The strange case of my "adult" 6 month old 'tiel

[TielTA]

I've had him for 3 months now and his behavior doesn't seem to match with any internet guide I can find on taming these birds.

I've also been locked down since the end of January because of Cornavirus. This has given me, probably too many hours, to work with his taming.

Through daily work I've got him to the point of eating millet or sunflower seeds from my hand very sporadically. Sometimes he just gets in a mood of not wanting to move from his perch for anything. He is still quite scared of hands when they are around his cage. I used to sit by the cage a lot as advised to by all the guides. But he'd freak a lot even when he's at the point of eating from my hand, he doesn't like me sitting there. This flies in the face of all the guides that say "Your tiel will eventually come and investigate you".

His cage door is left open every day, but he never wants to come out. The guides say they should come out to explore within a few hours, it's been months and he's still not interested in life outside the cage.

He sings a lot and bobs his head. Here's another time the guides seem to not apply to this bird. They all say "They want attention! Go give the bird attention". But when I go over there he couldn't care less about my existance.

I saw a guide by parrot wizard that you should just get your bird out the cage, and then show them how great out the cage time is. With force if required. Called "force and reconcile". I tried this for a few days but he just sat bolt upright on a training perch without moving and wouldn't take treats and didn't seem all that happy.

After that didn't work, I took a back seat on this bird. I just gave him food and water and ignored him for about a month. Thinking maybe I am just bothering him too much because I've been stuck in the house for so long. Now he's more calm and doesn't mind my presence, but still not any closer to being tame.

The weird thing is sometimes he'll get spooked and fly out of the cage, especially during lightning storms. When he's in this scared state and on the floor I'll walk up and put my hand down and he'll walk towards my hand and step onto it. Then I put him back in the cage. He refuses to step up any other time unless he's been in this state of fear. His fear of my hand during this time seems to have gone and he'll remain on it nicely until I get back to the cage. Then he seems to remember he dislikes me and jumps back in as fast as he can.

Do I just have an odd cockatiel? Should I continue to partially ignore him and see if he calms down further? I've pretty much tried every kind of taming method you can find online.

On the other end of the spectrum, I hand tamed my parent raised budgie in 2 weeks. Borth birds behave very differently in their taming process. The budgie followed a very linear path to become tame, each day making more and more progress to the point he just became a tame bird. The 'tiel seems to be more or less tame depending on what day of the week it is. Sometimes he will be munching millet right out my hand. 10 minutes later he could be acting as if he's never seen me before.

 

[Ripshod]

He's still a juvenile and he's still scared. You can appreciate the advice you took on "force and reconcile" does not work and just reinforces fear of hands. But the fact that he'll come to your hand for help when he's on the floor and scared shows hands are still the lesser of 2 evils.
Can you fix a perch under his cage door? Or a short one to the door itself? That would make a good step to him coming out of the cage and give him somewhere 'safe' to land if he does fly. You could fix a few toys to the inside of his cage door and play with them when his door is open while just chatting or whistling to him.
He will come round from this, we just have to pique his interest.
Can you share a pic of his cage setup? Maybe we could give a few pointers.

 

[Khizz]

I hope none of this comes off as rude! To me it sounds like you have tried a lot of different things, but maybe the lack of success is that you try something new with the idea that it will work within a few days/weeks, just like your lovely little budgie? When it doesn't work maybe you move on too quickly? It's only been 3 months and it sounds like you've tried a lot of techniques and not let the bird get used to it. After 3 months my birds were still scooting away from me when I came in.

Incidentally, with the "force and reconcile", it sounds a bit suspect to me. Does it involve grabbing the bird? Because that may have set you back quite a bit.

I have 2 adult tiels, who are not tame. I've had them for a year and while not tame, they are curious and clearly appreciate my presence! Here is my thread about them.

I actually think many taming websites, and indeed individual bird owners, set peoples' expectations too high when it comes to taming time. There isn't a fixed time frame, and there are a LOT of people on here who don't have tame birds. I've seen some people say it took years for their birds to come around. Hand-raised babies are also not necessarily a fast-track to tame birds, and that also gives people the idea that their bird will be tame within a few weeks.

