TO CLIP? -- Flightless bird. Controversy. Honest feedback. Advice. Practicality.

[erineliot]

So I'm loosely aware of the reputation on here concerning whether to clip or not clip your bird's wings. I am posting as a welcome invitation to opposing views.

First, I'd like to state a few things. Where I stand on the issue--in my personal home only--is "safety first." If my parrot flies away or into a ceiling fan, that's worse in my mind than the potential long-term health effects of being a flightless bird. However, health and safety go hand in hand, so I deeply want my parrot to benefit from the joys and health of flying. OF COURSE! Nevertheless, I've had her escape once, a bad escape. It was a freak accident and a genuine miracle I got her back. Plus the simple things, such as flying into a ceiling fan, a window, the cat, the burning stove, out the door as I'm walking outside... onto a cactus! I have many plants. Also, practical questions, what about the poops everywhere? Chewing up the house, walking on the floor?! I just can't wrap my mind around the safety or mechanics. Even growing up younger with my MANY pet birds, I can think of so many situations where flight (in a home, where flight wasn't designed) almost resulted in loss or death. I cannot afford to make a mistake with my baby. So in the meantime, I'm trying to encourage more free movement around the house with ladders, perches, and ropes which are restricted to supervised areas.

Are there any exercises that can be done with her to help her exercise? This is one of my main questions for today.

Also, in the past, before she escaped, I had just inherited her after twenty-something years. Her wings were clipped. It took almost two years for them to grow out. I then started leash training her outside. (Which, do any of you have a good, safe recommendation for a foot leash for outdoor safety?) Long story short, poor baby was a miserable flier... until the day she got away, of course. I had been working with her for about a year. She was always very frightened and hesitant to fly. When I first inherited her, she could barely balance whatsoever. I think she was probably so deprived in her first life of any physical exercise or variety that she's a bit physically inept still. She's shown GREAT progress though, just slowly.

So say you guys help me see the light of possibility here and I decide to grow her wings out again, I need to know she can be 100% safe. And if not, how can I keep her physically fit as a clipped parrot?

I'm so sadly torn here. I want everything for her.

 

[FeatheredM]

If a bird is clipped, it can also get hurt from crashing into walls.

 

[Mizzely]

A ship is always safest in the harbor, but sitting in a harbor is not what it was built for.

There is no such thing as 100% safety on either side of the issue.

Clipped birds can get stepped on, still escape (yes, I know this to be a fact), end up where they shouldn't, chew things they shouldn't, be eaten by a cat...

When my sons were learning to walk, they fell a lot. One fell down the stairs. They had many black eyes and bruises from learning to walk. To keep them safe, I did not tie their shoe laces together or strap them to a chair. I made the environment safer for them to explore.

 

[keirieski17]

Some of these things are seemingly very simple fixes to me: Don't have the ceiling fan on while she is out. Cover the windows or put window clings on them so she knows there is a barrier. Don't have the cat out in the same room at the same time the bird is out-- you should not do this even if your bird is clipped. If anything, it is less safe as your bird cannot fly away from the cat. Don't open the door while your bird is out. Don't have the stovetop on while the bird is out. None of these are unavoidable issues; you will simply have to make changes for your birds safety and happiness.

As for the poop-- birds poop. It is simply a fact of living with these delightful creatures. Clean it up when it happens and move on.

We all naturally want perfect safety and perfect freedom, but these are not in fact things that can always coexist. A little safety must be sacrificed so your bird has the freedom to fly. A little freedom-- for your cat, for your ability to do certain things while your bird is out-- must be sacrificed to keep your bird safe.

 

[Mizzely]

Oh yeah the poop thing. If your bird has "stations" to fly between - playstands, boings, etc - then they will naturally poop in those areas more. I rarely have poop outside of an approved area, and that's usually on me!

 

[Ripshod]

So I'm loosely aware of the reputation on here

Wait! What? We have a reputation?

Seriously though, right at the start of my adventures I vowed to never clip, and I never have. Any dangers in any room can be negated. You mentioned ceiling fans - it' s easy enough to put a cage around that fan and they are available if you search for them.
Windows can be blocked with a blind or a net curtain.
I'm not going to list everything. I did all my bird proofing when I first set this all up. The only time I even have to think about it now is when I make a change. It's easy once the basics are done.
As for the clipping issue itself, while I advocate against it I'll never flame or push anyone into not doing it. It's a free world and we all have the freedom of choice. I've had loads of birds through my care that came to me clipped and left the same way. But while they were with me I was constantly fearful of stepping on one, to the point that I had to choose between keeping them caged or not enjoying my own home.
None of my own flock are clipped and they never will be.

