(Update #23) Does anyone here have experience with Corvids? I will be getting a Corvus albicollis.

[CatsNbirds]

all,

Like the title says, I will be getting a Corvus albicollis this year...hopefully. I sent a deposit for a male chick to the owner of the Corvid Ranch. However, I was VERY late sending the deposit. So, I will hopefully get my male chick this year, if not, next year .Anyway, I have a some questions for all you wise people. I hope all of you do NOT mind answering my questions.

So, my first set of questions regard the "proper" diet of a Corvus albicollis. I will be getting my chick at around six (6) weeks old. The breeder told me to feed him Purina Puppy Chow dog food (in kibble form and soaked). He said that I will need to hand-feed it to him three (3) to five (5) times a day. My question is this: should I also soak either Softbill pellets or parrot pellets along with the soaked Purina Puppy Chow Dog food? Or, should I give that to the chick when he is older? If so, how much "older" should he be? Or, should the "base diet" just be the Purina Puppy Chow Kibble?

My next question regarding the diet of my Corvus albicollis is "how to present him meat". What I mean by that is the breeder told me to "give him cooked meat for my safety". Well, all the cats I have ever had (early generation foundation hybrid cats and pure domestics) where fed raw (human grade meat, bones, and organs) foods. Plus, F/T (fresh thawed) prey items and some live prey items too. Would this type of diet be "good" for the Corvus albicollis or are "cooked meats" better for my raven?

I would also like to know what is best to feed my White-necked Raven besides meat. I would told cooked pasta and potatoes are good too. Plus, some fruits and veggies. With the cooked pasta, I am sure it should be served plain. But would wholegrain pasta be better then "regular pasta"? Regarding the potatoes, would white potatoes be better then sweet potatoes or vise versa? I am fairly sure, they should be served without anything on them, is that correct? I was also told they could have bread. Is whole grain bread wise? Or, are other breads good too?

Alright, now onto the "health care" questions. The first is, are these type of Ravens prone to Iron Storage disease? I am thinking not really because they are an omnivore that does naturally eat meat. But, I just want to ask all you wise people. The breeder told me it "isn't a major problem".

I am aware that Corvids are prone to West Nile Virus. The breeder told me that I can use a specific vaccine that is used on horses, as long as it has the "proper dosage". Having own early generation hybrid cats, I know that certain vaccines that are perfectly safe for pure domestic cats aren't safe in F1-F4 hybrid cats.

Now, having raised various species of parrots over the years, based on my personal experience, they are prone to "catching human influenza". Aka catching the human "cold/flue". Is that true of Corvus albicollis too? The breeder said they are "as tough as nails". I am guessing that means they are not prone to catching human viruses, but I wanted to ask all you supper smart people.

Wow, I am so sorry for the long post . Thank you all for reading my way too long post and responding. Anyone who wants to add any other helpful into that would be GREAT !

 

[Hankmacaw]

The human cold/flu virus are not zoonotic and are not passed between avians and humans. There are very few zoonotic diseases between humans and avians;
http://www.mtu.edu/research/administration/integrity-compliance/pdf/Zoonotic_Diseases.pdf Add MRSA to this list.

 

[waterfaller1]

I do not know specifics to corvids diet. Although I have always wanted one, I did not see one in my future so I have not researched their diet. I would take the advice of the breeder. He has been breeding them a long time. With caution on the iron storage disease question. AKA hemachromatosis. I was under the impression they can have issue with it. As can some parrots, which a lot of people do not know. I would do some reading on it, so you are familiar. There are PDF files and articles out there if you google them.
I do know they need huge enclosures. Not any cage available, with exception to indoor or outdoor aviaries. They hop, they do not climb. Much like my Aracari. They need a LOT of space to fly, and should never be clipped as some people do parrots.
What has made you interested in Corvids? Their intelligence?
Good luck. I will look forward to following you on your journey.

 

[CatsNbirds]

The human cold/flu virus are not zoonotic and are not passed between avians and humans. There are very few zoonotic diseases between humans and avians;
http://www.mtu.edu/research/administration/integrity-compliance/pdf/Zoonotic_Diseases.pdf Add MRSA to this list.