Regarding coming out, maybe post your cage set up? It took mine ages, till all I did was make it easier for them to come out using a perch on the door connected to an inside perch, hung some millet and they literally came out after a few hours Birds actually prefer to tentatively walk somewhere new rather than fly. Flying commits them to landing on the new "thing" and being really close all at once. Walking somewhere is less scary, they can take their time.

 

[TielTA]

Yes, that "force and reconcile" technique didn't really seem to work. And It kinda flew in the face of everything I knew about birds. It seemed it would not gain any trust. And it's hard to "reconcile" when they're too scared to take treats or gain any positives from the experience. So I stopped it after 2 days because it really seemed kinda mean. And it did involve getting him out with a towel.

I also saw recommendations to take the bird to an unfamiliar room so "it's mind is not focused on getting back to it's cage". And practicing ladder drills with it. (getting it to constantly step up on alternating fingers like a ladder). I tried this once, and again it just seemed mean. The bird is scared and wont take treats and isn't gaining any positive reinforcement.

Later research seemed to point to these two techniques being called "flooding" and being an old school and completely outdated method of parrot taming that isn't advised anymore.

That's when I decided to kinda step back and see what would happen if I just tried to do nothing and leave him alone.

One thing I notice about pretty much all these guides on Youtube etc. They all use already tame birds! So ofc the bird happily goes along with whatever the person is doing.

 

[Khizz]

Yes, that "force and reconcile" technique didn't really seem to work. And It kinda flew in the face of everything I knew about birds. It seemed it would not gain any trust. And it's hard to "reconcile" when they're too scared to take treats or gain any positives from the experience. So I stopped it after 2 days because it really seemed kinda mean. And it did involve getting him out with a towel.

I also saw recommendations to take the bird to an unfamiliar room so "it's mind is not focused on getting back to it's cage". And practicing ladder drills with it. (getting it to constantly step up on alternating fingers like a ladder). I tried this once, and again it just seemed mean. The bird is scared and wont take treats and isn't gaining any positive reinforcement.

Later research seemed to point to these two techniques being called "flooding" and being an old school and completely outdated method of parrot taming that isn't advised anymore.

That's when I decided to kinda step back and see what would happen if I just tried to do nothing and leave him alone.

I'm trying a similar thing. I interact with them a lot. I talk, I stand really close to their cage with them right in front of me and occasionally I feed Mabel a small millet berry from my fingers. I sing to them, and make new enrichment toys for them. I actually am around them most of the day. So I actually do a lot with them, I just have taken a step back from systematic training as I found it was stressing us all out.

Now Mabel has become quite fond of chilling on my desk-side perch:

 

[TielTA]

Leaving him alone and stopping the systematic training and looking for progress seems to have calmed him down. He's not any closer to being hand tame. But he now usually doesn't mind my presence. I can open the cage door without him backing up, and drop food in his bowl while he eats and he wont react.

I'm not sure if there's some logic to this "leaving them alone" as an actual method for taming. Towards the tail-end of those 2 weeks with my budgie. I went away for 3 days and my room mate only went in the room to replenish food and water. This was the first time the bird hadn't seen me for an extended period. Before I went away he was cautiously stepping up when bribed with millet. After I got back he was stepping up without a treat and coming out the cage to see me.

Another rant about these guides:
They constantly give conflicting information. "Put your hand in the cage until they're used to it". "Don't ever put your hand in their cage it's their territory". "Get them to step up in the cage first before you let them out". "Birds wont be complient in their own territory so take them out and teach them to step up in an unfarmiliar room".

Then you go to Youtube. "How to get your parrot to step up". *bird is already on a training perch hapily munching seeds with zero explaination of how it got there*.

 

[finchly]

That’s the problem with following self-proclaimed experts. Now throw out all that advice and follow your instincts. Focus on loving your bird, enjoying his presence and how you can both best enjoy your time together.

