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Undigested seed in droppings = PDD?

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katkami

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@Blu I'm so sorry for your loss :( We did discuss the possibility of putting Tiki on Celebrex "just in case", but she didn't think it makes sense to do it yet when she's maintaining her weight and not exhibiting any other symptoms. She said it's something that gets prescribed as the PDD acts up for limited period of times and it's supposed to just slow it, not cure it. It's something I will consider as an option if Tiki's condition worsens (I'd likely opt for putting her on that rather then doing the biopsy, for example).

[edit] We also didn't have any intentions of adding more to our flock, 3 is more than enough for us anyway.
 
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Hankmacaw

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How is Tiki doing? Did you guys ever identify the problem?

I keep thinking about you guys.
 

katkami

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Thanks for asking! I'm not sure if you saw my post (#39) - I think the convention here is to update the thread topic if there's a major update, but I couldn't figure out how to do that. :(

Since speaking with the vet, she's still the same. She's maintaining her weight on her new diet, but we're still finding "chunks" and we're not sure what they are since she isn't eating seed/nuts anymore.
 

Macawnutz

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Thanks for asking! I'm not sure if you saw my post (#39) - I think the convention here is to update the thread topic if there's a major update, but I couldn't figure out how to do that. :(

Since speaking with the vet, she's still the same. She's maintaining her weight on her new diet, but we're still finding "chunks" and we're not sure what they are since she isn't eating seed/nuts anymore.
The administrators have to update the title. :D

Maintaining her weight is great news. At least if she is maintaining you have time to determine other problems. Other than her poop is she acting normal? Playing and eating? Just take it one test at a time with your vet, I do hope you get some answers soon. :hug8::hug8:
 

katkami

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She's definitely a happy girl otherwise. To illustrate, here's a photo of her a couple days ago (we removed the tape from the box)

fling-a-portal-fly-1341278453.jpg

We're holding off on tests unless we see her weight drop or any other symptoms. I will definitely let you guys know if anything changes.
 
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savvy_angel_devil

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Re: Undigested nuts in droppings = PDD?

:hug8:

Hi. i just read ur post and came to check on PDD and what other owners guide us related to this horrible disease. I have an IRN who is 11yrs plus and i adopted him almost 2 years ago. He was neglected and lived in extremely unhygienic conditions for years. Its been more than a year since he first started passing undigested food in his poop. the doc put him on anti bacterial antibiotics and got all his tests done that is possible where i live. All came back negetive and he would get better while on meds and then again would pass food n vomit when the meds stop. Then finally without biopsy the doc said he might have PDD as everything else was ruled out. Sighhh. Its been a non stop struggle since then. we have good days and bad days. On 23rd sept 2011 i i thought he would not make it and had almost passed away but one doze if Celebrex/Celecoxib save him and he gets one doze of this medicine every single day. i just cant stop.

things that help me to maintain his weight and keep him going.

1.Celebrex
2. Supplements - He gets them daily specially multi vit, Avi gain and healthy enzyms and probiotics
3. Syringe feeding- on bad days when he refuses to eat especially since he is a heavy molter his molting phase is the worst. syringe feeding keeps him going. i m not talking abt crop feeding but feeing him with a normal syringe. He is so use to it now. somedays when he has swelling in his crop he spits out everything but still this is what helps me maintain his weight and keep him going
4. keep baby food or recovery formula in stock- on bad days when he cannot digest normal food n would pass it out undigested and throws up these r the two things that i feed him and what helps him get over these episodes.
5. please avoid seeds as they aggravate indigestion
6. the bird may not be absorbing nutrition as passing out food. i often give him fruit juices and coconut water and steam veggies and blend them and store it and give him that via syringe so that his immunity doesnt go down.

Its been 14 months since he got sick and i have been following all this to keep him going. hope this helps u in some way and would love to hear from u. remember he will have good days. days when he wont feel sick and u will forget that he has PDD.. I live for those days.


mitthi1.jpg
 

katkami

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Hi all,

Tiki is still hanging in but I can't get her to gain weight anymore, so I thought I'd reach out to you guys to see what you think. I'll try to be brief because I could easily write a wall of text.
  • Last year: 1100 grams
  • June: 950 grams which the dr said was low but OK
  • June-August we've gotten her up to 1000 and back down to 950ish
  • Today: she's 940 grams

Weight is with the same scale, same time of day.

She has good days and bad days food-wise. On the bad days (like today), her crop is empty and she does the baby feeding response.

We took her off seed and put her on pellets.
This was a think 1.5 months ago. I think this is the major contributor to her weight loss. She's picky.