Thank you, very very much for the article. The vet that I took my hybrid cats to agreed with my "theory" about the parrots getting my virus. I guess this is why it is important to see a avian veterinarian.

I do not know specifics to corvids diet. Although I have always wanted one, I did not see one in my future so I have not researched their diet. I would take the advice of the breeder. He has been breeding them a long time. With caution on the iron storage disease question. AKA hemachromatosis. I was under the impression they can have issue with it. As can some parrots, which a lot of people do not know. I would do some reading on it, so you are familiar. There are PDF files and articles out there if you google them.
I do know they need huge enclosures. Not any cage available, with exception to indoor or outdoor aviaries. They hop, they do not climb. Much like my Aracari. They need a LOT of space to fly, and should never be clipped as some people do parrots.
What has made you interested in Corvids? Their intelligence?
Good luck. I will look forward to following you on your journey.

I do not know the specifics of a corvids diet either . But I am trying to learn . You and a couple of other members seem to be very knowledgeable about your "avian species" of choice. I did some Google searching for those PDF files. I am SURE they are there. I just can't find them . Can you tell me if those PDF files are about diet or Iron Storage Disease/hemachromatosis? I am thinking I could be searching for the "wrong topics now" .

I am guessing you know the breeder I speak of? Or, I could be reading more into it then I should. I am a ditsy at times .

I was under the impression that Corvids could get it too. I have search Google, to the best of my abilities, and am not finding anything. Maybe @Onyxena , the owner of the Von der Deckens Hornbill might know? I know a hornbill isn't really a corvid, but they are both softbilled birds that eat meat. Yes I know, I am grasping at straws.

As to why I became interested in them, this was taken from my introduction post-Okay...so some more pertinent stuff about me . I used to breed various color mutation Indian Ring Neck (Psittacula krameri ), tons of color mutation Peach-face Lovebirds (Agapornis roseicollis), Blue and wild color/type Black Masked Lovebirds (Agapornis personatus), Pallid Blue and Pallid Quakers/Monk Parakeet (Myiopsitta monachus), Blue and Yellow Pacific Parrotlets ( Forpus coelestis) and various color mutation Green Cheek Conure ( color mutations Pyrrhura molinae). I also had a pet Congo African Grey (Psittacus erithacus).

I would also like to add that I liked my Psittacus erithacus a great deal. But, she ( I know it was a female as it laid eggs) was just too "spookish". I mean she would just "get scared for nothing". While I know there was of course a stimulus, it was very hard to pin point, IMHO. Plus, having owned the early generation hybrid cats (my last one died a little over a year ago of cancer) I miss having a "genuine pet" that kept you on your toes. I am thinking since Ravens do not spook as easily as parrots and are crazy like my EG cats, I will have my ideal companion again. Yes of course, I like Corvids cause they are so smart. My EG hybrids could open doors, cabinets, and break stuff. I am hoping the Raven can too .

I am just glad Corvids can't chew like Psittacus erithacus. I was also told that they might just "happily masturbate on you". But they are not aggressive about it or hormonal like parrots. It is just like a giant teil doing it to your hand. This last part came from the breeder.

Lastly, what was once my breeding bird room, that was then turned into the exotic cat hybrid "safe room" will be the Corvus albicollis "safe room". I am not sure what is going in there, other then easy to clean stuff. If you have any idea's that would be great.

Ps- I was considering a Aracari. But they do not seem destructive enough or playful enough for me. I do know I have an odd choice in pets .

 

[waterfaller1]

I have done a ton of research on iron storage disease. I have a mousebird and aracari, both prone to it. I will see if I can get some info together for you later. Running out for errands right now. Type in "Hemochromatosis Birds" and you should find the files and articles.
I know of the breeder, not him personally. He has a good reputation. I would take his advice over any other on diet. I will be back in a couple hours and will finish reading your reply.

 

[waterfaller1]

hemochromatosis birds - Google Search

 

[Hankmacaw]

I found a site about wild Ravens that said to feed them cat food. I have a group of four that stay around every summer and bum off of me.

 

[CatsNbirds]

I have done a ton of research on iron storage disease. I have a mousebird and aracari, both prone to it. I will see if I can get some info together for you later. Running out for errands right now. Type in "Hemochromatosis Birds" and you should find the files and articles.

