Training Two Birds

[JMC822]

Hey All,

I have two 17 going on 18-year-old female parrots that have resided together for almost 17 years. One is a Quaker named Nikki who recently had a wing amputated due to a tumor on her wing and the other is a sun conure Sunny. They have been in separate cages since the quaker's surgery but I let them out during the day so they can interact. I work from home so I have them in my office. They both love me (loves kisses and scratches) but also love each other.

Nikki is the braver of the two and so when I work with them I use Nikki as my model student to show Sunny the desired behavior.

What's the best way to train Sunny to be less of a shadow to Nikki when it comes to training commands. Seriously, if Nikki jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, Sunny would totally follow. One thing that is kind of annoying is that oftentimes Sunny will not come out of the cage unless she sees the Nikkigo out first. Same thing with stepping up out of the cage. If I approach her first she will back away or lung at the handheld perch. I use food rewards and if I don't use food I make a huge deal when she steps up and gives her lots and lots of praise and kisses. She is getting better.

Besides this, my general question is this: when training and working with two bird buddies, how long should each training session be. I only do a few minutes and end on a positive note. Is this okay? Should they be trained once a day, twice a day?

I have had them for so long but I still consider myself to be a novice in many ways when it comes to birds.

Also, are they too old to learn stuff? Nikki has quickly adapted to having only one wing so I imagine that age is not a factor.

 

[expressmailtome]

Bump.

 

[MnGuy]

I think always training Nikki first and using her to model behavior for Sunny is only exacerbating your problems. It's creating too much co-dependency between the birds and instead of Sunny learning how to do the behaviors on her own, she only learns how to do it IF AND ONLY IF Nikki does them first.

I've never trained two parrots at once, but I do have two dogs I do regular maintenance training with. I think you should be training the birds separately in a different room from each other until Sunny is confident and doing things on her own.

Good luck.

 

[A.K]

Hi,

I like keeping training lessons short, and ending with a reward, like yummy seeds. I’ve always found training birds alone is helpful, because they tend to get distracted by the other bird. Of course, I’ve only owned budgies before, and it may be different with conures and quakers. Take one bird into the room, do a short lesson, then take the other. It worked for me when it came to budgies, but it may not with conures and quackers.

 

[Bevolson]

This thread is exactly what I need.
'Training Two Birds'


The Who are they.
Their History.
Avarian Avenue help.
And The What am I doing? And The Why?
My problem.

I have two budgies who came to me about 3 months ago.
Reading this forum makes me laugh with the recognition of 'parrot behaviours' of all types of parrots evident in these little fellas of mine.
So smart and so cute and so able to communicate with me if I am listening/watching..


The Who Are They?

Green parakeet Bill 2years old and his shadow parakeet Blue about 1 year old


Their History:

Both birds are newly re-homed to me. They have a new owner and new town.

The oldest green parakeet Bill had lots of attention when he was a baby in his first year from my young grand daughter. (Bill would sit on her hand. )
Then my gg had an allergy problem. They moulted.
A solution for Green Bill the budgie with no contact. (Young Blue a baby was introduced, purchased with the role of parakeet companion.)

I thought this bird pairing arrangement was not working. I visited the home after a few weeks and I witnessed how very unwelcome young Blue was within green Bill's territory the cage. Green Bill pecked at him constantly. I do not know if Green Bill was allowed out so often after that. Two birds to keep an eye on, being too risky.

But obviously that resolved. The oldest green bird nowadays shows the utmost kindness and tolerance to the younger hyperactive Young Blue bird's sometimes horrid behaviour. See below

Avarian Avenue Help.

I had drawn already a diagram in my own Bird Notebook/diary when I posted it on the forum.
See 'The Welcome Forum' . New Member 2 budgies.
It illustrates the time I saw Young Blue dive bomb down at Green Bill.
Blue intentionaly swooped down, dive bombing on Green Bill who was bum up feeding seed from a bowl on the roof of one of the cages.
Young Blue had grasped a Green wing feather and he pulled hard on it flying up, lifting Bill's wing as he departed strongly upward.

There was second witnessed event.
I think a clear example of Young Blue 'owning all the food bowls' on the roof of the Big cage.
Young Blue always tries his best to keep Green Bill literally in the air, thus unable to relax at feeds.

(it reminds me of a dog we had who used to keep all the seagulls off the beach.)

The consequences:-
Young Blue gave Green Bill such a push out of the food bowl he was feeding from, that Bill tumbled upside down into the adjacent full Water dish.

