Pictures Undigested food in poop - update

[Hawk12237]

Ollie has had undigested food in his poop for a few months now. The vet sent away fecal material for testing. Results were inconclusive/nothing abnormal. He seemed to get a little better. Then recently there was more undigested material. Ollie seemed always hungry and tired. He was doing the rounds, stealing everybirdie's millet spray. Here he is in Kobe's cage:

This was Ollie's poop straight after eating the millet, which shocked me:

I called the vet out again and suggested we try him on a course of broad spectrum antibiotics since it had been going on so long. She agreed. So he's on a 7 day course of Baytril. This is day 4 and his poops are looking markedly better:

I have been terrified for months that it could be Avian Bornavirus Ganglioneuritis, since he has also been vomiting on and off. Even though the vet is lovely and has an interest in birds, there are no avian vets here so I haven't had the confidence to ask for a blood test - apparently they take blood from the wing which is slow and painful. So I am hugely relieved the Baytril seems to be working... fingers crossed.

Hmmm, not digesting the food properly. I'd recommend getting some digestive enzymes from vet. Using a 1/4 tea spoon to a cup of food.

 

[Fuzzy]

Never heard of that brand of DMG! I know the Vetri-DMG is tasteless (Charlie *LOVES* the stuff! So does Merlin!) but I never tried the powder stuff...

Good to know there's other options out there!

Thanks for telling me about the Vetri-DMG @Monica. Excited to see I can get it in the UK. I'll try that one next - the ingredients are very similar to the US Animal of Vermont I used to get.

 

[Fuzzy]

Hmmm, not digesting the food properly. I'd recommend getting some digestive enzymes from vet. Using a 1/4 tea spoon to a cup of food.

Thanks Michael, I'll look into that if the problem continues.

 

[Hankmacaw]

My Jasper has had Prozyme daily for a long time now. Without it she would starve to death - she has almost no appetite and needs every bit of nourishment from the food she does eat. Prozyme predigests the food into components that can be directly absorbed.

29. AVIAN ENZYME | Harrison's Bird Foods

www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com

Amazon.com : Prozyme Powder, 85g : Pet Supplies

Amazon.com : Prozyme Powder, 85g : Pet Supplies

smile.amazon.com

 

[enigma731]

Yeah, prozyme has also been AMAZING for a couple of my birds who had lost a lot of weight due to yeast infections. (They're very senior, hence opportunistic infections.)

 

[Fuzzy]

Thanks, guys, you are a wealth of info!! After some Googling I have found the Prozyme Powder in the UK (although it is shipping from the US) and just ordered it.

The Harrison's Avian Enzyme seems to be discontinued over here. There is Harrison's Fauna Flora which looks similar but I don't know if I can buy it here. I have Harrison's UK number so will ring and ask them about it:

Harrison's Bird Food UK

 

[Monica]

I think I need to go dig through my stuff now and find what I do have... interested in that Prozyme! Might have to get it, too!

 

[NNC]

This is what happened to my two birds.
An Alexandrine and a Congo Grey.

They both have Borna Virus and Ganglioneuritis.They both had secondary bacterial infections which is what I took them to the vet for initially.
I suspect Borna Virus could be the case with your bird.
it is not normal for birds to have undigested food in their feces.

Our Alexandrine is doing well now after 6 months of being very sick.
Secondary Bacterial infections ,not eating , diarrhea, passing undigested food ,seizures and weakness.
we went back and forth to our avian vet and were going to put him to sleep it got so bad.
The Robenacoxib and hand feeding saved his life
He has been on Robenacoxib injections and Harrisons Recovery food and Juvenile formula.

The Congo Grey recently became ill so hopefully he will respond as our Alexandrine has.

 

[Hankmacaw]

@NNC Really glad that you found this thread.

 

[Fuzzy]

I'm so very sorry for your birds, NNC. That's good that your Alexandrine is doing well.

Perhaps I should post an update on Ollie. I had a good talk with my vet about him. The plan is that if Ollie gets worse or starts losing weight I am to bring him in to have bloods taken and an X-ray of his proventriculus to see if it is larger than normal. Apparently anti-inflammatories have been proven not to be effective in tests so he is reluctant to prescribe them.

I have contacted Leslie Moran and am working with her on a holistic dietary plan for Ollie. Continuing with the DMG (which Leslie recommended in the first place some years ago for his Asper), Milk Thistle, plus a nutritious diet based on a complete sprouted protein. We have just added GSE which she made up for me as a glycerite according to his weight. GSE is able to kill viruses as well as bacteria and fungus.... here's hoping! Also got him on PB8 probiotics as most avian probiotics/prebiotics contain just one or two strains with a lot of sugar - this one contains 8 strains and 14 billion active cultures. And Equazen Baby which contains anti-inflammatory Omega 3.

