Pictures Undigested food in poop - update

[enigma731]

Btw you can also have an infection without an elevated white count if the infection is very chronic or there's something off with the bird's immune system. And you can have both an infection AND kidney disease, or an infection causing kidney disease. Maybe you've already done this, but if she were my bird, I'd want to know why and how the vet is so sure infection is not a factor. Maybe there's a good explanation but in the absence of one, it doesn't all add up for me.

 

[sunnysmom]

I hope Ollie feels better.

 

[Fuzzy]

Thanks Michelle.

Saturday was a bad day when Ollie ate very little including refusing all beloved cashew pieces for training and slept most of the time. Sunday morning poop had some bits in it again , then he began to pick up in mood and appetite in the evening. Today was better - ate more, more interactive and wanted a shower!

Very keen to train tonight - practically flew into the carrier for his cashew pieces! Two more days of Baytril to go. I am hoping it is the Baytril that is making him tired and off colour - it's certainly giving him watery poops. Now he is getting DMG and Milk Thistle nightly too. I had stopped nebulizing with F10 but two mornings ago he had slightly laboured breathing (he has respiratory issues) so tonight was the second night of nebulizing again.

 

[enigma731]

Baytril definitely can do that. How are his poops today? His wings are so beautiful!!

 

[Fuzzy]

Thanks enigma! Poops have been fine all through the Baytril. It was just that Sunday morning when I was sad to see some undigested food again. I am hoping that it was the Baytril pushing things through his gut fast since he had a rough day before that. Poops look fine today. I am still hoping, praying it isn't PDD.

 

[fashionfobie]

Sending you good thoughts Ollie! I am so sorry you don't feel well sweet little guy.

 

[enigma731]

I'm obviously not a vet but it really doesn't seem to fit PDD to me. I do wonder if he needs a longer Baytril course though. How long has it been?

 

[MommyBird]

Hi Roz, Hope Ollie has a good day today!
How has his weight been over the last couple months?

 

[Clueless]

Still praying for my little feathered friend

 

[Fuzzy]

I haven't been able to weigh him in the last 7 days, but before that his weight has been stable at around 370gms for a year. I wouldn't be surprised if he has lost a little weight in the last week as he has been eating much less with wet poops on and off.

Have to say I am feeling totally stressed out and broken about this. I can't lose my beloved Ollie. Thank you for all the good thoughts for him - they help a lot. I am clinging to the thought that you are right, enigma. This will be the 7th day on Baytril (it is meant to be his last). I think I will continue for a few days longer... there is still some left in the bottle.

 

[Fuzzy]

Missed my window to edit, but just wanted to add that the antibiotics seem to be working - surely antibiotics wouldn't have an effect on a virus? I haven't a clue - just trying to apply common sense here.

 

[enigma731]

Has anyone actually said they think he has PDD or is that entirely your fear? I'm not trying to dismiss it, I've been there, I'm just curious what the outside impressions are.

 

[MommyBird]

antibiotics do NOT affect viruses
noticeable weight loss is one of the symptoms of PDD, unless it is one of the cases when all symptoms are neurological. I don't think you've been seeing that?
They may or may not have an appetite but still have weight loss.
If he's been worrying you for a year without weight loss I would look for other causes besides PDD.
I wish you had access to a vet who could actually do some tests. Guessing isn't effective unless you get lucky.

 

[Fuzzy]

No - nobody has said they think he has PDD (only understandable online reactions to the pictures of his poops). I said I was afraid it might be PDD to the vet, but she said that we'd see if he responded to the antibiotics first.

This all started in the late summer when I thought eating unripe strawberries was the problem. There were strawberry plants hanging in the aviary which he has left alone until this year. When he ran out of the red he started eating the green. Another thought is that it could be something he caught from outdoor birds in the aviary as he was out there every day. I do keep it washed down, but I could have missed something (it doesn't have a solid roof). This is the first time he has been on antibiotics for it. A few months ago his poops were sent off and results were negative for everything tested for, so I was told to keep an eye on him.

At the beginning of the year I happened to attend an online live webinar by Dr Todd Driggers about the latest thoughts about ABV and PDD. How that it is likely passed vertically from mother or father to the egg. Also that if a bird is highly sexed it can activate it if a bird already tests positive for ABV, which is another reason why we shouldn't encourage nesty behaviour. Along the same lines, Ollie was pretty highly sexed through the summer which I couldn't really do anything about (it wasn't directed at me), but it did cross my mind that it wasn't good re activating the virus (not that he has ever been tested for it).

I have known a couple of Amazons who had PDD - interestingly their first symptoms were lack of balance. Ollie's balance is fine. He turns circles with no problem on cue for cashews.

 

[Fuzzy]

Debbie, no not seeing any neurological symptoms at all. The stable weight is making me feel better. He still looks in excellent condition. I cannot feel his keel bone because he doesn't like being handled. He has been roughly the same weight for the 9 years I have had him. He put on a little weight at the beginning (which he needed to) and has stayed there. I am beginning to have hope he doesn't have PDD.

 

[MommyBird]

well, that sounds hopeful. I hope the antibiotics will do the trick. Like Hankmacaw I would suggest a trial of celebrex, not metacam, if you are still at a loss. It could help with inflammation in digestive or heart issues. I wish you could get bloodwork for kidney, liver etc and xray for heart to start with. Blood from the jugular has always bothered me more than my birds, I have to look at the floor. Brainstorming is possible, but it's nice to have data.

 

[Fuzzy]

Thanks, Debbie. If there are still more problems the next thing on the cards is to do bloods. I hope, if it comes to it, they take it from the jugular. All the avian vets I have had experience with in the past have taken it from the jugular. I can't bear the thought of a painful and slow draw from the wing as the vet here suggested. I am glad we brainstormed regardless. Celebrex not Metacam is noted.

 

[Monica]

Re: DMG - if using liquid Vetri-DMG (there's a powder version of DMG that was made by Avitech, may be a new company making it now?), there's instructions on the bottle

The dosage for birds is 1 drop per 100 grams of body weight and can be given up to twice a day. If you have a 30 gram bird, 1 drop is still fine! (even twice a day)


@Fuzzy I hope you are able to figure out what's going on with Ollie! I'll be keeping you two in my thoughts!

 

[Fuzzy]

Thanks @Monica

Years ago I was using US Animal of Vermont (125mg) for dogs, cats and birds. Directions were as Monica said: 1 drop per 100gms body weight. The company stopped making it. I tried other brands and they were disgusting - really bitter. More recently I have found Foodscience of Vermont (300mg) which is tasteless like the original one. However it is twice as strong, so I am using half the dose:

FoodScience of Vermont Liquid DMG, Daily Dietary Supplement to Support Endurance and Immune System Function, 300 mg Aangamik DMG, 2 Fl. Ounces : Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care

FoodScience of Vermont Liquid DMG, Daily Dietary Supplement to Support Endurance and Immune System Function, 300 mg Aangamik DMG, 2 Fl. Ounces : Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[Monica]

Never heard of that brand of DMG! I know the Vetri-DMG is tasteless (Charlie *LOVES* the stuff! So does Merlin!) but I never tried the powder stuff...

Good to know there's other options out there!