Talk me down..

[Elysian]

It might be helpful for you to write down all the pros and cons of each choice. I find that really helps me to organize my thoughts, I too can be a little all over the place with my ideas. It’s nice to write it out because you can look back at what you wrote when your emotions start to kick in. It’s also nice to see the pros and cons side by side. i know you said there are traits to all the species that you really like but not one species has all the traits you want in one. I might take some time to really think about what trait is the most important to you long term. Good luck!

I'm just going to write this out here because I'm stuck away from home..

What do I want in a bird?
Or maybe I should start with what about the budgies I like what they sort of lack..

I love watching them learn things. I love watching them play. I love it when Citrine gets pissed and tells me off because I love their distinct and powerful little personalities. I love love love the scarce little moments I get that prove they trust me.
I love watching them just be happy and healthy and confident in my house, clearly knowing it's just as much theirs.

I wish they were less skittish. They have been socialized enough to be cool with alot of change and super cool with strangers, but sometimes I feel like I have to prove myself for their trust over and over.
I wish they were more into me. They come over to my computer if they want snacks, but they dont sit on my shoulder or let me scratch them or sit near me anywhere else in the house.
I wish they were more into puzzles. I try to teach them to forage but they barely even nibble things, let alone lift them or turn them or move them.
I wish they were into music. They don't bob or sing or dance with me.

What attracts me to each of the bigger birds I like?

Pionus .. they are generalized as quiet and gentle, but that depends on the bird. I thought this might be a bird that could co exist with the budgies well just by not even caring about each other much. They are generalized as socialable/might be family birds - honestly we dont see people much, but I would like to show off my hird when I can. They might be capable of talking. They are not really pluckers. They are generally good eaters. They make adorable sounds.
Cons.. they might be too mellow? Too slow to warm up?

Blue Crown.. this bird sounds goofy and fun and sociable. Also smart. I know conures are more "cuddly" many times. They are adorable.
Cons.. they are actually smaller than I want.

Timneh.. they can probably talk, they are seriously intelligent. They can solve puzzles and use logic and reason in amazing ways.
They like to walk around as much as fly, so they would hang out more on my level.
Cons, they can be phobic and nervous, they can do the bait and switch and bite you without obvious warning. They can be intensely one person birds. The powder.

Amazon.. they can often talk. They seem to have almost as much logic and reason as a grey. They like to sing!! They are fun and goofy. They are beautiful. They have clear easy body language. They are healthy, hardy, not pluckers.
Cons.. the most common ones are known for their temper and aggression that starts in puberty. The ones in rescue are mostly not tame.

Small 'too.. they are affectionate. They are funny. They might talk. They like to dance!! They want to be near you, but not as clingy as a big 'too. You can clearly see their wheels turning when they walk around and select toys. They have logic and reason, they can like puzzles. They are might bond to one person but they are more sociable than the bigger 'tops. They love scritches.
Cons.. the powder.. the fear of plucking.. the possibility of screaming, though this is more with bigger 'toos. You cant read their eyes. But you can read their feathers still..

I've been over all this alot though, and I still cant say for sure.
An amazon that never wanted to be touched would make me a bit sad, but I would love watching them play. A grey that was phobic would make me worry, but it would be phenomenal to watch them work out toys and learn like a toddler. A 'too that didnt like people would be unfortunate, but I would love communing with them on my own..

 

[faislaq]

Buzzard was the wrong bird. We had several species in mind, all small to medium sized. A woman with a macaw emailed me and I deleted it immediately! Heck no! But I decided to talk it over with hubby & we talked with her that evening. She was desperate to rehome him to the first person who would take him. With no rehoming fee that worried us that he might end up with a flipper. So hubby and I agreed to take him, intending to find someone here who would take him.

We met him the next day & he was so charming. He started to grow on us immediately. He is such a sweetheart and we know we are very lucky to have him. He may not have been what we were looking for, but was exactly the right bird after all.

I agree with meeting any bird first. Species traits can be helpful overall, but it's the individual that matters. There is usually more than one right answer.

 

[flyzipper]

... my family (which is me, my bf, and two little bratty budgie boys).
...my boyfriend really wants a talker.
...I haven't gone back to my office yet, still working from home.
... on the phones.
... I know Amazons can get loud in the morning and evening. Does that start in babyhood?

Talking you down...

... make sure you consider the bird's future if you break up with your bf (what happens if you have to move somewhere that doesn't allow pets, can you still manage the bird's expenses if your household is reduced to one income, etc).
... managing birds of vastly different sizes takes additional work and care.
... no guarantees you'll get a talker.
... would you still want a new bird if you weren't currently working from home? what will the bird's life be like when you transition back to the office? Be prepared to carefully manage that change of routine for your flock when you're not around as much.
... if you're on the phone a lot, do you have the space to isolate yourself from the birds?
... asking the question, whether Amazons are loud, means that it would be a problem if the new bird turned out to be.

