Two budgies - when does the bickering/fighting become a concern?

[Ed's_Birds]

Hi all,
I have two budgies, Mango and Mochi. I think Mango is a female and Mochi is a male, but can't tell for sure. They should both be under a year old.
I first got Mango and tamed her, then got Mochi a few months later and tamed him as well. Then I introduced them to each other. They took to each other almost immediately and it even got to the point where I even got a little jealous that all they wanted to do was be with each other and not me. They would always be preening each other, feeding each other, perched next to each other, etc. This lasted about a few weeks.

However, for the past few weeks, Mochi seems to have gotten very territorial and Mango seems a bit wary of him. They now rarely preen each other and rarely feed each other. They do sometimes sit next to each other, but only if Mochi allows it. Otherwise, he tends to angrily lunge at Mango and scare her off. At worst, he will chase her around the cage and intimidate her. But it has never escalated to full-on/extended fighting. Mango usually seems to just back off and run away. She still has access to food and water, though she usually has to wait for Mochi to be done first (he doesn't let her eat when he's eating... despite multiple food bowls).

They're in an 24" x 18" x 27" cage, so it should be large enough for two budgies... I also let them out of the cage for several hours a day and they have playgrounds and trees all around the room, so plenty of space. The fighting and bickering doesn't happen as often outside of the cage, but still occasionally does.
I also have two food bowls, plenty of toys and high perches all around the cage for them to share. I have no idea what caused this sudden behavior shift in Mochi. He seems to be molting a bit but can it really explain his aggressiveness now?

I did separate Mochi in a different room for a few days, then re-arranged the entire cage when I introduced him back to Mango. It worked for a few days, but Mochi is back to being aggressive now.

At what point do I need to separate them permanently? There hasn't been any blood or full-on/extended fighting. But that said, it doesn't seem fair to Mango that she has to live cautiously around Mochi... But when I did have them separated, they would be flock calling to each other non-stop. So they still seem to want each other's company??
I don't really have the room for another cage either unless I downsize the current cage... so I'm really hoping I won't have to do that.

Another thing I was thinking of trying was giving them more darkness hours to see if it helps. They currently get around 12 hours of darkness/sleep. But any additional ideas would be helpful, thanks!

 

[Shezbug]

@Ripshod @Destiny

Can you post a clear pic of your birds front on in good lighting? Someone will tell you what sex your birds are. I think it is usually the female that is the bossy one in pairs of budgies- all my trouble making bossy budgies have been female but I have also been lucky enough to never have any that were bossy to the point of stressing their cage mates.

Do they have enough perches and toys in the cage? Are the bowls spread well apart?

 

[Sparkles99]

Is the 24" measurement the length? Please clarify, and, yes, post pictures! I love the please-sex-my-budgie threads.

 

[Ed's_Birds]

24" is the length and 27" is the height! And the bird pictures as requested:

Mango is a full yellow (lutino?) budgie



Mochi is yellow/blue/white:



They should have plenty of perches (all with a variety of textures) and toys. I guess the food bowls are pretty close, so maybe moving them further apart could be helpful?

Thanks all!

 

[Sparkles99]

I think Mochi is female. Do you have a picture of Mango in natural light?

 

[Ed's_Birds]

I think Mochi is female. Do you have a picture of Mango in natural light?

Hmm is this a better pic?

 

[Sparkles99]

Yes, they are both female. As they mature, they may not remain fast friends from what I've heard. I don't have females, but even some males don't get along - I have two who live alone. Could you get a second, identical cage so that they could live as neighbors rather than room mates?

@Lori D Pert @Lady Jane

 

[Lady Jane]

At what point do I need to separate them permanently?

I think you may already be at that point. I would not wait for an injury to occur first. Yes, they will call to each other when apart because they are flock oriented. It may not be permanent though. I think it would be okay to let them out together, however. You don't want either one to be under stress because that can affect their health.

 

[Ed's_Birds]

Hmm okay unfortunately my current space for them does not allow for two of the same identical cage. I might be able to fit two slightly smaller (table-top) cages though. A big concern of mine though is I would basically double the amount of cleaning I would have to do (and I'm already drowning from that with just one cage).
Any suggestions for easy to clean cages that trap the bird mess inside as much as possible? I looked into Vision bird cages with the debris guard at the bottom and they seem promising, but I've also read some mixed reviews about them (in particular how you have to basically take apart the whole cage just to clean the bottom tray).

