playing catch is a natural talent and you will of course experiment to find things to toss and be caught by your specimen. Think cat toys, small sticks, raisins. As long as no one gets hurt.....

The apparatus I refer to is what others refer to as a play stand/gym. I rigged up ours using a couple of bamboo ladders from China Town suspended by chains from the ceiling in front of window. The ladders are wrapped with boings for stable grip and toys are hung here and there. If I get the picture thing figured out I will post.

 

[Birdbabe]

I can tell you that our resident crows and ravens at the wildlife center are very smart! I watched one of them take the screws out of her ladder, one by one, until the whole thing fell about,,,and,,,quite pleased with herself,,,HID THE SCREWS in her aviary! Another nite, I was there late by myself in the ICU, and outside heard a mans voice say "Hey" , " Ha Ha Ha"....I thought oh lovely, Im alone, its dark at pitch, Someone is out there...My priority is to protect the birds, So I grabbed a broom and the biggest syringe I could find,,,making my way through the enclosure maze in complete blackness, I kept hearing the mans voice mumbling and laughing, Didnt take me long to find out it was one of the crows,,,talking! I told her " you little snot! You scared me!" She then laughed at me, and I went about my business.
As for the smell of the poo, Cant tell ya, coz they eat meat, mice, fruit, seeds, berries, whatever , so the enclosures always had a smell about them. But never underestimate theyre intelligence, they are amazing. One of the ravens untied my shoe and proceeded to try and take it off my foot once!

 

[Bailey]

Scarlett is vegan and feeds Nevermore a vegan diet. His poop doesn't stink but I can't relate to meat-fed corvids.

 

[CatsNbirds]

Crow poop is not an awful unbearable stink up your whole house thing. It just has a smell.

Okay, I understand what you mean much better now. I was imaging a smell like a "pig farm" or a "chicken farm". I.E., you can smell it from a half mile away. I am glad we are on the same page now. I am sorry for being so ditsy and dull witted at times. Thank you, for your patience.

They are omnivores so the food they eat then digest creates an odor is all.

I completely understand what you where trying to say earlier now. I am sorry for the misunderstanding .

There's a very slight 'crow smell' to their feathers as well. Not unpleasant, just 'crow'.

As long as, my Corvus albicollis (African White-necked Raven) does not smell like wet Canis lupus familiaris (Domestic Dog), I have NO complaints!

Clean up is a little easier than parrot poop. Parrot poop is more sticky. Fresh, I use wet wipes. Dried on, a putty knife works to scrape/loosen then just water or an all purpose cleaner.

Thank you, for the explanation on the difference in consistency between a Psittaciformes (parrots) and Corvids droppings. This is what I used to clean my Psittaciformes (parrots) cages/droppings: Simple Green Cat Stain & Odor Remover , Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner or Simple Green Bio Dog Stain & Odor Remover . What do you think of them? I mean from a safety stand point and or prospective.

I suspect the rival/model approach is natural behavior for Greys. I just noticed in mine that after the Hawk Head learned to hang upside down then lay in my palm the Grey was willing to try, same with new foods etc., if the others try and nothing happens she will try.

I completely agree, with your hypothesis that the Model/Rival Method is a very natural way for Psittacus erithacus (African Grey Parrot) to learn. Since, you have other avian species, it is great that your Psittacus erithacus (African Grey Parrot) learned all those positive behaviors from your Deroptyus accipitrinus (Hawk-headed Parrot).

Yes, I find trying to teach words by repeating them over and over is not a very good method. They pick up things that turn them on and/or get a reaction. I do like how she will take a phrase and make it her own. My son sometimes calls our Chinese Crested "Pony, you God forsaken dog" the Grey changed that to "Corvus, God forsaken crow."

That is amazing what your Psittacus erithacus (African Grey Parrot) learned to say such "appropriate phases"

I really don't know about language acquisition in Corvids. I've heard that if they chose to use human speech it's limited to a few words.

Alright, I have heard that too. But, I was also told that some Corvids are as good as Psittacus erithacus (African Grey Parrot) when it comes to verbal skills. I was told and have seen on various documentaries that a Corvids ability to "reason" in order to get a food reward is second to none. At least, in the avian world. Your stores about your Hybrid Raven Corvus, seem to illustrate the latter part of the statement, IMHO.