If you've read enough re-homing ads/posts, you'll recognize that my comments are based on common reasons people end up re-homing their birds.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[faislaq]

I know the powder could be a thing with the budgies though.

I thought powder was only an issue for new world birds? Budgies are Australian. They may be small so it may be negligible, but aren't they dusty, too?

I'm just going to write this out here because I'm stuck away from home..

What do I want in a bird?
Or maybe I should start with what about the budgies I like what they sort of lack..

I love watching them learn things. I love watching them play. I love it when Citrine gets pissed and tells me off because I love their distinct and powerful little personalities. I love love love the scarce little moments I get that prove they trust me.
I love watching them just be happy and healthy and confident in my house, clearly knowing it's just as much theirs.

I wish they were less skittish. They have been socialized enough to be cool with alot of change and super cool with strangers, but sometimes I feel like I have to prove myself for their trust over and over.
I wish they were more into me. They come over to my computer if they want snacks, but they dont sit on my shoulder or let me scratch them or sit near me anywhere else in the house.
I wish they were more into puzzles. I try to teach them to forage but they barely even nibble things, let alone lift them or turn them or move them.
I wish they were into music. They don't bob or sing or dance with me.

This is Luv Bug. Well, Puffin is our dancer, but the rest is Bug. Our goffins girls may be small on the outside, but their personalities are huge! You'll forget smaller 'toos are not big birds (or be glad of it at least!) Luv Bug is an evil genius & if she were any bigger I'd be convinced she might try to take over the world.

And corellas are known for their mad puzzle solving skills!

Small 'too.. they are affectionate. They are funny. They might talk. They like to dance!! They want to be near you, but not as clingy as a big 'too. You can clearly see their wheels turning when they walk around and select toys. They have logic and reason, they can like puzzles. They are might bond to one person but they are more sociable than the bigger 'tops. They love scritches.
Cons.. the powder.. the fear of plucking.. the possibility of screaming, though this is more with bigger 'toos. You cant read their eyes. But you can read their feathers still..

Also our goffins girls. Luv Bug is especially mechanical. "Wheels turning" is the best way to describe the way she analyzes how her toy parts could fit together. She comes up with ways I wouldn't have thought of.

Both of the girls adore my husband and more or less tolerate me. Luv Bug can be a little terrorist sometimes, but is always an angel for hubby. All she usually needs is a time out & she settles down pretty quickly after a short squawk. I love Puffin, and she has slowly begun accepting me to the point that she will now willingly come back to me from hubby! I'm still not her favorite, but I am a close second.

Neither of our 'toos speak but they definitely get their points across. Puffin is more clingy than Bug and can be a screamer when she's not on somebody or if Luv Bug leaves her sight, and Luv Bug will too if she wants out or just wants attention.

Both girls occasionally pluck a feather now and then, but both have gotten much better since coming to live with us. More toys and attention help, but don't guarantee no plucking. Preener toys in their night cages have helped, too.

You are mistaken on one point, though. You can absolutely read those gorgeous eyes of theirs.


I know she hasn't been on recently, but @Jenphilly has some great posts of her bare eyed, Ivory.

 

[Shezbug]

@faislaq is right... they’re both old world birds

 

[Elysian]

@faislaq is right... they’re both old world birds

Well thank you! I always just worried about them because they aren't really dusty themselves. That makes me feel so much better.

... would you still want a new bird if you weren't currently working from home? what will the bird's life be like when you transition back to the office? Be prepared to carefully manage that change of routine for your flock when you're not around as much.
... if you're on the phone a lot, do you have the space to isolate yourself from the birds?
... asking the question, whether Amazons are loud, means that it would be a problem if the new bird turned out to be.

If you've read enough re-homing ads/posts, you'll recognize that my comments are based on common reasons people end up re-homing their birds.

Good luck with your decision.

Thank you!
Mulling over these things as well
Bf and I have lived together for 8 years, I don't see anything changing there, but all the birds expenses come exclusively from my paycheck already. But I do earn less than him, and it would be harder to cover housing without him.. that is true.

I got the budgies before I started working from home, working from home has just been a covid lined bonus to our time together.
This is the main reason they have their own bedroom now instead of being in the living room 24/7. I visit them in their room up until I have to work, again at lunch, and then after work unless they are already sleepy. Except for the lunch break I'm keeping them to the same schedule they would have (in cage, me not being around/visible) if I was at the office.
I would do the same with another bird.
I do know this would mean splitting my free time between them which worries me
But the budgies don't particularly interact with me for more than 5 minute spurts. They are very independent.