(I managed to stay out of it because I was across the other side of the room.)

Through the clear plastic I watched Bill rolling about trying to climb out.
He had never bathed before.
Bill spent about an hour preening from the highest branch with some tentative visitations from Blue.



The What Am I Doing? And The Why?
Entertaining myself and providing continuity. The story of Grandma who left town with the budgies. A story for my young grand girls whom I had to leave behind in the North of NZ.
Hoping to teach my birds to love me so if they escape I can call them back.
Using these little feathery fellas as an attraction for my grandson's in the South of NZ to come to grandma's house.

My Problem
My clicker Training needs an overhaul.
Today Green Bill hopped off my hand and walked backward.
No No No Bill said
I was failing today until I watched some 'training' Forum here.

I asked Green Bill to help.
now Green Bill has showed me he is perfectly happy to 'Beak Click and Treat' on just a few millet seeds.
I had fallen down a rabbit hole of thinking the objective was to get him to sit on my hand to feed. To eat millet till he was tired of it.
Ugh ah.
Green Bill showed me there is not enough WIFM in THAT GAME having lost his fear of my hand days ago.

And Green Bill was cross with me for locking up his companion Young Blue. Green Bill would not play with me while Young Blue was crawling about in the Big Cage like a wee mouse trying to escape.
(I knew it would not work with these two birds in different rooms. so I did not try.)

Two is company three is a crowd. I am the new kid on the block. I am the obstacle in their lives.

Green Bill showed me how to progress.
He took his 'shadow', young Blue to the site of the sprig of mint on the opposite cage and then he flew back to me.

Me.
Me standing waiting like a fool with a chop stick and a clicker and a stick of millet.
Green Bill climbed to a branch ( to be away from Young Blue who would surely follow.)
Beak Click brief Reward
I wonder what will happen next.

I think I will read Beatrix Potter again. LOL.

Bev - open to learn from all of you.

 

[Bevolson]

I was feeling silly that my post was too long winded.
and I posted on an old Forum was me being a bit dumb.

But but but
Thank you Avarian Avenue and The Training Court.
because....
I read ' Learning Theory Basics' BraveheartDogs by Vicki 11/21/09

And I have learned a lot.
Operant Conditioning.
Positive Reinforcement makes behaviour go up (We all know this one don't we) and about Negative Punishment makes behaviour go down.
Or might do.

It is such a good read.
There will be variables.
Read BraveheartDogs by Vicki.
My words. Why one size never fits All.

Seriously important The ABC
Antecedent Behaviour and Consequence
and the (often unknown) reasons birds do stuff. See Classical Conditioning.
Emotional responses to certain things.

I do not feel so foolish now because of me reflecting on my birds ages and histories. Histories both with 'each other' and their known life experiences with my human family and me, is relevant.
Whoopee.
That is why every case /every bird needs different ways to help them.

I love it.

 

[Shezbug]

I was feeling silly that my post was too long winded.
and I posted on an old Forum was me being a bit dumb.

But but but
Thank you Avarian Avenue and The Training Court.
because....
I read ' Learning Theory Basics' BraveheartDogs by Vicki 11/21/09

And I have learned a lot.
Operant Conditioning.
Positive Reinforcement makes behaviour go up (We all know this one don't we) and about Negative Punishment makes behaviour go down.
Or might do.

It is such a good read.
There will be variables.
Read BraveheartDogs by Vicki.
My words. Why one size never fits All.

Seriously important The ABC
Antecedent Behaviour and Consequence
and the (often unknown) reasons birds do stuff. See Classical Conditioning.
Emotional responses to certain things.

I do not feel so foolish now because of me reflecting on my birds ages and histories. Histories both with 'each other' and their known life experiences with my human family and me, is relevant.
Whoopee.
That is why every case /every bird needs different ways to help them.

I love it.

It is always worth a quick sticky beak through all the sub forums, there are forums for breeding, behaviour, training, feeding, cages and toys and absolutely everything else to do with birds and their care.

We usually suggest that members search through them (especially the stickies or threads that are in green at the top of the lists) or use the search function (looking glass at the top right) before asking anything as so often most things have been discussed here at least a few times.

You will very likely find answers for most things you can think of to ask in the training court

In future for best results, it is best to make your own thread rather than add your questions onto an old thread or even another persons current thread, you will get more personalised help, advice, suggestions and support if you make your own thread asking the things you want to learn.