I'd not heard before that some can/do purr. All I can tell you is that mine does not.

This is the site/article that told me some Corvids purr: Old Crows, Ravens, And Black Birds . It is also a very interesting and insightful article too.

Playing catch is a natural talent and you will of course experiment to find things to toss and be caught by your specimen. Think cat toys, small sticks, raisins. As long as no one gets hurt.....

I love that natural talent. It also makes them look even more adorable, IMHO. Yes, I just want to do safe experimentation with my specimen. I most definitely do not want him to be hurt/injured. Regarding the cats toys, do you use ones with bells/small balls in them? My gut inclination says that is unwise, but you are the expert. So, I will refer to you .

The apparatus I refer to is what others refer to as a play stand/gym. I rigged up ours using a couple of bamboo ladders from China Town suspended by chains from the ceiling in front of window. The ladders are wrapped with boings for stable grip and toys are hung here and there. If I get the picture thing figured out I will post.

That sounds like a fantastic apparatus. I would to see picture's so I could copy your design. Of course, picture's of Corvus the Hybrid Raven would be great too .

I can tell you that our resident crows and ravens at the wildlife center are very smart!

Yes, I was afraid you would say that .The reason that I am worried about this is I work full time and do want my poor male specimen "bored to tears". What do you use for environmental enrichment with the Corvids at the center?

I watched one of them take the screws out of her ladder, one by one, until the whole thing fell about,,,and,,,quite pleased with herself,,,HID THE SCREWS in her aviary!

What a cheeky Corvid .

Another nite, I was there late by myself in the ICU, and outside heard a mans voice say "Hey" , " Ha Ha Ha"....I thought oh lovely, Im alone, its dark at pitch, Someone is out there...My priority is to protect the birds, So I grabbed a broom and the biggest syringe I could find,,,making my way through the enclosure maze in complete blackness, I kept hearing the mans voice mumbling and laughing, Didnt take me long to find out it was one of the crows,,,talking!

I am not sure what to say, besides me o my...what have I signed up for .

I told her " you little snot! You scared me!" She then laughed at me, and I went about my business.

It seems, at least to a point, some Corvids can use words/noises, in proper context, wouldn't you agree?

As for the smell of the poo, Cant tell ya, coz they eat meat, mice, fruit, seeds, berries, whatever , so the enclosures always had a smell about them.

I completely understand, thank you for sharing that information with me

But never underestimate theyre intelligence, they are amazing.

I am begining to see that clearly. Any other examples of intelligence/cheekiness would be greatly appreciated.

One of the ravens untied my shoe and proceeded to try and take it off my foot once!

, really? Did he tie it back up for you ? Seriously though, any other Raven stories would be greatly appreciated too!

Scarlett is vegan and feeds Nevermore a vegan diet. His poop doesn't stink but I can't relate to meat-fed corvids.

Thank you, very very much for that information. While, I am not a vegan and I do not expect the animals in my care to be vegans, I am so worried about my specimen getting hemochromatosis. So, I am considering a vegan diet for my specimen. I know the type of dog food she uses. But, how old is Nevermore the Hybrid Raven? How long has this Hybrid Raven been on a vegan diet? More importantly, IMHO, has this Corvid ever had a blood panel done in order to check for nutritional deficiencies?

Thank you all again !

 

[Bailey]

Nevermore is 4 years old and has been vegan since he was 6 weeks old, as far as I know. He has never had any health issues, and I know Scarlett sees a Certified Avian Vet (same one I do) but I don't know for sure if she gets bloodwork done regularly.

 

[NiRD]

Hi. I know I'm late to the party, but I have some serious concerns about this post.

But before I just start talking, I should probably note that I have a lot of experience with corvids. I'm a professional animal behaviorist and trainer, and I specialize in corvids. I own them, train them, educate people about them, and even use them for media.

First and foremost, my biggest concern is the diet you plan on feeding. Purina Puppy Chow is not even safe for dogs, let alone birds. Dog and cat food should never be fed to corvids. You'll be lucky if you get five years with your bird. It has been linked to cancer, fatty liver disease, liver failure, and kidney issues in both dogs (this brand specifically) and birds (all dog and cat food).

