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Pictures Taming Mango

Brandon's-Fids

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I got Mango November 8th so he is with me almost 3 months.He is afraid of my hands and the only progress we have made is for him to step up on my arm he will literally run to my arm when I hold it out.He will not take treats from me thats another thing im working on.How can I get him used to my hands and take treats? I have also stopped using the Flight suit until he is tame.I have been taming and training birds nearly 3 years now as well as other peoples birds but cant seem to make anymore progress with Mango.
 

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Each time that you walk past his cage, drop his favorite treat in his food bowl. He will learn that good things come from being around you. Also, sitting next to his cage and calmly speaking to him can help him realize that you do not mean any harm.

Matt
 

Brandon's-Fids

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Each time that you walk past his cage, drop his favorite treat in his food bowl. He will learn that good things come from being around you. Also, sitting next to his cage and calmly speaking to him can help him realize that you do not mean any harm.

Matt
I already do that stuff.He comes out of the cage too he is only in it when he goes to eat and bed time or if he chooses to go in.He is mostly on top of the Cockatiels cage.
 

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Have you tried target training?

Matt
 

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Well it's good you stopped with the flight suit. If he is not hand-tame at all I can imagine that trying to wrestle him into it only made him more wary of hands in general.

I would start with a bunch of hands-off training. Like Matt mentioned, teaching a bird to "target" a stick with positive reinforcement training (and a clicker) is an easy way to bond with a hand-shy bird. It not only helps them get used to your hands moving around them, but it also boosts their confidence and acclimates them to your presence in general. If your bird will not take treats from your hand, try offering it in a long-handled spoon, from a stalk (like millet/oats), or just dropping it into a designated treat cup next to where your bird is sitting.

Half a year ago I needed to tame a 2+ year old budgie that hand never been handled (except to be grabbed by it's old owners and the vet). I used clicker training from week one and first taught "target", then ring-the-bell, then spin around... all before I was able to convince him to step-up onto my hand without luring him. Something similar may work for you.

Overall, prepare yourself to as far back towards square one as possible here. Soon your patience should be rewarded.
 

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Well it's good you stopped with the flight suit. If he is not hand-tame at all I can imagine that trying to wrestle him into it only made him more wary of hands in general.

I would start with a bunch of hands-off training. Like Matt mentioned, teaching a bird to "target" a stick with positive reinforcement training (and a clicker) is an easy way to bond with a hand-shy bird. It not only helps them get used to your hands moving around them, but it also boosts their confidence and acclimates them to your presence in general. If your bird will not take treats from your hand, try offering it in a long-handled spoon, from a stalk (like millet/oats), or just dropping it into a designated treat cup next to where your bird is sitting.

Half a year ago I needed to tame a 2+ year old budgie that hand never been handled (except to be grabbed by it's old owners and the vet). I used clicker training from week one and first taught "target", then ring-the-bell, then spin around... all before I was able to convince him to step-up onto my hand without luring him. Something similar may work for you.

Overall, prepare yourself to as far back towards square one as possible here. Soon your patience should be rewarded.
I never wrestled him to wear it I used a towel and he would let me put it on using a towel.He wont take millet from me and wouldnt eat it if I left it beside him.If I came near him with anything he would be gone.
 

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Trust me, just putting the flight suit on him (not to mention the toweling) would be enough to make any bird terrified of you/your hands. Think of it this way: birds are prey animals. Untamed prey animals generally do not like situations that cause them to feel trapped, restrained, or have their movements constricted (i.e. with a contraption that is strapped to their bodies) by creatures that are much larger, and thus much scarier, than them. Personally I think these experiences may have traumatized him, and if that is the case you really do need to muster up all of your patience and start over from square one. You no longer have just an untamed bird on your hands, you have an untamed as well as phobic one.

Start off by working with him in his cage so he can't just fly away when you come close. Obviously you can already tell that this will get you nowhere, and only continues to reinforce his fears ("oh no, now the monster is chasing me!"). And try to figure out what could be used as a reinforcer for him, until you are finally able to give him treats. For example, in the book "Getting Started: Clicker Training for Birds" the author talks about how she worked to tame a wild caught cockatoo named Rosie. Unfortunately, Rosie was so terrified of people that if you came within 6 feet of her she would begin to frantically flap and throw herself against the bars of her cage. Because the author knew that she would never be able to approach Rosie to give her a treat, she instead decided to use what Rosie wanted most - for her to go away - as the reward for being calm and relaxed. Acting as calm and "unpredatory" (i.e. not making direct eye contact, etc) as possible she would stand at the point just before Rosie would start to freak out, pause for a few seconds, then click and leave. After a minute or so she would return to the same spot. As soon as she saw Rosie begin to relax, click again and leave. Over the days she slowly closed the distance, inch by inch, to Rosie's cage as the bird began to let down its guard. Over time she began shortening the time spent out of the room and instead would just click and turn her back, and walk a few steps away. Finally she was able to get close enough to Rosie to drop a treat in her cup. After that it was easier for her to use successive approximations to get Rosie to approach her on her own. This method is called systematic desensitization.

