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Suggestion urgent plesse

Parrotkiss

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Some herbs are poisonous to one species and not another-you need to know what herbs.

ACV in the water 15 ml to a liter. Give to the parents, they’ll pass to babies.

Thats ridiculous. You didn’t “have” to. You can...
Boil the eggs and give them back
Trade for dummy eggs
Refuse to give a nest

it is impossible for us to say why the babies died, but why keep breeding if you don’t know what you are doing?

I posted this in another thread:
he problem with backyard or indiscriminate breeding is just this. People don't know what they don't know. Finding a mentor, spending a breeding season volunteering in their aviary and then not breeding until the next year makes more sense but nobody ever does it that way. They breed, do not understand the behavior or signs they see, and babies suffer or die. Just my 2 cents.
Spot on !! Couldn't have said it better.
 

Pyropus

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My guess is this person isnt in the western world based on some of the stuff said, which means its a whole other ballgame for what is posible.

I would think if you do not want chicks its better to keep them separated during breeding season. Because under your conditions, if the female starts laying loads of eggs in the wrong state of health its also going to put her health at risk, and as you said no vet around. And further if a brooder is out of question, then any but basic vet care likely are going to be as well. So preventing egglaying to help keep your animals healthy in future is probably smart.

The best you can do to avoid costy treatmeants you dont have avaliable or couldnt afford, is to do your best to prevent you animals geting sick or hurt. Reproduction always brings with it a ton of risk.
And you need to be carefull with the young ones too untill they old enough you can determine gender.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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I have a couple of questions - if you have no veterinarians to examine your birds where do you get the antibiotic metrondiazole? The only time you should give any medication is when a symptom ( the diarhhea) is vet checked with tests to determine what the health issue is. If you feed fresh foods ( vegetables or fruits) in the heat of summer you must remove those foods within 30min to an hour after giving them to your bird .... because with heat they spoil quickly, grow bacteria, and your birds are eating potentially harmful food that could be leading to their gastric problems. If you have chicks the adults are feeding they are passing possible harmful bacteria to their babies. Next -- how do you know the chicks passed away from crop stasis or sour crop? If this was the issue that caused them to die, excessive heat can cause the babies to get dehydrated and not digest the food in their crops.... within a period of time of not digesting bacteria can grow quickly. It's a miserable situation for the chicks overall and without intervention within the first onset then they die an uncomfortable death.

Water quality is very important for your adult birds as is a clean container for them to drink out of. Do you wash those cups every day and change the water a couple of times a day? What is your water source - tap water? Safe enough for you to drink? What exact food are you feeding the parents? Adult breeding hens require calcium rich food prior to breeding for her to lay healthy eggs. Laying multiple clutches is detrimental to the health of the female, depletes her system of vital nutrients, causes physical exhaustion, and can result in serious health issues for her. As long as your adult birds are on a healthy diet ( quality seed, quality pellets, fresh foods) they should be able to provide for their chicks. What's your weather like there now? Where do you keep them and what type of nest box do you have? Photos would help of the current set up. In the mean time, find a source where you can buy formula in the event your pair end up not caring for babies. Find someone who is experienced to show you how to care for them and don't rely on videos to learn how.

When this clutch is done remove the nest box, regardless if the pair continues to mate. Should they do so, replace the eggs with your dummy eggs. Cockatiels can be prolific egg layers to the detriment and serious health consequences to the hens. Since you have no available veterinarians you may end up having to separate your pair to prevent future breeding... I think this is the best option for them and you. You could still keep them side by side but in separate cages. This would give you an even better opportunity to work on handling them individually.
 

Pyropus

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prescription practises differs between countries, regions and parts of the world, i dont forsee that beeing an issue if they arent in the western world, if there are few and far between vets, likelyhood is they dont have very strict rules on animal meds either. remember there even been a practise some places that meds are put in animal food as a preventive measures even in the western world, unfortunately practises for animals are behind, its geting stricter and better in western countries, but its taking time.
 

Zara

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prescription practises differs between countries, regions and parts of the world, i dont forsee that beeing an issue if they arent in the western world, if there are few and far between vets, likelyhood is they dont have very strict rules on animal meds either. remember there even been a practise some places that meds are put in animal food as a preventive measures even in the western world, unfortunately practises for animals are behind, its geting stricter and better in western countries, but its taking time.
Even if we don´t talk about the medication, Andreas posts still has lots of important information:

If you feed fresh foods ( vegetables or fruits) in the heat of summer you must remove those foods within 30min to an hour after giving them to your bird .... because with heat they spoil quickly, grow bacteria, and your birds are eating potentially harmful food that could be leading to their gastric problems. If you have chicks the adults are feeding they are passing possible harmful bacteria to their babies. Next -- how do you know the chicks passed away from crop stasis or sour crop? If this was the issue that caused them to die, excessive heat can cause the babies to get dehydrated and not digest the food in their crops.... within a period of time of not digesting bacteria can grow quickly. It's a miserable situation for the chicks overall and without intervention within the first onset then they die an uncomfortable death.