Feeding corvids isn't terribly different than feeding parrots, with the addition of twenty perfect protein. That's it. No more than twenty. My corvids eat fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, cooked whole grains (quinoa, wheat berry, buckwheat, steel cut oats, barley, etc). Meat is supplied in the form of raw high quality red meat (rabbit, beef, deer, elk, bison).We feed meal worms as treats. NiNice are not recommended.

Secondly, ravens require a lot of room. My crow is kept in a cage that is 6x4x6 indoors, something close to 20x40 (haven't officially measured) outdoors. You will need a minimum of an 8x6x6 ft indoor cage for a raven. Can you accommodate that?
Also, corvids are escape artists. There is one white neck raven who can open combination locks. Please keep this in mind when considering caging.

The price of the white neck raven is steep, but that is the cheapest part of the bird. They have high metabolisms and eat a ton, are expensive to house, and need a lot of toys (no ropes or chains, because they could get stuck in them and can't pull themselves up).

Lastly, I have some inside information on the breeder you chose, though I'm new to the forums and not quite sure if I can post that openly or not. Please feel free to message me for this information or any other questions you might have.

I'm truly not trying to discourage you, but it honestly doesn't sound like much thought or research went into this decision, and for that, I'm concerned.

 

[CatsNbirds]

Hi. I know I'm late to the party,

Better late then never .

but I have some serious concerns about this post.

I am sorry, I have made you worried. Please, feel free, to check all my other posts, hopefully, that will put some of your fears at ease. For whatever it is worth, I am scared too .

But before I just start talking, I should probably note that I have a lot of experience with corvids.

Please tell me what type of experience you have. Can you post any links showing your experience?

I'm a professional animal behaviorist and trainer, and I specialize in corvids.

Wow, that is just amazing. Please show me your website as well as your degree's .

I own them, train them, educate people about them, and even use them for media.

Again, I would love to see the websites and or articles that you are in .

First and foremost, my biggest concern is the diet you plan on feeding. Purina Puppy Chow is not even safe for dogs, let alone birds.

I was told that is what my specimen was weaned onto . My specimen is coming form The Corvid Ranch. If you search my various threads, you will get a better feel for what I intend to feed my Corvid.

Dog and cat food should never be fed to corvids.

I have seen various articles endurance dog food as the base diet.

IYou'll be lucky if you get five years with your bird.

I was going to use Mazuri Softbill pellets.

It has been linked to cancer, fatty liver disease, liver failure, and kidney issues in both dogs (this brand specifically) and birds (all dog and cat food).

There is another remember with a hybrid Raven that uses dog food as part of her base diet with great success. There is another member thats friend uses a vegan dog food for many years on her Raven. So, is it the Purina Puppy Chow you have the problem with? It seems you have issues with dog food in general. Why is that?

Feeding corvids isn't terribly different than feeding parrots, with the addition of twenty perfect protein. That's it. No more than twenty.

Both of the "well known breeders" (The Corvid Ranch and Winding Woods Ranch) say 20 to 40 percent protein. Why do you say 20 percent? Do you have any articles to show your rational?

My corvids eat fresh fruit, fresh vegetables,

Would you mind telling me what fruits and vegatables you feed and how often? Thank you .

cooked whole grains (quinoa, wheat berry, buckwheat, steel cut oats, barley, etc).

What percentages and how often do you feed the above mentioned food items?

Meat is supplied in the form of raw high quality red meat (rabbit, beef, deer, elk, bison).

Again, I was told by both breeders to feed cooked meats. Why do you say raw?

We feed meal worms as treats.

What insects do you recomend to be given as a "staple" in the Corvids diet?

NiNice are not recommended.

I am sorry, you lost me there . Can you rephrase?

Secondly, ravens require a lot of room. My crow is kept in a cage that is 6x4x6 indoors, something close to 20x40 (haven't officially measured) outdoors. You will need a minimum of an 8x6x6 ft indoor cage for a raven. Can you accommodate that?

Yes, the room that housed my Leptailurus serval (African Serval cat) and his outdoor enclosure will house my Corvus albicollis (African White-necked Raven).

Also, corvids are escape artists.

I was aware of that. Again, having lived with the pure exotic cat mentioned above, plus having had an F1 and F3 Savannah plus F2 Chausiue, I am used to the basic idea, I swear.

There is one white neck raven who can open combination locks. Please keep this in mind when considering caging.