All my cages have a perch, platform, or ladder on the outside. I also have landing stations and a foraging spot beside a little fountain. They can come and go at will. Our tiels, we gave them away and the guy brought them back months later. They had to be re-tamed but they’re different now. Finchly's Journal (Getting 2 Cockatiels to stop screaming)

We also have an older tiel that doesn’t want to be touched but he will play a whistle game so that’s how we interact with him.
I wrote more and it’s gone... sorry!

 

[Lady Jane]

Now throw out all that advice and follow your instincts. Focus on loving your bird, enjoying his presence and how you can both best enjoy your time together.

Best advice you can get, right here.

 

[msplantladi]

Your bird is just a baby and excuse me for being so blunt but you have put him through ALOT already. At this point, he doesn't know what to expect from you but I am willing to bet his first reaction is " Oh No" & starts looks for ways to escape you. I am a firm believer if you force him to do anything you aren't going to like the results & he will just end up scared. Personally I would add some sort of perch to the inside of the door of his cage and just let him wander out on his own, he will because birds are curious by nature. Especially if you remove his food dish at night so he is hungry in the morning and more willing to take a treat from you. That way he starts to realize you aren't the bad guy. But I would just let him come out and hang out for a few days before approaching that method. You want him comfortable in his surroundings. Just let him relax hanging out on the open cage door perch. He won't starve by removing his food at night, I promise but in the morning he now needs something from you so you can start giving him treats when he comes out to sit on the cage door perch. You want to reinforce good behavior. Every time one of my Macaws screams they get no attention because I don't want to enforce that behavior so throughout the day they get a pistachio when they are just hanging out being good. I would love to see his cage set up & his diet. Do you cover him at night? In a nutshell -slow down you are expecting to much to soon & now he is confused. The good thing is he is young & trainable if you just take your time. Best of luck and feel free to come back & ask questions, there is always someone here willing to help

 

[finchly]

I think the main lesson with bird owners is that we have these pre-conceived notions of how they're going to "be" with their birds. Whether you've seen it on Youtube, or watched it with another person interacting with their bird... I don't know. But our ideals and reality are far apart. Birds aren't dogs. They aren't domesticated and they don't follow orders well.

We have to take what we can get. Their personalities are strong, so they will have a lot of input into the relationship and how we are together. None of mine are sweet, cuddly, do what I want/when I want. Instead I get bitten (not often, and it's more of a pinch), I spend 30 minutes tryiing to get somebody into their cage, I settle for one sitting on my head when I wish I could pet him. I have one I can pet only every other day. I have one that squeals if I raise a hand toward her. I warn people "don't touch -- he bites." Etc etc.

THIS is what we signed up for.

 

[TielTA]

Here is the cage setup for my birds. Do you think it's too small for him? Thing is if he wanted to come out the cage, he could be out all day. My budgie is only in the cage in the morning because I leave the balcony door open to exchange the air. Later in the day he's out all day. There's a double height cage of this design I am considering getting. It would essentially be the size of these two cages stacked on top of each other.

The cockatiel has a perch outside the door which he occasionally will perch on. But that's as far as he comes out.

 

[TielTA]

He's decided to come out and perch

 

[Fuzzy]

Goodness the "guides" are offering horrendous advice. A lot of it based on flooding/learned helplessness which is certainly not the way to gain trust. No, you don't have an odd cockatiel. He is just proving that the advice you have been given doesn't work!

Take your cues from him. Carefully watch his body language (without a predator's stare). To gain his trust you want to maintain his relaxed body language as much as possible. If you work to keep it relaxed, then your presence will be paired with that relaxed feeling (ie. your presence becomes something good). If he's terrified of your approach, it is too early to sit by him... that's flooding. If he is really scared he won't want to come out of his cage - my rescue Amazon Ollie wouldn't come out of his cage for 1.5 years despite the door being open almost permanently. That's great that you leave the door open for your tiel to come out if he wants to.... and indeed he did! That way he has control... having control of one's life is a hugely important reinforcer - so important it is called a primary reinforcer. It is also reinforcing for him to sit there, or else he wouldn't do it.