Thank you, for sharing your information with me. I must say watching the video's of your aracari makes me want one. But I will vicariously live threw you. I hope you do not mind

I know of the breeder, not him personally. He has a good reputation.

That is GREAT to hear, IMHO. Since, the bird breeders that I had worked with to acquire my former breeding stock had NOT heard of the Corvid Ranch. But they said that does not mean anything cause he does NOT breed parrots. Hence, I just talked to him a few times and put my trust in luck. It is GREAT to know he has a good reputation.

I would take his advice over any other on diet.

Okay. I just learned a lot owning the early generation exotic cat hybrids. Meaning, just cause breeders and "experts" say one thing, "experience" says another. Having said that, there is FAR more information on any mammal then any bird. Plus I am sure Brian Blazer knows far more then I ever will about Corvids!

I will be back in a couple hours and will finish reading your reply.

Thank you, very very very much.

Please note, my responses are in red.

hemochromatosis birds - Google Search

That was beyond helpful, I can't thank you enough. I am going to just post some of the links you where kind enough to send me and give you my layperson's opinion and if you would be kind enough to give me your professional opinion that would be GREAT !

From this website/article/PDF http://www.nashvillezoo.org/piciformes/pdf/iron_storage_disease_softbilled_birds.pdf, I got that no one really knows what causes Hemochromatosis and that it is partly environmental stress and might have a genetic component. But that it is manly found in birds that eat fruit/insects or are omnivorous.

But there are no mention of Corvids in the species list. Plus, it states that the bird does NOT need to be tested unless it falls into one of the families with a strong reputation for the disease. What is your opinion?

Another article that I found interesting is this one http://www.nashvillezoo.org/piciformes/pdf/ironstorageinbirds.pdf. This one clearly points out that there might be a genetic cause for Hemochromatosis and that the captive diets of Softbill birds has more iron then there natural diet. This article also says that the more frugivore Hornbills are more prone to "Iron storage disease" then carnivorous ones. Can you kindly give me your wise input on that article ?

Now for some articles/websites on wild/captivity Corvus albicollis: The Zoo in Forest Park & Education Center :: African White-Necked Raven Natural Encounters, Inc. (please note, the White-necked raven is the top species mentioned), camelsandfriends.com White-necked Ravens and Corvus albicollis (White-necked raven) (please read this one, when you have time).

When you have time, could you kindly give me your opinion and share your vast knowledge on these articles/websites with me?

I found a site about wild Ravens that said to feed them cat food. I have a group of four that stay around every summer and bum off of me.

It is very interesting you mention that. I mentiioned that in my introduction post. I assumed a quality dry cat food like Evo (Meat- and Poultry-Based Pet Food – Premium Dog Food, Cat Food, Ferret Food, Dog Treats – EVO Pet Products would be better then Purina Puppy Chow kibble would be better based off my experience with other "exotic" animals. But having looked at this website: Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Tapioca, pearl, dry I am not sure. Since, if you look at the mineral content, it looks high in iron to me. But I have NO IDEA really. So, what do you all think?

What is an adequate diet for a nestling/fledgling crow?
Crows are omnivores, and as such are somewhat easier to raise than some other species. The main thing is, growing youngsters need HIGH PROTEIN diets. Somewhere around 25 - 50% protein. Turkey starter is a good beginning to the diet. High protein dog food or puppy chow is also good and usually easier to obtain. (Both should be supplemented, though.) Look at the bags and get something as high protein as possible. Even then, it's only going to be around 27% protein. (Compare this amount with canned cat or dog food, and you'll see why they are not recommended.) You can supplement the protein content by adding protein powders or unflavored gelatin powder. Also as a part of the basic diet, add boiled eggs (especially important is the yolk) and include the shells (mashed up). Crows need a lot of calcium, so you might want to supplement with some other calcium source too. To 2 parts of the dog food you can add one part of cooked high protein baby cereal, then add one egg per every 2 cups of the formula. This is the basic mixture, and you can supplement it with things like mealworms or crickets, and raw beef kidney. As the birds get older and can feed themselves, offer them peanuts (unsalted), corn, sunflower seeds, fresh fruit, and mealworms or crickets. Do not feed too many mealworms! Mealworms are high in chitin, and can cause blockage problems if fed in too high frequency. (Mealworms alone are not an adequate diet for an insectivorous bird.) Once the crows are old enough to work food on their own (not until late summer or fall, probably), mice and day old chicks are favorite foods, if you can get them. SOURCE: baby crows