 

[tka]

I live with two flighted parrots. Leia is five, Kira is nine months. They have never been clipped and my wife and I have adapted our living space to accommodate them. First thing is lots of perches and playstands and other bird-safe areas: we have one metal playstand, a java tree, a tabletop stand and a window perch in our living room. All are loaded with toys and other fun stuff. We put either vinyl flooring offcuts or paper under these perches/stands to catch the poo. The paper can be thrown away. I hoover the dried poo off the vinyl and give it a scrub in the bath every so often.

The birds are taught to station and get treats if they are on a perch and engaging with the toys and activities we've set up for them. Birds on the floor or somewhere they shouldn't be are picked up but not given treats until they've been settled on an appropriate perch/playstand for a while. Generally, they seem pretty happy to hang out on the perches and stands we've got for them. Leia likes watching the world go by from the window perch and occasionally yelling at the outside birds. Kira really likes a balsa toy attached to the tree.

So far we've not had a major problem with them destroying other stuff. Leia chewed a bit of the picture rail in a previous flat but that's about it. We have the bedroom as a parrot-free zone so anything potentially dangerous is kept there. I've attached doors to our bookcases to keep the birds out. We block off the tops of the bookcases to prevent Leia from getting nesty up there. We basically think like parrots and try to anticipate where they'll go and what they'll get into, then try to forestall them.

We are very conscious of where the birds are at all times. If someone needs to open the front door, the birds are shut in the study or living room. There is always al least one closed door between them and the outside.

We teach them where the windows are by walking around with a bird on our hand and tapping the glass with them. We encourage them to touch the glass with their beaks to see that there's an invisible surface there. Never had a problem with a bird crashing into the window.

Ceiling fans and cats aren't an issue for us beacuse we don't have them. I have seen enclosed ceiling fans which may be an option for you, otherwise just don't have them on while the bird is out. Members of this forum who have both cats and birds are careful to keep them in separate rooms and ensuring their household is aware of the precautions that they must take. Just a sign on the door saying that the bird is out can help.

You might find these two blog posts useful:

Part Five: Cooperative Living with Flighted Parrots

Often, when I talk about living with flighted parrots to someone who has always clipped wings, they get a look on their face that could be interpreted as a combination of horror, perplexity, and co…

blogpamelaclarkonline.com

Part Six: Ensuring the Safety of Your Flighted Parrot

The biggest risk for flighted parrots, upon which all agree (whether pro-clipping or pro-flight), is that of permanent loss outdoors. It must be recognized, however, that this risk is equal for bot…

blogpamelaclarkonline.com

I personally believe that a clipped parrot cannot be as physically or mentally fit as a flighted parrot. Everything about a parrot's physiology is built for flight, from their lightweight bone structure to their ultra-efficient respiratory system. Flight is the best exercise they can do. No other exercise is as intense or places such demands on their bodies.

The other big issue is mental health. Parrots thrive on being offered choice and control over their environment. My birds are constantly making choices about where they want to be, which toy they want to play with, which room they want to be in. They happily follow me around the flat thrugh flight. If they're hungry or thirsty, they know to fly to the study and pop back into their cages for some food or a drink. They play hanging upside down on a toy, and trust their wings to catch them should they fall. I truly think that living with flighted parrots has enriched my own life.

 

[Tazlima]

Regarding the "foot leash" are you referring to a jess, such as is used in falconry?

If so, there isn't a safe version for parrots, because parrots lack the thick, strong bone and sinew present the legs and feet of birds of prey. Basically, a parrot's wings are so much stronger than their skinny little ankles that tethering them by the leg is a recipe for injuries.

For outdoor flight or non-enclosed travel, you'll want to train her to a body harness (the aviator harness is pretty unanimously considered the best bird harness brand on the market and they come with a training video on how to get your bird accustomed to wearing the harness).

For more passive travel, such as bringing her along on walks, you might consider a bird backpack (pac-o-bird or similar) or portable cage. There are a lot of neat options for that. I've seen people get very creative with cages mounted on a stroller frame or garden cart.

 

[Kassiani]

I have far less experience with birds than many members here. What I have come to accept is that safety is never guaranteed. Even a clipped bird can fly to a certain extent. If a clipped bird escapes, it could still go pretty far. Especially on a windy day. But perhaps not as fast and without optimal maneuverability. If a clipped bird escapes and encounters a predator, they may also be somewhat limited in their ability to escape predation.

I recall train my birds with regularity. I try to make sure that they are all in their cages if I open a door to the house. My personal opinion is that flying is excellent for the birds’ physical and mental health.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have had my budgies’ wings clipped once. It was when they were both ill and I needed to give them medication twice a day. They became scared, unsteady, and unsure of themselves and their surroundings. It really took their confidence away. I promised myself I would never do it again.

Best of luck to you with this decision!

 

[Lady Jane]

So I'm loosely aware of the reputation on here concerning whether to clip or not clip your bird's wings.