I can open the cage door without him backing up, and drop food in his bowl while he eats and he wont react.

What great progress! Trust your instincts - you are doing well.

When he is comfortable with you around him, then you can work on finding a reinforcer he will work for. Food is a good one for an untame bird as it is a an unlearned reinforcer - all birds have to eat. Would he eat a piece of millet spray if you held it for him? Millet spray is good as he doesn't have to get too close to your hands. Once you find a reinforcer he will work for, you can teach him anything!

I do think the cage you have for him is too small, although beautifully set out inside. A flat top is great too as it offers another place for the bird to hang out on. You can see that Khizz's cage has more opportunities to play on the outside of it. Ask yourself where he can go/what he can do if he comes out... especially if he is scared of humans right now.

 

[TielTA]

Actually he will take treats from my hand, but only in a certain way when my hand approaches and moves in a specific way and only when he's on that outside perch. That's why I though he's a bit odd.

It's not like my budgie where one day I suddenly "unlocked" being able to give him treats and now he will take any food from me in any context.

 

[Fuzzy]

All birds are individuals. With your budgie, taking of treats was quickly generalized to anywhere/any way. With your tiel, it is obviously going to take longer. Forcing him to do things in the past will also result in a temporary set back in trust. Just work to keep his body language relaxed at all times. If he will only take a treat in a certain way, keep using that way because you are both succeeding. Gradually you will find he begins to take the treat from you in other places as he begins to trust you more.

Just a note about a small cage - it is harder for a fearful bird to physically get away from you so it is important that you really work on keeping his body language relaxed on your approach. Keep hands low and movements calm and smooth. If he is showing uncomfortable body language at your approach, don't approach him at that time. Try again later. It might be an idea to talk to him to tell him what you are doing... this is also for your benefit to remind you to think about your movements and to go slow. You have all the time in the world to gain his trust.

 

[TielTA]

So here's an example of a behaviour of his I feel is odd. This morning he was sitting on the perch on the edge of the cage and he got spooked and flew to the floor. This has happened a few times. I'll go pick him up and when he gets in range of his cage he'll fly back inside. But this time he flew to the top of the cage.

He's been sitting up there without moving for almost 7 hours now. He wont take any food offered to him and doesn't move. He has no reaction to my hand until I touch him and then he just takes one step back. I thought birds could either be scared of your hand or like your hand. This seems to be apathetic indiference to my hand

When I purchased him from the market I chose one that didn't back away from me, and he's always had this apathetic low-energy about him. Is it possible for cockatiels to be Nihilistic?

 

[Khizz]

So here's an example of a behaviour of his I feel is odd. This morning he was sitting on the perch on the edge of the cage and he got spooked and flew to the floor. This has happened a few times. I'll go pick him up and when he gets in range of his cage he'll fly back inside. But this time he flew to the top of the cage.

He's been sitting up there without moving for almost 7 hours now. He wont take any food offered to him and doesn't move. He has no reaction to my hand until I touch him and then he just takes one step back. I thought birds could either be scared of your hand or like your hand. This seems to be apathetic indiference to my hand

When I purchased him from the market I chose one that didn't back away from me, and he's always had this apathetic low-energy about him. Is it possible for cockatiels to be Nihilistic?

If he's low-energy, not moving, maybe even fluffed up, could it be possible that he's sick?

 

[TielTA]

Nah he's always been like this. He's not sleepy, he's always alert when he's not moving he just kinda stays there.. watching everything. He had a vet visit a few months back and they didn't find anything wrong.

 

[TielTA]

He got spooked again, this time crashing onto the sofa. I picked him up and he's sitting on my lap calmly but kinda scared. Is it flooding to not take him to the cage and keep him on my lap? I'm not restraining him but he is obviously uncofortable and would prefer being back in the cage. Usually he will crash into a wall and i'll return him to his cage. But this is the first time hes flown to the sofa when spooked

 

[Ripshod]

The first thing to address is whatever is spooking him. Find it, eliminate it. There's enough energy in a spooked bird to cause serious injury and possibly kill it. Until you stop this happening he's in danger.