What do you all think of that? I am aware that the above is most likely regarding Native (USA/United States) Crows/Ravens. But what do you think for a White-necked raven? Also, what do you think of some of the websites/links I posted above? Lastly, did you mean you feed cat food to a group of wild crows/ravens that hang around you/your land ever summer?

Thank you all very very much !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[expressmailtome]

As Carole said, it is my understanding that corvids are prone to iron storage disease. As such, you should avoid foods with iron and citric acid. Parrot pellets should never be given to softbills. The iron content is much too high. You should only use softbill pellets. Mazuri is considered to be the best for softbills. It was designed with the help of Jerry Jennings, who is known internationally for his work with ramphastids (the toucan family). I would trust what Brian says in terms of diet. Besides him, I only know of Roland Cristo. I have no personal experience with raising corvids. Sorry.

Matt

 

[Bailey]

I take care of a friend's Raven/American Pied Crow Hybrid every time she goes out of town. She feeds Nevermore V-Dog soaked dog food and he gets oatmeal, raspberries, blueberries, brocolli, green beans, peas, etc as part of the daily diet. He gets pine nuts, almonds, pecans, etc as treats. V-Dog is vegan dog food and she doesn't feed any meat whatsoever, but I don't know her reasoning.

He is a handful and is super mischievous..and I wish she would've socialized him better as a young bird. He is now 4 years old and he attacks anyone but her (including me). I highly recommend socializing your chick thoroughly!

 

[waterfaller1]

Holy moly..you are not making this easy. If you are as fastidious at caring for this bird as you are at researching, you are going to make one heck of a bird friend. I have some reading to do. Mazuri is the choice of pellets that Zoos use. It is what I feed Pico and Gryphon, along with low iron fruits.
I am pretty sure Corvids are omnivores with a heavy lean towards meat. Have you checked out the yahoo groups? Yahoo Groups

I will read through your post and check your links. I understand your reference to some breeders, but this is a bit of a different situation. This is a specialty. People wait on lists to get birds from the CR. He would not have such a positive reputation if he was giving out improper info.

 

[VictoriaVague]

Most of this bird's food is obtained from the ground, but it will take food from trees as well. It has been seen to drop a tortoise from a height on to hard ground, preferably on rocks, and then swoop down to eat it, or even pick it up again if not sufficiently broken. White-necked Ravens will also readily take carrion from road kills. Fruit, grain, insects, small reptiles, peanuts and human food are also readily taken and the bird forages in back yards and gardens quite openly.

It is often found in the company of other scavengers such as kites or vultures.

Nests are a bowl of sticks lined with grass hair and wool found mainly on a cliff ledge but will occasionally nest in a tree.

 

[waterfaller1]

I do have a friend who keeps a crow that was handed down to her by a lady who passed away. I could shoot her an e-mail if that helps.

 

[waterfaller1]

That sounds good except I would skip peanuts-known to cause issue with aspergillosis.

 

[waterfaller1]

There are also parrots, quakers come to mind, prone to ISD as well. And they are not particularly fruit eaters. It has to do with how the body metabolizes the iron. It is not difficult to learn what is right for birds who can get this condition. I have a file that lists safe fruits and vegetables I can share with you if you would like.

 

[waterfaller1]

Most of this bird's food is obtained from the ground, but it will take food from trees as well. It has been seen to drop a tortoise from a height on to hard ground, preferably on rocks, and then swoop down to eat it, or even pick it up again if not sufficiently broken. White-necked Ravens will also readily take carrion from road kills. Fruit, grain, insects, small reptiles, peanuts and human food are also readily taken and the bird forages in back yards and gardens quite openly.

It is often found in the company of other scavengers such as kites or vultures.

Nests are a bowl of sticks lined with grass hair and wool found mainly on a cliff ledge but will occasionally nest in a tree.