Reasons why this might not be PDD:
  • She's never vomited.
  • Her crop empties fine, it never backs up
  • She's picky about what she eats.
  • It seems like food goes through her too fast, not too slow
  • Her droppings are normal now (no undigested food, but no seed either)

Her Diet:
  • Breakfast: 1/12 slice of a whole wheat english muffin with sunflower, peanut or almond butter and harrisons enzymes. She doesn't eat much of the muffin, just wants the butter.
  • Pellets: (my husband does this part so bare with me) - a blend of Kaytee fruits, veggies and nuts. Plus we added some harrisons specialty pellets to it. *I know kaytee is less than ideal but since she was showing interest in it, I figured it was a good start to the pellet diet
  • Bowl: A mix of Fresh fuit (typically blueberries, apple, papaya or grapes), veggies (things like carrots, peapods & broccoli), birdie bread and maybe some cheerios or like whole grain rice cakes with no sodium. Also probiotics & harrisons enzymes
  • Dinner: Possibly what we are eating if appropriate - whole grain pasta, a little pizza, some sweet potato, etc

On "bad" days like today I give her hand feeding formula in a syringe with a little applesauce, enzymes and probiotics.

She's showing less and less interest in her bowls. I can't tell if she's digesting the pellets or just grinding them up for fun. The reason this seems like she's being picky is because I know there are certain foods she will always eat no matter what. I don't think this is a case of her stuffing herself and not getting the nutrients. She can be at a point where she's doing the baby feeding response, and she'll still turn down everything we give her unless it's something that's peanut butter coated or pasta. Sidenote: Is whole grain tortellini good for them? She loves it.

What I think I'm doing wrong:
I think it's possible she looks forward to breakfast and dinner so much that she just doesn't bother eating the stuff she doesn't want. I feel like I'm reinforcing it by giving her hand-feeding formula and yummy butter treats when she's begging for food. But on the flip-side - I have to feed her and I don't want to put her back on a seed diet.

How can I tell how much of this is her transition to pellets vs. her having an legitimate digestive medical disorder of some sort? Any tips on how to fatten her up?
 

MommyBird

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I don't have a real answer for you, just some comments.........
I think a lot of us have been where you are, trying to figure it out and find the right balance. I think you are doing great.

My birds will sometimes not touch their food for a day, then eat a bunch the next day. It's normal I think, however I don't see any longterm weight loss from it.
They are also very social eaters, and I think it could be possible Tiki only wants to eat in a group, with you eating or socializing, than by herself.
You could add some red palm oil, which provides precursors to Vitamin A and is good for them. It also adds some calories.
I would highly recommend getting her some palm nuts when they are back in season. It really brings my Amazons to their dishes, but being Amazons, they don't need much of an excuse.
The Cozy Nestbox Home of fully-flighted, hand-fed companion birds, fresh palm nuts & other all-natural foraging treats
 

allison

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I think you should first rule out asper. My pionus Toady died of asper and had similar symptoms. When I got him he was thin. He was always very picky about food and never had much of an appetite. His stool never contained whole seeds but were often grainy and not fully digested. They were sometimes a little smelly as well. We did all sorts of tests on him and could never quite figure out what was wrong. He even tested negative for asper when we ran panels. PDD was a disease my vet considered but he never vomited or showed neurological signs. My other pionus died very suddenly from asper which wasn't diagnosed until necropsy so we started Toady on asper medication just in case. He seemed to improve slightly and was able to gain some weight but suddenly got very ill and died a few days later. On necropsy my vet discovered several thick spore plaques in his lungs, air sacs, and digestive system. He probably had asper for years. Also upon necropsy my vet found no signs of PDD which had been a slight concern to me.

I would recommend getting X-rays. On X-rays your vet might be able to see mold spores or if it's PDD they might be able to see an enlarged proventriculous.
 
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roxynoodle

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I don't know if this will help or not, but I have chronic pancreatitis with pancreatic exocrine insufficiency. Because my pancreas is unable to secrete the digestive enzymes that break down food into my small intestine, I can't digest food either, and yes, it can be seen in stool (sorry for being graphic). I have to take supplemental pancreatic enzymes to maintain weight. It was a very long road to get back to a normal weight for me, and I don't seem to be able to surpass that (not that i want to be fat, but yes, I stay that same now that I got to this point). I have fat malabsorbtion as well, so I don't expect I could gain weight if I tried.

I do know birds can also get pancreatitis and I have to say this is what it sounds like to me. The pancreas is primarily responsible for breaking down food so calories and nutrients can be absorbed by the intestines.

Have any tests been done to look at the pancreas or check for function?
 

Naiera

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No words of wisdom but I wanted to say Tiki is beautiful and I hope whatever may be wrong is something easily remedied. Will keep you both in my thoughts :)
 
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