Water quality is very important for your adult birds as is a clean container for them to drink out of. Do you wash those cups every day and change the water a couple of times a day? What is your water source - tap water? Safe enough for you to drink? What exact food are you feeding the parents? Adult breeding hens require calcium rich food prior to breeding for her to lay healthy eggs. Laying multiple clutches is detrimental to the health of the female, depletes her system of vital nutrients, causes physical exhaustion, and can result in serious health issues for her. As long as your adult birds are on a healthy diet ( quality seed, quality pellets, fresh foods) they should be able to provide for their chicks. What's your weather like there now? Where do you keep them and what type of nest box do you have? Photos would help of the current set up. In the mean time, find a source where you can buy formula in the event your pair end up not caring for babies. Find someone who is experienced to show you how to care for them and don't rely on videos to learn how.

When this clutch is done remove the nest box, regardless if the pair continues to mate. Should they do so, replace the eggs with your dummy eggs. Cockatiels can be prolific egg layers to the detriment and serious health consequences to the hens. Since you have no available veterinarians you may end up having to separate your pair to prevent future breeding... I think this is the best option for them and you. You could still keep them side by side but in separate cages. This would give you an even better opportunity to work on handling them individually.
 

Pyropus

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Oh didnt say it didnt, was just answering up why you can gets meds someplaces without having access to a vet. Break was runing short and I didnt see anything to add to it.

Its unfortunate that it is like that some places, but then forums like these, and both his and others advices become very valuable because its likely the best source of informaton there is to be had.
 

Mktiel012

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@finchly @Zara @Monica @Pyropus @Mockinbirdiva @Hankmacaw @Parrotkiss @tka
@Ripshod
First I decided I will not say anything to any of you ...I will ignore it. There's a Famous quote " Silence is the best answer to a Fool"
But then I had in my mind , if I will not reply, you people will think that I'm guilty or feeling awkward or I accepted that I was wrong.

What did I write ? What did I ask ? What mistake I made ?
I only asked can I add diluted apple cider vinegar OR Gripe water in ther food ... Also asking for a Confirm diagnosis which I already illustrated.
I wanted a humble and with respect guidance/reply.
Instead you all replied me as if I'm an illiterate / uncivilised and irresponsible person. You insulted me ,hurt me , judged me , showed racism and so much hatred towards me.

I mentioned or replied to one of you ( despite having 2 eyes maybe even 4 ) that I got it from a shopkeeper / a breeder ...and that person was not a good man.He was NOT helping me. He did NOT guide me when I first got them.. NO ONE was giving me proper guidance. I'll say that again , NO BREEDER was giving me guidance.
If they would have guided me, would I be searching online and asking YOU?

@Mockinbirdiva Andrea
You asked me a couple of questions ..
You were telling and TEACHING me about antibiotics , pathology, health and hygiene ..
FYI.. I'm a Medical Doctor.
You do know there are OTHER categories of Doctor other than veterinarians ??Example medicine / dentists / psychiatrist etc . If you didn't write it down in your pink diary ...I can say so much to you but I won't ...My upbringing , my surrounding , and my education has not taught me this.


I wanted cockatiel chicks ... Despite the parents were tamed or not tamed. I still wanted a complete cockatiel family in my house.
If I didn't want a chick , I would have taken the eggs from them.
I have kept many pets and helped many other animals in so many ways .I don't need to prove myself or show my good deeds and get a gold star from you.
Having a parrot / cockatiels was my first ..
I would have never taken the eggs from parents . I never wanted to put them in mental trauma . I wanted them to trust me .
Do you know how much stress they take ? Do you know they don't forget ?
Even Howard Voren mentioned In one of his articles that for 7 to 8 times he took clutch from the same pair, took away their chicks by third week , hand fed and sold them .. By 8th or 9th clutch the parents killed their chicks ..all chicks instantly died in front of him when he was about to take them again .

My only mistake was that I came here and asked for guidance . I didn't know I will be treated so pleasantly.

There's a famous quote
" Never judge a book by its cover "
 
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Zara

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Instead you all replied me as if I'm an illiterate / uncivilised and irresponsible person. You insulted me ,hurt me , judged me , showed racism and so much hatred towards me.
There is a report button under each post/reply, and when you see someone insulting, being racist or generally being nasty, you can click it and report it. None of those thing are allowed on the site.