I did not know that. When I had my Psittacus erithacus (CAG) she could do that. I was not aware of that. What would you recomend? I am now thinking a pad lock and key?

The price of the white neck raven is steep,

I would have to respectfully disagree. I bred various parrots that cost way way more then most Corvids.

but that is the cheapest part of the bird.

That is for sure .

They have high metabolisms and eat a ton,

That should not be a problem for me .

are expensive to house,

Yes, what it cost to exotic cat and exotic cat hybrid proof, part of my home, I agree.

and need a lot of toys (no ropes or chains, because they could get stuck in them and can't pull themselves up).

I was aware of that from an article I read. If you would like to tell me what toys you recommend that would be great .

Lastly, I have some inside information on the breeder you chose, though I'm new to the forums and not quite sure if I can post that openly or not. Please feel free to message me for this information or any other questions you might have.

You need over a certian amount of posts to PM each other. If you ask @Birdiemarie , she might be able to advise you on the forum rules. I sure can not, I am sorry .

I'm truly not trying to discourage you, but it honestly doesn't sound like much thought or research went into this decision, and for that, I'm concerned.

I am sorry that I gave you that impression. Please have a look at all these threads, hopefully, they will put your mind at ease: Pictures - Toys/Toy parts for my Corvus albicollis (White-necked Raven) what do you all think? | Page 2 | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum , http://forums.avianavenue.com/index...aven-a-corvid-in-general.138814/#post-2012189 , How does someone train a Corvid to drink from a water bottle? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum , Looking for information on hand feeding a Corvid. Specifically a Corvus albicollis/White-Necked Rave | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum , How to feed omnivorous Corvids in captivity...your thoughts please? | Page 2 | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum , hemochromatosis (Iron Storage Disease) in omnivorous Softbill birds. | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum , What type of toys are good for a White-necked Raven (Corvus albicollis) and Corvids in general? | Page 2 | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum , Jess(s) for a White-necked Raven (Corvus albicollis) | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum , and Interested everyone's opinion on Psittaciformes/Corvid "health insurance". | Page 2 | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum .

 

[NiRD]

Well I'm certainly glad you have experience with difficult to keep animals. It sounds as though you have done more research since posting this. Let's see if I can address at least most of your questions.

My experience- I started with corvids in high school, actually with ravens. I volunteered with rehab centers. Some of the birds were releasable, some were not. I started with the non releasable birds, and eventually worked my way up to actually going to schools and special events with my sponsor. In college, ravens were one of the species I worked with. I currently train corvids, among other bird species and other animals to use for education (I now have my own company), photo shoots, commercials, theater productions and special events. I also do in home training with other peoples pet birds, though I have never met another pet corvid in my area. Lastly, I've done some behavior and housing consults for rescues and other educators.

Sorry, I don't post my full name in forums such as this one, and if I did you would have no way of actually verifying it was me. I do understand your skepticism, though.

Dog or cat food shouldn't make up any part of their diet. The articles that post that are often rescues and rehabilitators whose main goal is to house corvids temporarily. They feed on a budget. The average lifespan of a raven in the wild is roughly seven years, but did you know that in captivity on a good diet, they can live forty to sixty years? On a dog food only diet, they don't last well at all. On a mixed dog food diet like the ones the facility I grew up working with fed, their average lifespan was fifteen to twenty years.

Mazuri softbill pellets is pretty reputable, but it shouldn't make up the base of their diet.

I tend to disagree with dog food in general, but in terms of dog food, Puppy Chow is one of the worst. It receives a failing score on every dog food rating scale that has been published. If you must feed dog food, there are much better dog foods to choose from. I don't even feed dog food to my own dogs. They are on the raw prey model diet.

I'm interested to find out how old these members corvids are. Also, vegan DOG food? Dogs are carnivores. This is really upsetting to read.

Fruits and vegetables.... I feed blueberries, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, collard greens, mustard greens, snow peas, bok choi, turnip greens, carrots, radish, squash... This mixture with the grains make up about 75% of their diets.

I don't feed cooked meats because that isn't a natural diet. All of my carnivorous and omnivorous animals eat raw meats as part of their diets. I also don't feed any bugs as a staple. I have always been taught that they are for enrichment and training only by one of my mentors, and he has some really healthy, older birds (one in the thirties and one in the fourties). I feed meal worms because they are easy to come across in bulk. Occasionally I will toss my birds some dubia cockroaches, mostly because I breed them and they're free.