I'm not trying to say these are the exact steps that will work with you and your bird. I'm just trying to show you how you can use some creativity and perseverance to get to the point where you can use more "conventional" rewards. Hope this helps.
 

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Well he will be towelled again tomorrow he is getting his sharp razor claws clipped tomorrow at the pet shop.He steps up on my arm and I can take him out of the cage with my arm.He isn't traumitized but I agree he may have been a little stressed and im trying to doing everything with him positively and I keep my distance.This is what I do each day with him, I take him out he steps on my hand and then he flies over to the Cockatiels cage.If we are in a different room he will sit close to me but as soon as hands come near him hes gone.Using a clicker would be no help because he cant know the clicker means getting a treat without getting treats.Would practicing step up with my arm get him used to my hands?
 

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Unfortunately, you are the only one that can figure out what can be used as a sufficient "reward" during training as you are the one directly interacting with him. I can't really say whether just practicing step-up onto your arm will work because I've heard of many people with birds that learned to step up on the back of a hand or arm initially and then never broke the habit. Besides, like you already mentioned, because he won't take treats from you it will be very difficult to reward him for moving closer to your hand while he is on your arm.

All I can do is remind you that a clicker is simply a bridge between a behavior and a reinforcer and that reinforcer does not necessarily have to be physical treats. In my example above the reinforcer was the women leaving the room. It could be verbal praise, or even time spent out of the cage. Something you could try is using an abridged version of the above technique to systematically desensitize Mango to your hands. Maybe start by holding a treat and reaching your hand towards him while he is in his cage, then figuring out the distance at which he tries to run away. Let's pretend this is 2 ft. Now leave the room, then come back after a minute and approach his cage and reach inside in as non-threatening a way as possible (i.e. don't look directly at him, use relaxed body language, and move very slowly) until you reach a spot just before the 2 ft mark. He might be tense, but wait a few seconds until you see him relax a bit. Click and leave the room. Repeat this process as you slowly decrease the distance between your hand and him OR until he reaches out to take the treat. Just make sure to not push him too far too fast as this will only set you back.

Finally, just keep up the positive interactions and try to avoid negative ones as much as possible. I know you are getting him groomed tomorrow but after that try to avoid the towel, and don't even consider using the flight suit again (or taking him out on errands) until you can be 100% sure he is comfortable and enjoys it. Good Luck.
 

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Unfortunately, you are the only one that can figure out what can be used as a sufficient "reward" during training as you are the one directly interacting with him. I can't really say whether just practicing step-up onto your arm will work because I've heard of many people with birds that learned to step up on the back of a hand or arm initially and then never broke the habit. Besides, like you already mentioned, because he won't take treats from you it will be very difficult to reward him for moving closer to your hand while he is on your arm.

All I can do is remind you that a clicker is simply a bridge between a behavior and a reinforcer and that reinforcer does not necessarily have to be physical treats. In my example above the reinforcer was the women leaving the room. It could be verbal praise, or even time spent out of the cage. Something you could try is using an abridged version of the above technique to systematically desensitize Mango to your hands. Maybe start by holding a treat and reaching your hand towards him while he is in his cage, then figuring out the distance at which he tries to run away. Let's pretend this is 2 ft. Now leave the room, then come back after a minute and approach his cage and reach inside in as non-threatening a way as possible (i.e. don't look directly at him, use relaxed body language, and move very slowly) until you reach a spot just before the 2 ft mark. He might be tense, but wait a few seconds until you see him relax a bit. Click and leave the room. Repeat this process as you slowly decrease the distance between your hand and him OR until he reaches out to take the treat. Just make sure to not push him too far too fast as this will only set you back.

Finally, just keep up the positive interactions and try to avoid negative ones as much as possible. I know you are getting him groomed tomorrow but after that try to avoid the towel, and don't even consider using the flight suit again (or taking him out on errands) until you can be 100% sure he is comfortable and enjoys it. Good Luck.
Hmm definitely need to try that I think that might actually work.Will this work even if the Clicker has no meaning to him or is he learning click means I leave? I only use the Flight suit for bringing him out which I wont be doing anymore until he is tame.And I never use a towel with him only when using the Flightsuit but when he is tame I can just put the flight suit on with my hands.Thanks I have to try this method.Should I do this a few times for about 5-10 minutes or once a day? I will say Good boy Mango to praise him.
 

Calpurnia

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IF (now this is a big "if") the only thing he really wants when he sees your hands coming is for them to go away, then clicking once he's calm and moving your hands away should be enough of a reward. So yes, in this case he learns the click = something good, which is your hands leaving.

I think short, frequent training sessions will help move things along more quickly.
 

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IF (now this is a big "if") the only thing he really wants when he sees your hands coming is for them to go away, then clicking once he's calm and moving your hands away should be enough of a reward. So yes, in this case he learns the click = something good, which is your hands leaving.

I think short, frequent training sessions will help move things along more quickly.
Ok ill definitely try that before and after he gets hid nails clipped.I have cuts and scratches all over my arm and when he steps up it only makes them itch again.
 
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