I´m sorry you feel this way. I am disappointed to have donated my time today reading and responding to this thread only to receive this message tonight.

FYI, Monica, Mockinbirdiva, Hankmacaw and Finchly have so much experience under their belts, they are fountains of knowledge and members here on AA are lucky to have them around donating their time to help others. If I ever needed help, these would be the people I turn to.

I would have never taken the eggs from parents . I never wanted to put them in mental trauma . I wanted them to trust me .
Do you know how much stress they take ? Do you know they don't forget ?
For any lurkers, or people in the future reading this thread,
I go back to this:
You are not a bad human for removing eggs. And your birds would never think that, they don´t think like humans do. They wouldn´t even know because you would replace the egg with a dummy. For them it would be ¨oh, this egg didn´t hatch¨ and move on. I think that is better than allowing a clutch and the parents suffer their offspring not fledging.
I switch the eggs in a way my birds don´t see. If they are in a nestbox, block the entrance hole to keep the birds out, if you have the eggs in a dish, have the dummy in hand and drop the dummy in the nest and grab the egg quick.
Here are my little ones today, do they look like they have figured out they´ve been sitting on plastic eggs for over a week?
IMG_20200402_134149.jpg
 

finchly

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There's a Famous quote " Silence is the best answer to a Fool"
So you calling us a fool is better than what we did?

We donated time to try to help you - a complete stranger. Now you accuse us of insulting you.

We do not care if you are stupid, another race, a doctor or a garbage collector. We simply try to help people. And this is the thanks we get!

I'll go back to my happy corner with my fellow fools.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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prescription practises differs between countries, regions and parts of the world, i dont forsee that beeing an issue if they arent in the western world, if there are few and far between vets, likelyhood is they dont have very strict rules on animal meds either. remember there even been a practise some places that meds are put in animal food as a preventive measures even in the western world, unfortunately practises for animals are behind, its geting stricter and better in western countries, but its taking time.
The problem with taking antibiotics for an extended period of time as a preventative is this -

Does antibiotics suppress immune system?

While investigating the side effects of antibiotics and how bacteria can develop resistance to them, researchers from MIT and Harvard have found that the drugs can actually work against the body, weakening the immune system's ability to fight off the bugs.


Antibiotics are prescribed for a specific health issue. Without a professional diagnosis the wrong antibiotic will not affect or treat the problem if it is not specific for the health issue. While it seems the diarrhea in this persons birds may have stopped after giving the antibiotic she has, it's a recurrent problem so attention to environment and husbandry skills must be evaluated to prevent the diarrhea rather than repeated use of the drug which, in the long term will not be effective if these birds build up an immunity to the effectiveness of the drug.
 

Shezbug

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Umm am I missing something??? Tka did not even make a comment in this thread :think1: I did though :)
 

Mockinbirdiva

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@finchly @Zara @Monica @Pyropus @Mockinbirdiva @Hankmacaw @Parrotkiss @tka
@Ripshod
First I decided I will not say anything to any of you ...I will ignore it. There's a Famous quote " Silence is the best answer to a Fool"
But then I had in my mind , if I will not reply, you people will think that I'm guilty or feeling awkward or I accepted that I was wrong.

What did I write ? What did I ask ? What mistake I made ?
I only asked can I add diluted apple cider vinegar OR Gripe water in ther food ... Also asking for a Confirm diagnosis which I already illustrated.
I wanted a humble and with respect guidance/reply.
Instead you all replied me as if I'm an illiterate / uncivilised and irresponsible person. You insulted me ,hurt me , judged me , showed racism and so much hatred towards me.

I mentioned or replied to one of you ( despite having 2 eyes maybe even 4 ) that I got it from a shopkeeper / a breeder ...and that person was not a good man.He was NOT helping me. He did NOT guide me when I first got them.. NO ONE was giving me proper guidance. I'll say that again , NO BREEDER was giving me guidance.
If they would have guided me, would I be searching online and asking YOU?

@Mockinbirdiva Andrea
You asked me a couple of questions ..
You were telling and TEACHING me about antibiotics , pathology, health and hygiene ..
FYI.. I'm a Medical Doctor.
You do know there are OTHER categories of Doctor other than veterinarians ??Example medicine / dentists / psychiatrist etc . If you didn't write it down in your pink diary ...I can say so much to you but I won't ...My upbringing , my surrounding , and my education has not taught me this.