Sorry, I was typing on my phone before. I meant "mice". The aforementioned mentor will toss the occasional rat pink (similar to baby mice except nutritionally "fuller") to his birds if they need to be fattened up in winter. I haven't needed to do that, though, as I keep my birds indoors in poor weather conditions. His live outdoors 24/7.

I use climbing carabiners on the indoor corvid enclosures. There are ones where you have to press a small button and then twist and pull down before you can open it. My hookbills can open them, but the corvids don't have that amount of beak pressure. I use these indoors in case there is an emergency and I or somebody else needs to access my birds. Outdoors I use padlocks with keys. I have people over all the time, and I also don't trust my neighbors or the neighborhood children. The white neck I work with has been seen sticking toys and sticks in the lock trying to pick it, but hasn't succeeded.

Toys- That's entirely it's own topic! My birds can dismantle 3D brain puzzles, so that's always a great toy. We've found someone local who makes them out of bamboo instead of the galvanized metal. We use toddler toys (rings that stack, wood puzzles, stringing toys, those balls that you put shapes into, etc), dog puzzle toys, bird puzzle toys (without rope or chain), balls (they love cat balls), Duplos, and we've fashioned our own puzzles with the help of an acrylic reptile enclosure designer.

I also jess my corvids, but only because I am a falconer and have experience with jesses. They are only safe to use with shock cord, and I still prefer Aviator harnesses to them. I will read your threads soon. I hope some of this information helped at least.

 

[CatsNbirds]

Well I'm certainly glad you have experience with difficult to keep animals.

Those where just the "pet animals" that I owned that where difficult. I also kept and bred various reptiles and amphibians.

It sounds as though you have done more research since posting this.

Yes I have and I still am . Have you had a chance to check my other threads?

Let's see if I can address at least most of your questions.

I would appreciate it, thank you, very very much .

My experience- I started with corvids in high school, actually with ravens.

What species of Ravens? I am guessing the Corvus corax (Common Raven). In what capacity did you work with them? I am a licensed wildlife rehabilitation in two states.

I volunteered with rehab centers.

Cool cool .

Some of the birds were releasable, some were not. I started with the non releasable birds, and eventually worked my way up to actually going to schools and special events with my sponsor.

Do you still do those activities now ? If so, I would love to see photo's. Heck, I would love to see photo's from then .

In college, ravens were one of the species I worked with.

What type of animal science did you study? What degree did you graduate with ?

I currently train corvids, among other bird species and other animals to use for education (I now have my own company), photo shoots, commercials, theater productions and special events.

That is amazing and congratulations . Can we see your website?

I also do in home training with other peoples pet birds, though I have never met another pet corvid in my area. Lastly, I've done some behavior and housing consults for rescues and other educators.

Cool cool . Do you have any photo's and stories to share ?

Sorry, I don't post my full name in forums such as this one, and if I did you would have no way of actually verifying it was me.

I was not actually looking for your full name . I am sorry for the confusion. I was looking for the website that shows all your fantastic work .

I do understand your skepticism, though.

I am only skeptical because anyone can say anything they want on the internet. If I give you my personal e-mail, will you share your website with me?

Dog or cat food shouldn't make up any part of their diet.

Why is that? Someone on this forum said that it should. They also worked in a zoo. Please have a look at this thread: How to feed omnivorous Corvids in captivity...your thoughts please? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum .

The articles that post that are often rescues and rehabilitators whose main goal is to house corvids temporarily. They feed on a budget. The average lifespan of a raven in the wild is roughly seven years, but did you know that in captivity on a good diet, they can live forty to sixty years?

Yes, I knew in nature they lived a short life. However, almost any species lives much longer in captivity. The acceptations are normally the various herps (Reptiles and Amphibians).

On a dog food only diet, they don't last well at all.

I am sorry for the confusion. I did not intend to just feed dog food. Just as part of the diet. Even people at the Bronx Zoo recommend some dog food. I know this because I called .

On a mixed dog food diet like the ones the facility I grew up working with fed, their average lifespan was fifteen to twenty years.

Do you consider that a good lifespan? What else was in the "mix diet"?