I was focused on your statement about AA reputation on cutting off flight feathers. It is the opinions of the members that draw you to this belief, not AA as a forum. I never cut any flight feather from a bird because it has the potential to greatly reduce confidence and health of a bird, no matter what reason you are sighting. It is my personal opinion that a bird home should be made bird safe, not the bird made safe by cutting off flight feathers.
A pair of budgies I used to had cut flight feathers the breeder did. It took 9 months for full regrowth. That is a long time in a budgies life considering they do not live very long. So they learned to fly in my living room, hitting the walls and ceilings at times. Not very safe.

 

[erineliot]

A ship is always safest in the harbor, but sitting in a harbor is not what it was built for.

There is no such thing as 100% safety on either side of the issue.

Clipped birds can get stepped on, still escape (yes, I know this to be a fact), end up where they shouldn't, chew things they shouldn't, be eaten by a cat...

When my sons were learning to walk, they fell a lot. One fell down the stairs. They had many black eyes and bruises from learning to walk. To keep them safe, I did not tie their shoe laces together or strap them to a chair. I made the environment safer for them to explore.

I get that, and I agree. But it solves nothing, unfortunately. Right now, none of those things are of risk to her. She has her routines, her boundaries. The cat knows his limits, too. But mix territories, I don't know. Same with people. My amazon is aggressive. I see the percentage of likelihood in risk skyrocket if I grow out her wings. And even if I did, that doesn't solve the other questions on how to train her to fly properly and safely? She's a mess! She spent nearly 25 years without flight and the only time she successfully lands, it's in a frightened state. All other times she SMACKS her beak onto the floor. When she could fly, she would fly, latch on, and attack other people. Not okay behavior and I'm still lost on how to fix THAT one. Asking these questions isn't just to hear opinions, either. Quite honestly, it's not a clear-cut answer, as much as we want it to be. My search is for advice on safe practices within the quest of getting her physically more fit and healthy amidst her circumstances. Anyone with first-hand experience in a similar situation would be wonderful. I know birds should fly. I'd love an idyllic world where she could! Heck, I wish I could call her to me and that she'd choose to be with me! But even if all it took was another year of growing out her wings, neither she nor I would be equipped to handle it properly with the knowledge I have now. I'm hoping there's something I haven't thought of. The last time I tried this, I 100% admit and attest that I certifiably put her life in critical danger. Her escape into the woods was just the last straw. Again, what finds me back here is her health and her joy.

 

[erineliot]

I was focused on your statement about AA reputation on cutting off flight feathers. It is the opinions of the members that draw you to this belief, not AA as a forum. I never cut any flight feather from a bird because it has the potential to greatly reduce confidence and health of a bird, no matter what reason you are sighting. It is my personal opinion that a bird home should be made bird safe, not the bird made safe by cutting off flight feathers.
A pair of budgies I used to had cut flight feathers the breeder did. It took 9 months for full regrowth. That is a long time in a budgies life considering they do not live very long. So they learned to fly in my living room, hitting the walls and ceilings at times. Not very safe.

That's not at ALL what I was replying. There's no nasty reputation circulating about some offputting reputation. I simply combed through archives and saw many a posts stating that member of AA strongly advise against it. Thing is, that I think is getting lost in translation, is that I AGREE! I just don't believe it's black and what safety-wise. What is black and white is that its HEALTHY and crucial to their health and livelihood to HAVE wings. That's why I'm reaching out to try to build a plan where that too is possible in my home, for my baby girl. In my second post I try to explain a bit further that I tried this once and nearly lost her/killed her. It's only responsible I try to seek help before making the same mistakes twice, yes?

And I'm sorry that is what you focused on. You must have missed the rest where I am genuinely reaching out to a community I admire for help for my favorite member of a species we all love so desperately. I believe if anyone can help, it's you all.

Tell me more about the budgies? How'd you handle that? Kind of sounds familiar! Haha.

 

[erineliot]

I have far less experience with birds than many members here. What I have come to accept is that safety is never guaranteed. Even a clipped bird can fly to a certain extent. If a clipped bird escapes, it could still go pretty far. Especially on a windy day. But perhaps not as fast and without optimal maneuverability. If a clipped bird escapes and encounters a predator, they may also be somewhat limited in their ability to escape predation.

I recall train my birds with regularity. I try to make sure that they are all in their cages if I open a door to the house. My personal opinion is that flying is excellent for the birds’ physical and mental health.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have had my budgies’ wings clipped once. It was when they were both ill and I needed to give them medication twice a day. They became scared, unsteady, and unsure of themselves and their surroundings. It really took their confidence away. I promised myself I would never do it again.

Best of luck to you with this decision!

I think the confidence thing is so true. It's emasculating.