Yes, screaming could be a bit of an issue until I go back to the office.. I do need a bird that is capable of entertaining itself enough for me to work. But I do also work from a different room. I believe there is alot I can do to mitigate screaming.. but i do unfortunately work a slightly abnormal shift that extends past dusk. So very loud natural calls and shouts around dusk time, which are not something it would be fair to try to stop, are going to need some more inventive trouble shooting.. my budgies don't do any of that.
They are used to the schedule and just quietly put themselves to bed during the week.
On the other hand that makes me kinda sad because I want to say goodnight and they look at me like I'm a chore.

Rehoming is something I never ever want to do

 

[Elysian]

And corellas are known for their mad puzzle solving skills!

Also our goffins girls. Luv Bug is especially mechanical. "Wheels turning" is the best way to describe the way she analyzes how her toy parts could fit together. She comes up with ways I wouldn't have thought of.

I wrote it and didnt even fully realize it until you reiterated.
This. THIS is my most important trait. This is why I have so much trouble picking a species!
It's not affection, or color, or noise level, or even talking. Its reason. It's problem solving..
It's the fact that my biggest passion in life has always, always been psychology and eventually child development.. the thing that led me to be a preschool teacher for so long.. and it's the thing that drives me about working with foster kids even when the sadness has me burnt out.. just observing the pure power in little brains, how they learn.. figure out tools..adapt to situations..
Oh man.
That's the whole why I want a bird.

I've read so many "horror stories" about cockatoo aggression though. Flying attacks to the face. Even though I think that's more likely in larger 'toos..

 

[faislaq]

I don't know that there's much difference between the larger and smaller 'toos? Except when Luv Bug is on a tear, she's a lot less scary than a larger beak with the same fury. Her beak is still sharp and can do damage, just less so.

And while Puffin is also smart, she's not into toys and puzzles as much as Luv Bug is. She'd rather chew & shred, but she's also the more cuddly of the two. Same species, very different individuals. Even their choices are totally different. You can still see Puffin's wheels turn, though.

Luv Bug was about 6 when we met her & she was very outgoing and confident. Her owners let her have run of the house when they were home, except for night time. They seemed to have encouraged mischief! I think that level of interaction may have had a lot to do with her development.

 

[faislaq]

Even their choices are totally different.

While this statement is actuate, I had meant to type "voices"!

 

[Elysian]

Ok, I'm going to leave this one up to fate.
I will see him tomorrow and ask more questions. I will pick up some perches and toys my empty cage is lacking.

But since the price (I have funds saved for this, but this particular bird is a bit steeper than the pionus, yeep), ridiculous 48 hour health guarantee, my guilt about considering a retail bird to begin with, and likelihood of aggression in cockatoos give me some pause, I will pause.

I love the personality of 'toos. My boyfriend loves the personality of 'toos. I am intelligent, dedicated, a fast learner..
but I am not qualified as an "experienced" bird owner.
I want that experience and can't get it without an actual bird.. but I don't want to cause any harm to a sensitive bird due to my lack of it.

So.
I have a four day weekend already scheduled in two weeks.
If the bird is still there next week, and I'm still thinking about him this much, this might be it. I would put a deposit on him, schedule a vet check, and bring him home on my 4 day weekend to settle in and evaluate any issues in my quarantine arrangement before the work week.

If he is gone, he was not meant for me and I just hope he doesn't end up like so many other baby 'toos rehomed after puberty.

Thank you everyone here for giving me a place to write out my thoughts and process them better than I can when they are just swirling in my own head. Talking to you all helps me channel my emotions and not feel stupid like I do when I talk to people who don't love birds.
@Kassiani @Mizzely @Feather @Zara @faislaq
@Shezbug
@flyzipper
@every single person in this crazy thread of mine

 

[Kassiani]

Good luck with your visit today! I hope it answers many of your questions

 

[Elysian]

Thank you everyone here for giving me a place to write out my thoughts and process them better than I can when they are just swirling in my own head. Talking to you all helps me channel my emotions and not feel stupid like I do when I talk to people who don't love birds.

@tka @AussieBird @Mybluebird @jzarc17

 

[Zara]

@Kassiani @Mizzely @Feather @Zara @faislaq
@Shezbug
@flyzipper

None of these tags worked because they need to be in the post when you first post it. Tags you add in during editing won´t send an alert to the member.
I´ll tag those people for you
@Kassiani @Mizzely @Feather @faislaq @Shezbug @flyzipper

 

[Mizzely]

Remember too that just because a bird has the capacity to puzzle solve does not mean that they have the drive

Good luck!

 

[Elysian]

Remember too that just because a bird has the capacity to puzzle solve does not mean that they have the drive

Good luck!

Like my budgies that don't like swings and don't ring bells!! What on earth is wrong with them?

 

[faislaq]

I will pick up some perches and toys my empty cage is lacking.

You should check out some of our vendors here. They make great stuff & you know it's bird safe, no questionable materials. Their prices are usually lower than a "comparable" toy at the store even with shipping! And sometimes they even have sales.