Or any lifehacks for keeping the bird mess contained with a regular cage? The way I have the cage set up, I basically have to move couches and tables to be able to vacuum under the cage, so I really prefer a cage that can trap the debris inside haha

 

[owlsthetic]

Hmm okay unfortunately my current space for them does not allow for two of the same identical cage. I might be able to fit two slightly smaller (table-top) cages though. A big concern of mine though is I would basically double the amount of cleaning I would have to do (and I'm already drowning from that with just one cage).
Any suggestions for easy to clean cages that trap the bird mess inside as much as possible? I looked into Vision bird cages with the debris guard at the bottom and they seem promising, but I've also read some mixed reviews about them (in particular how you have to basically take apart the whole cage just to clean the bottom tray).

Or any lifehacks for keeping the bird mess contained with a regular cage? The way I have the cage set up, I basically have to move couches and tables to be able to vacuum under the cage, so I really prefer a cage that can trap the debris inside haha

I had a vision cage before for my budgie and I disliked it a lot. Replaced it as soon as I saved up the funds to do so. It was definitely a pain to clean. You do have to take it apart to clean it. I always felt like it was too wobbly with just the clips to secure it. Food/water trays were too low so I constantly had to clean poop off of them.

I would go for stacked cages if you don't have space for two of the same cages. That way you still have the width for the same amount of space. Something like this?

 

[Ed's_Birds]

Okay I think I can work with stacked cages but would the birds get lonely? If I had them side-by-side, they would at least be able to see each other, but with a stacked cage they would be not be able to directly see each other.
Mango tends to get lonely and when she does, she begs to be let out of the cage. When she and Mochi were friends, this behavior stopped. I'm worried with stacked cages, she will end up being lonely again. I originally got Mochi to try and give Mango a bird friend for the times I couldn't give her attention..

And also they don't even seem to interact much outside of the cage anymore (and when they do, Mochi is still aggressive)... Will they learn to chill out after being separated and be friends outside of the cage? I'm just wondering if it is better if I try to rehome one and try and find a male budgie companion for the other...?

 

[Sparkles99]

Is there a way to creatively rearrange things so that they could be beside each other? Sometimes it helps to ask someone who is not part of the household if they could see any way to do this.

 

[owlsthetic]

Okay I think I can work with stacked cages but would the birds get lonely? If I had them side-by-side, they would at least be able to see each other, but with a stacked cage they would be not be able to directly see each other.
Mango tends to get lonely and when she does, she begs to be let out of the cage. When she and Mochi were friends, this behavior stopped. I'm worried with stacked cages, she will end up being lonely again. I originally got Mochi to try and give Mango a bird friend for the times I couldn't give her attention..

And also they don't even seem to interact much outside of the cage anymore (and when they do, Mochi is still aggressive)... Will they learn to chill out after being separated and be friends outside of the cage? I'm just wondering if it is better if I try to rehome one and try and find a male budgie companion for the other...?

Hmm... as Sparkles suggested would it be possible for you to rearrange the room to make more room somehow?

I think a divided cage might be a good choice if that's the situation since you can take out and put in the divider depending on the situation and they'll still be able to see each other with the divider. The one I linked above is still a bit small (min. cage size for budgies should be 24" but if there's really no space I personally consider them being able to socialize more of an priority). But if you do manage to find more space by rearranging I think a divided flight cage like this would be a better choice myself.

I feel the sliding trays are still 100000% better than the vision cages where you have to take off the top to clean the bottom tray and grate so those cages would be my pick.

 

[Ed's_Birds]

Thanks all! I'm starting to notice a pattern - the fights tend to occur around bed time, usually over one of the prime sleeping perches. I'm thinking of equalizing those high perches so that they're all roughly the same height so that there is no one best spot. I might even try adding a divider up at the top of the cage so that they can both sleep in a "different" part of the cage (I found that this tactic worked very well when feeding them treats; I put a divider over the bowl they eat from and they stop fighting).

Hopefully that fixes things, but if not, I definitely have more backup ideas now, so thanks everyone for the feedback!