 

[Mizzely]

Only you know your full situation; I didn't see anything in your first post suggesting your bird was attacking people. I lived with a quaker who would seek me out to attack me and I wish I HAD tried to clip his wings. Nothing I did helped with that. I did lock him up when company was over to protect them, otherwise the biggest thing was making him forage for most of his food.

My current bird is basically out all day every day. He was trapped in a cage for 19 years and doesn't fly much now because of it. My vet tries to get me to encourage him to fly but he only does it very sporadically.

My cat is upstairs when the bird is out. Luckily, she sleeps all day. When she comes down for the evening, Ripley's cage is locked.

My outer doors are always locked. If someone needs in, Ripley is out in his cage before I let him in. Windows screens are checked for holes or bent spots.

Getting them used to flying is easier in smaller rooms as they can't get up the speed to hurt themselves. You can also work on them developing muscle tone by putting two perches or similar near each other and slowly increase the distance so they have to hop over instead of just stepping over. Then increase again and hope they engage their wings.

For cooking, I put up sheer curtains in the doorways/archways so they couldn't fly in there. Bathrooms are always closed too.


As much as I want it to be, I understand it's not a black and white issue. While I think every effort should be made to let them be flighted, if the difference is between them being in a loving home or languishing in a rescue, then we have to consider that clipping is an option that allows us to co-exist.

 

[keirieski17]

She has her routines, her boundaries. The cat knows his limits, too. But mix territories, I don't know.

I want to emphasize there is no safe way to mix your cat and your bird. Birds are killed every day by cats who "knew their limits." There are members on this forum who can attest to this personally. It could potentially never be a problem, but I feel like it's a time bomb. It only takes a second of opportunity for the predator's natural instincts to kill the prey.

 

[Sparkles99]

Keeping birds away from animals that might naturally harm them is the way to go. Many of us keep multiple species, just separately (using actual walls & doors).

Clipping wings is immoral & an affront to nature. Pretending it's for the bird's sake is dishonest. It's for human convenience. No amount of potential reduction of physical injuries will make up for certain psychological injuries.

 

[Shannan]

I am not going to weigh in on the flight controversy however one of the questions you asked is how to keep a bird healthy who does not fly. My TAG has full wings but had never been a big flier despite many opportunities. Now that he is older, he is nearly blind and has arthritis so despite the wings for flight, he does not fly. That being said, I do encourage healthy movement by giving him plenty of foraging opportunities, toys that will engage him physically and a cage set up that is conducive to his abilities. I wish more than anything to see him fly again but he is happy to climb, walk, crawl etc. Although he does not fly, one of his favorite things to do is to hang upside down and flap his wings. (much to the chagrin of his vet, who worries about his grip and falling). He does use his full wings often for balance as his grip is not the greatest.

 

[Lady Jane]

It was two English budgies from same breeder in NJ. He is retired now. I asked him not to cut flight feathers. He said it was his "policy" to do so. Found out later he cut flights before fledging which is a no no. In hindsight i should have walked away. EB can be few and far between. So for the better part of a year they never flew but learned to hop out of the cage. I got them a tall ladder and they learned to climb from floor to cage door. I found it very sad to watch them maturing but never having flown.

 

[Sweet Louise]

Ceiling fans are terrifying, I just flat out don’t use them when Louise is out. I have storm doors so getting in and out is a two step process. I have heavy mesh screens that I regularly inspect and mostly use ac instead of open windows. Nothing is 100%, reasonable efforts go a long way. A flightless bird cannot escape, and that includes escaping danger. Louise always has flight but on 2 occasions she had a light clip that slowed her down and made assent more challenging- she could still fly and corner like a champ. I didn’t want to but it seemed the only way to avoid a behavior problem. She likes to fly and it is a thing of beauty to watch. Everyone makes the best choices they can, this is just how I handle it.

 

[Sparkles!]

As a Zon rehabber of many, many years and countless “aggressive” birds, May I weigh in?

Just because a bird once had poor behavior (as perceived by humans) does not mean that bird will always behave as such.

I would argue that of all birds, Amazonia are a species that absolutely should not be clipped.

You say that your bird was severely aggressive when in possession of useful wings . You make a case that because of that severe aggression, you will not allow her wings again because of *your* fear and *your* perceived notion that risk of an incident would heighten. *You* are not comfortable with her being flighted. *You* are worried about *your* skills and how *you* will handle things. *You* feel more comfortable with her clipped.

You mention that a bird is better off clipped in a home than flighted but languishing in a rescue. Who says they’re languishing? To clip or not to clip is not about co-existing. It’s not about learning. It’s justifying administering a handicap.

Even when performed by and at the prescription of a certified avian vet, clipping is acknowledged as a treatment that will cause detrimental side effects just as any scheduled class medication.

To truly learn to coexist is not bringing a greater creature down to our plane. It’s respecting and accepting their greater abilities and adapting to them, not taking them away for ease of convenience or proffered “safety”.