Hey you, when quoting from a site you really should give credit as to where it came from. This is straight copied from wiki...

 

[VictoriaVague]

That sounds good except I would skip peanuts-known to cause issue with aspergillosis.

Agreed. I would also skip on the peanuts.

Any vaccine you can get for West Nile virus would be good. I've read so many heart breaking accounts of whole populations of wild and captive corvids being wiped out by it

Iron wise, I guess limit red meats, broccoli, spinach etc. If you're not squeamish, live insects are always available from shops selling lizards. High grade raw meat should be fine. Plenty of people make their own cat and dog food out of it.

As scavengers, they are fairly robust and have a broad diet. I think just bear in mind that as a captive bird, his energy requirements are going to be considerably different.

All of this I'm sure you're aware of anyway

I adore corvids.

 

[VictoriaVague]

Hey you, when quoting from a site you really should give credit as to where it came from. This is straight copied from wiki...

I meant to, honest . At work and trying not to get caught

 

[waterfaller1]

 

[CatsNbirds]

As Carole said, it is my understanding that corvids are prone to iron storage disease.

I would think that Corvids are prone to iron storage disease too. But, the breeder is making it sound like it is NO BIG deal. Plus, those lovely articles I got got from waterfaller1 did not mention Corvids, at least not that I could find. Of course, that proves nothing .

As such, you should avoid foods with iron and citric acid.

Okay .

Parrot pellets should never be given to softbills.

Learn something new everyday. I never fed my breeding birds parrot pellets. Just seeds and tons of fresh "human food".

The iron content is much too high.

Okay, thank you.

You should only use softbill pellets. Mazuri is considered to be the best for softbills.

I will get those .

It was designed with the help of Jerry Jennings, who is known internationally for his work with ramphastids (the toucan family). I would trust what Brian says in terms of diet. Besides him, I only know of Roland Cristo.

I have NEVER heard of either person. So, thank you for telling me who to trust. I toucans.

I have no personal experience with raising corvids. Sorry.
I have NO experience with corvids period. So, please do NOT be sorry to me. Thank you for your time.

Matt

@expressmailtome Please note, my responses are in red.

I take care of a friend's Raven/American Pied Crow Hybrid every time she goes out of town.
I am guessing/assuming and we all know what word is in assuming right , that bird came from the Corvid Ranch?

She feeds Nevermore V-Dog soaked dog food and he gets oatmeal, raspberries, blueberries, brocolli, green beans, peas, etc as part of the daily diet.

Is this the V-dog food you speak of: V-dog — v-dog Kibble Is the oatmeal "raw" (dry) or "cooked" (wet)? I am guessing the rest is "raw"?

He gets pine nuts, almonds, pecans, etc as treats.

I have learned that the word "treat" has "different meanings" to different people. So, how often does he consume said "treats"? Sorry for being nosy.

V-Dog is vegan dog food and she doesn't feed any meat whatsoever,

I see that from reading the ingredients. At first I didn't know what the V meant .

but I don't know her reasoning.
I am guessing due to fears of Iron Storage disease. If you could possible ask, that would be great.

He is a handful and is super mischievous..

That is part I am most looking forward to. My EG exotic cat hybrids where like that and I miss it. If you care to define "what makes him a handful and mischievous" that would be great.

and I wish she would've socialized him better as a young bird. He is now 4 years old and he attacks anyone but her (including me).

I always wonder what a Corvid attach would be like. Yes I know, I wonder odd things ! I have only been attacked by parrots and wild Cyanocitta cristata (Blue Jay). The wild Cyanocitta cristata HURT bad. Plus, they went for my hair and face. Is a hybrid Raven the same?

I highly recommend socializing your chick thoroughly!

I will be. I was told that by the owner of the Corvid Ranch/he made that clear. Though, he did not clearly explain the "recommended perimeters" for socializing the bird. I am lucky that I live in an area that/"life style" that will allow that...I HOPE!!!

@Bailey Please note, my responses are in red,

Holy moly..you are not making this easy.

I am sorry . What I can I do to make this easier for you?

If you are as fastidious at caring for this bird as you are at researching, you are going to make one heck of a bird friend.