Mazuri softbill pellets is pretty reputable, but it shouldn't make up the base of their diet.

Why is that? What do you recommend as a base diet?

I tend to disagree with dog food in general, but in terms of dog food, Puppy Chow is one of the worst. It receives a failing score on every dog food rating scale that has been published. If you must feed dog food, there are much better dog foods to choose from. I don't even feed dog food to my own dogs. They are on the raw prey model diet.

I am no fan of Purina Puppy Chow. But, I have know many dogs that ate Purina Dog Chow for many years and where fine. I am also a licensed vet tech, so I have seen plenty of dogs in my day. I have fed all my cats, no matter the species/species make up (exotic cat hybrids) raw whole prey. I breed various prey items for my DSH's. What dog foods would you consider "acceptable"?

I'm interested to find out how old these members corvids are.

One is around four years old I believe. Is that correct @miss maggi ? The other is the one @Bailey "pet sits" for and he is over five and has no health issues. I think that is correct .

Also, vegan DOG food? Dogs are carnivores. This is really upsetting to read.

I think it it is important to remember dogs are not obligate carnivores like all species of cats are. So, I think some plant matter is fine. It is also important to remember, wolfs eat the intestines and stomach of there prey animals. Hence, it seems likely that a domestic dog would need some vegetable matter.

Lastly, as a vet tech, I can tell you I have seen many dogs that need a vegan food. Since, they are real protein related health issues.

Fruits and vegetables.... I feed blueberries, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, collard greens, mustard greens, snow peas, bok choi, turnip greens, carrots, radish, squash... This mixture with the grains make up about 75% of their diets.

Do you feed all of the above daily? If not, what is the percentage of each given daily? I do not see any mention of whole grain pasta or Yams, why is that?

I don't feed cooked meats because that isn't a natural diet. All of my carnivorous and omnivorous animals eat raw meats as part of their diets.

Okay, thank you .

I also don't feed any bugs as a staple.

Okay, again, see the thread I posted above. Again, one of the keepers at the Bronx Zoo said insects are very good for them. Just make sure they are "gut loaded".

I have always been taught that they are for enrichment and training only by one of my mentors, and he has some really healthy, older birds (one in the thirties and one in the fourties).

That is very interesting, thank you, for sharing .

I feed meal worms because they are easy to come across in bulk. Occasionally I will toss my birds some dubia cockroaches, mostly because I breed them and they're free.

Thank you for the information. I would assume too many meal worms are bad cause they are so high in chitin? I know that is true in some juvenile reptiles and amphibians.

Sorry, I was typing on my phone before. I meant "mice".

That is fine, no worries .

The aforementioned mentor will toss the occasional rat pink (similar to baby mice except nutritionally "fuller") to his birds if they need to be fattened up in winter. I haven't needed to do that, though, as I keep my birds indoors in poor weather conditions. His live outdoors 24/7.

I see I see . How much outdoor time do your birds get?

I use climbing carabiners on the indoor corvid enclosures. There are ones where you have to press a small button and then twist and pull down before you can open it. My hookbills can open them, but the corvids don't have that amount of beak pressure. I use these indoors in case there is an emergency and I or somebody else needs to access my birds.

Thank you for all that information !

Outdoors I use padlocks with keys. I have people over all the time, and I also don't trust my neighbors or the neighborhood children. The white neck I work with has been seen sticking toys and sticks in the lock trying to pick it, but hasn't succeeded.

Wow, they really are smart !

Toys- That's entirely it's own topic! My birds can dismantle 3D brain puzzles, so that's always a great toy. We've found someone local who makes them out of bamboo instead of the galvanized metal. We use toddler toys (rings that stack, wood puzzles, stringing toys, those balls that you put shapes into, etc), dog puzzle toys, bird puzzle toys (without rope or chain), balls (they love cat balls), Duplos, and we've fashioned our own puzzles with the help of an acrylic reptile enclosure designer.

Thank you, for all that information. My only question is you are not affriad they will not eat some of the domestic cat toys? How prone are they to pica anyway?

I also jess my corvids, but only because I am a falconer and have experience with jesses. They are only safe to use with shock cord, and I still prefer Aviator harnesses to them. I will read your threads soon. I hope some of this information helped at least.

Thank you, for all that information !