I wanted cockatiel chicks ... Despite the parents were tamed or not tamed. I still wanted a complete cockatiel family in my house.
If I didn't want a chick , I would have taken the eggs from them.
I have kept many pets and helped many other animals in so many ways .I don't need to prove myself or show my good deeds and get a gold star from you.
Having a parrot / cockatiels was my first ..
I would have never taken the eggs from parents . I never wanted to put them in mental trauma . I wanted them to trust me .
Do you know how much stress they take ? Do you know they don't forget ?
Even Howard Voren mentioned In one of his articles that for 7 to 8 times he took clutch from the same pair, took away their chicks by third week , hand fed and sold them .. By 8th or 9th clutch the parents killed their chicks ..all chicks instantly died in front of him when he was about to take them again .

My only mistake was that I came here and asked for guidance . I didn't know I will be treated so pleasantly.

There's a famous quote
" Never judge a book by its cover "
@Mktiel012

You asked legitimate questions for your concerns. We gave you legitimate answers that were in NO WAY Condescending, Insulting, Judgemental, Racist, nor Hateful. Every reply to your questions were answered ... respectfully.. Perhaps you missed the ACV 15ml to one liter in one reply, and that none of us can diagnose the cause of death of your previous lost clutch of babies. We did offer information ( I think I covered it well) based on what little information you provided about how you take care of your birds regarding everything. We know nothing about you and offer as much as we can. You never mentioned you were a doctor... you sure could've provided that information when mentioning giving your birds the antibiotics including the dosage. In this case.... I would expect you to know better. It's apparent your birds have recurring problems and I certainly thought there was no harm in mentioning any of what I wrote. Any information is helpful given when we don't know how you go about your daily care for your birds. Many times new posters neglect to give us details to help us respond properly.

I cared enough about your birds ( unlike you allowing them to breed again without improving your knowledge from the first fiasco of chicks dying) to reply with helpful information. A simple thank you would have sufficed but instead you replied with an inflammatory response insulting those of us who tried to help you.

So.... I'll write this in my PiNK DIARY to never, ever respond to any of your posts.
 
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Hankmacaw

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When in danger, when in doubt pull out the old racist card - especially since there is not one iota of racism on this form. Guess it works as an excuse for you - DOCTOR. LOLOLOLOL
 

Hankmacaw

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Doctors and pink diaries, what did I miss ;)
Not much @Karen - just some competent knowledgeable people attempting to help a self centered, child who didn't like the honest answers she got.
 

tka

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Umm am I missing something??? Tka did not even make a comment in this thread :think1: I did though :)
Yeah, I dunno :shrug:

I will say that I come from a highly educated family: two of us hold academic doctorates and two of us are medical doctors. None of this translated into innately knowing about parrot care. I had to start from the beginning again. What my years of education gave me was an ability to find information, to ask good questions and to recognise expertise. I found that expertise on this forum. People on this forum are genuinely willing to help, especially if it's to save a bird's life, and it's very sad that you respond to that well-intentioned help in such a way.
 

Pyropus

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The problem with taking antibiotics for an extended period of time as a preventative is this -

Does antibiotics suppress immune system?

While investigating the side effects of antibiotics and how bacteria can develop resistance to them, researchers from MIT and Harvard have found that the drugs can actually work against the body, weakening the immune system's ability to fight off the bugs.


Antibiotics are prescribed for a specific health issue. Without a professional diagnosis the wrong antibiotic will not affect or treat the problem if it is not specific for the health issue. While it seems the diarrhea in this persons birds may have stopped after giving the antibiotic she has, it's a recurrent problem so attention to environment and husbandry skills must be evaluated to prevent the diarrhea rather than repeated use of the drug which, in the long term will not be effective if these birds build up an immunity to the effectiveness of the drug.
Oh I fully agree, however my point was meant to be that while many places restrictions are beeing applied, they arent unified across the world, and so unfortunately both in past, and present, there arent always the restrictions there should be for various reasons. And so some places its fully posible to get hold of meds without perscription, that should be on perscription.
 

Pyropus

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As for my replies, I have never said or thougth you were illiterate. However it comes with studying that we learn an academic language that is not always good to communicate to others outside our field with. What we get told is this is a problem when advicing people not in our profession, because they cant follow you in your thougth process, so try to explain as you would to a child.

And you know I get confirmation despite trying to keep that in mind on a regular basis that they were rigth, but sometimes you miss and run into people who has the premises. When people do that to me, I just afirm and let them know I get it and has the same basics..so we can skip ahead

Another thing with animals, sometimes the answer you get is not always only what you ask, because sometimes you give information people will pick up on things that there are other things in it you should think about.

And yes maybe the person knows, but other times they dont, and so its between saying what you observe and maybe feed them info they have, or not saying something and risk them not geting information they didnt have and would liked to have had if given an option.

And despite that some people will troll online and cause drama, my experiece is the wast majority do not, so its far more likely there is a missunderstanding in comunication, then someone dislikeing or having something against you online.

I hope you stick around, and enjoy the forum, I certainly have nothing against you, despite what you may think.
 
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