Ollie was very active this morning. Here he was in the conservatory with Bobbie (Ollie Orange-wing is on the left):

 

[Hankmacaw]

That seems odd to me that your vet does not feel that anti-inflammatorys are not beneficial for ABV and PDD. My understanding and from my vet and the reading I've done is that Celebrex (an NSAID - non-steroid anti-inflammatory drug) has seen some success in, not so much treatment of the disease, but maintenance. Of course, new studies come out constantly.

 

[webchirp]

Agree...Dr. Orosz uses celebrex as a go-to. She also prescribes it when I put some of my guys on antibiotics.

 

[Fuzzy]

Another update:

I managed to take Ollie to the vet today (our nightly crate training paid off). Kobe came along to support his friend. Ollie has not been so well of late. Starting from 29th Feb, vomiting and anorexia for two separate days. He lost about 25gms each time. Between that he was eating cooked sprouted/soaked mash with gusto. I was able to add omega 3 oils to that and probiotics. He was drinking organic tart cherry juice with added DMG and Milk Thistle.

In the last three days, Ollie has decided to do some exploring. He has found the kitchen. I think it was driven by hunger... yet when I offer favourite foods he takes and drops them. He made a bee line for the clothes drying rack I have in the kitchen:

He looks beautiful, but he is not well. His diet has completely changed in the last couple of days. He now eats grapes as you can see (he never used to like them). And he found the fruit bowl so is stuffing himself with mango:

I have got an anti-inflammatory (Meloxicam) for him. I have ordered some Lafeber's Emeraid Omnivore on the advice of a friend, and also came away from the vet with some to tide me over until the one I ordered arrives. The vet took Ollie away to feel him and listen to his breathing (he also has Aspergillosis). He said that he has more flesh covering his keel bone than we expected - for now. That I need to keep nebulizing. He didn't have time to X-ray or take bloods but said if I wanted it done to make sure it was sooner rather than later so that he would be strong enough to withstand the anaesthetic.

This is like a nightmare. The vet was also concerned that I should keep the flock as closed, no more new additions, which I certainly agreed with.

 

[Hawk12237]

Another update:

I managed to take Ollie to the vet today (our nightly crate training paid off). Kobe came along to support his friend. Ollie has not been so well of late. Starting from 29th Feb, vomiting and anorexia for two separate days. He lost about 25gms each time. Between that he was eating cooked sprouted/soaked mash with gusto. I was able to add omega 3 oils to that and probiotics. He was drinking organic tart cherry juice with added DMG and Milk Thistle.

In the last three days, Ollie has decided to do some exploring. He has found the kitchen. I think it was driven by hunger... yet when I offer favourite foods he takes and drops them. He made a bee line for the clothes drying rack I have in the kitchen:

He looks beautiful, but he is not well. His diet has completely changed in the last couple of days. He now eats grapes as you can see (he never used to like them). And he found the fruit bowl so is stuffing himself with mango:

I have got an anti-inflammatory (Meloxicam) for him. I have ordered some Lafeber's Emeraid Omnivore on the advice of a friend, and also came away from the vet with some to tide me over until the one I ordered arrives. The vet took Ollie away to feel him and listen to his breathing (he also has Aspergillosis). He said that he has more flesh covering his keel bone than we expected - for now. That I need to keep nebulizing. He didn't have time to X-ray or take bloods but said if I wanted it done to make sure it was sooner rather than later so that he would be strong enough to withstand the anaesthetic.

This is like a nightmare. The vet was also concerned that I should keep the flock as closed, no more new additions, which I certainly agreed with.

He is a beautiful bird... My hopes that he gets well.

 

[enigma731]

Wait, what's the timeline on the asper and the undigested food? I'm sorry he's not doing well. I would ask the vet about Reglan if you haven't n

 

[Shezbug]

I am sorry he is not doing so well Roz. Keeping you both in my thoughts and sending lots of hugs and well wishes

 

[Clueless]

oh man. So sorry.

 

[Ulis_Beast]

Poor Ollie. He is gorgeous.
I can't even imagine how hard all this must be!
Sending you love and healing thoughts.

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

 

[Fuzzy]

Thanks everyone for your lovely words and thoughts for Ollie.

@enigma731 Ollie had Asper before he came to live with me 9.5 years ago - it developed in his previous home where he was kept in unsanitary conditions for 4 years - they didn't clean him out or let him out of his tiny cage. He has an enveloped Aspergilloma in a thoracic air sac. He also had inflamed air sacs, scarred and milky air sac membranes, and sinusitis with a collapsed nare. Personally I think he has ABG/ABV/PDD.

Yesterday he was in trauma from being handled at the vet, so he hardly ate anything, therefore losing weight again. Today he is eating quite well which is a relief. No vomiting today. I am so stressed with all the supplements I am trying to get into him (keep forgetting some), not having the meds I wanted for him, and trying to get him to eat and drink.