But since the price (I have funds saved for this, but this particular bird is a bit steeper than the pionus, yeep), ridiculous 48 hour health guarantee, my guilt about considering a retail bird to begin with, and likelihood of aggression in cockatoos give me some pause, I will pause.

Of course you don't have to choose a 'too, but even if you do it doesn't necessarily have to be that one. Maybe he's just a road sign pointing you in the right direction?

 

[Zara]

And sometimes they even have sales.

Hint hint ?

 

[Elysian]

You should check out some of our vendors here. They make great stuff & you know it's bird safe, no questionable materials. Their prices are usually lower than a "comparable" toy at the store even with shipping! And sometimes they even have sales.

Of course you don't have to choose a 'too, but even if you do it doesn't necessarily have to be that one. Maybe he's just a road sign pointing you in the right direction?

I already started picking out stuff from seriously nutz

On another note, I forced my boyfriend to watch a bunch of cockatoo attacks/bites/aggression videos this morning and asked him yet again if he is seriously sure he is okay with a bird like that.

He said 'It's just like a toddler, but somewhat cheaper'

 

[faislaq]

We love Seriously Nutz!

I forced my boyfriend to watch a bunch of cockatoo attacks/bites/aggression videos this morning and asked him yet again if he is seriously sure he is okay with a bird like that. He said 'It's just like a toddler, but somewhat cheaper'

@JLcribber made a thread about bites: Bird bite photos (Warning ~ Graphic) There are a few doozies for sure!

And who has these bitey toddlers your boyfriend is talking about??

 

[Elysian]

Update: SPEAKING OF BITES

I received a valuable piece of education today, which I am actually *thrilled* about and did in no way affect the ending of this story.. but anyway..

I went back to the store on Sunday, and the sweet baby started calling out when I came in. I cannot say this was necessarily about ME though, because obviously the store owner turned toward his cage knowing I was there to visit that bird, and I'm sure he knew that meant he was coming out.

To lay the scene, the bird has been in the store for a month. The store owner breeds and hand feeds many of the babies himself. The store sells mostly birds but for some reason recently started selling puppies too (which he does not breed himself).
He had one of the puppies out of its pen running around the store. That gave me pause but then I thought - cool! That is good socializing for both animals, right? (don't worry, no animals were harmed in this story)
Also one of the questions I asked Saturday was whether this 'too had shown any aggression to other birds, just so I could know where he is at. The store owner said he is not aggressive at all.

The store owner was standing on one side of the cage, and I was on the other. He unlocked and opened the door and the too climbed out to *me*, which was awesome! But I know not to take a 'toos affection *too* personally because they are so social and like to butter people up in general.
I'm holding the bird and asking some questions. At first after he steps up on my hand he is quietly sitting there saying "oh boy!" occasionally, and clicking his beak. Seems like good signs
Then he starts to tremble. I'm trying to evaluate whether this is happy-excited trembling, or overstimulated trembling. Then he puffs his feathers, and jumps off my hand and starts walking around on the floor. I put my hand down to try to get him to step up again and he bypasses me. I'm worried about the puppy.
The store owner says "it's ok, he just wants to walk around". I kind of like a bird that walks around (part of the appeal of 'toos and greys to me) so I step back and watch him for a second.
He makes his way over to another bird cage, and then the owner steps in and snatches him up saying "oh you leave him alone".
I said he likes to bug the other cockatoo huh? And the store owner said they don't get along. Hmm.
At some point the bird tried to climb up to another cage too, and the guy said "no you cannot go after the doves" so, double hmm.

He offers the bird back to me and birdie steps up. Then some other people come into the store, and he turns to talk to them. And the puppy runs between my legs, and the bird jumps off my hand again. I don't know if he is going after the puppy or if the puppy might go after him, but I put my hand down to offer a step up.

He's definitely over stimulated. My hand is in his way and he lunges and bites down with all of his crushing force until the skin breaks and blood starts welling up around his big, and he still doesn't let go.

Now - I'm actually thrilled about this for myself, because I DIDN'T flinch or make a sound. I got him up and I got him over to the owner's hand who said "I think its the puppy" .. well duh.
The owner didn't really notice how bad the bite was, if he even noticed I was bitten at all. So I got shy and stuck my hand in my pocket while the blood started dripping.

And I left


I feel so bad for that bird and it is 1,000 percent not that birds fault, but I did not like what I saw in the store.
And then my vet called and said she has sent "undercover" agents to the store to check it out and they report back bad things.. and that she has indeed seen ALOT of sick birds come out of there lately.

I cannot rescue the 'too because I cannot give that man $4,000. That part sucks.

But I think I learned I could eventually handle a 'too.
Not only did I take a bite without freaking the bird more, I knew that bite was coming. I understood the body language!
I needed that experience.