Thank you. I just like to try and do right by my pets.

I have some reading to do. Mazuri is the choice of pellets that Zoos use.

Okay, I will be getting some. Is this the one: http://www.mazuri.com/product_pdfs/5MI2.pdf?

It is what I feed Pico and Gryphon, along with low iron fruits.

I just have to say, that I Pico! I never considered a bird like Gryphone until I saw yours. They are cute. But that feeding sceduale is a tad too "rigorous" for me. Is Pico so "hard to feed"?

I am pretty sure Corvids are omnivores with a heavy lean towards meat.

I am too. Hence, not sure how much worry/I have down right fear, I should have. Plus, those GREAT websites you gave me, did NOT mention corvids, at least not that I could find. It also said even species prone to "iron issues" that eat more meat then fruit are NOT as "prone to it" as a species that eat mainly fruit. I am just so worried after seeing a friends Hill Mynah bird (Gracula religiosa ...?) die of iron storage disease. He spent a year trying to "formulate" the "right" diet and the bird died within two years.

Have you checked out the yahoo groups? Yahoo Groups

Nope... I never even thought of that :-(. Thank you, thank you and thank you!

I will read through your post and check your links. I understand your reference to some breeders, but this is a bit of a different situation.

Okay and THANK YOU for your time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a specialty. People wait on lists to get birds from the CR.

I am hoping CR is Corvid Ranch and not Craig list. I mentioned that I can be VERY ditsy right?

He would not have such a positive reputation if he was giving out improper info.

That is very very true. He keeps saying Iron storage disease is NOT really a concern with this species. I should just enjoy the bird and they are really tough as nails.

@waterfaller1 Please note, my responses are in red.

I do have a friend who keeps a crow that was handed down to her by a lady who passed away. I could shoot her an e-mail if that helps.

If you would be so kind, I would LOVE you to do so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks .

That sounds good except I would skip peanuts-known to cause issue with aspergillosis.

Okay, will do. !

Agreed. I would also skip on the peanuts.

Now, this leads me to another question, I am sure you are all so tired of my questions, I swear I will be "gone soon" . Anyway, does that mean no human grade peanut butter?

Any vaccine you can get for West Nile virus would be good.

Okay, thank you. I will just get the name/check my email and contact the veterinarian. I just want to make sure that I can get it.

I've read so many heart breaking accounts of whole populations of wild and captive corvids being wiped out by it

Me too. I also DO NOT handle death (unless from old age/true accident) well. So, I want to try and keep my Raven as safe/healthy as possible, for as long as possible. Do you happen to know how effective these vaccines are in corvids? I know many vaccines for pure Felis catus (domestic cat) are NOT as effective as people are lead to believe.

Iron wise, I guess limit red meats, broccoli, spinach etc.

I can cut out the red meat and use feeder mice/rats and F/T (fresh thawed) rabbits. I can skip the broccoli and the spinach all together.

If you're not squeamish, live insects are always available from shops selling lizards.

Not a problem. Before breeding the birds, I had VARIOUS reptiles and amphibians. Are crickets, Zophobas morio (Supper worms) as larva pupa and adult good? I am guessing Tenebrio molitor (Meal Worms) are only "useable" as pupa and adults? Is the fat and iron content too high in Galleria Mellonella (Wax Worm) and Bombyx mori (Silkworms)? Lastly, how much/how many insects would this "rather large" bird need to eat and how often?

High grade raw meat should be fine. Plenty of people make their own cat and dog food out of it.
I am one of them . I am guessing chicken, turkey, and duck should be fine? Should I be feeding organ meats and or bone? With my cats you need the right compliment of organs/bone/skin/meat.

As scavengers, they are fairly robust and have a broad diet.

That is exactly what the breeder says!!!!

I think just bear in mind that as a captive bird, his energy requirements are going to be considerably different.

EXACTLY!!!! That is also the part that worries me.....at the moment....almost to "death".

All of this I'm sure you're aware of anyway

Your much too kind. I would say NO. Just read all my questions. and thanks!

I adore corvids.

I think maybe you should get one, you know way more then me. Plus, we can exchange stories .

@VictoriaVague Please note, my responses are in red.