Stunted baby (Sad update #52)

[Mococlark]

Well, seems you are doing pretty good & am on track. Weighing in grams & Monica gave great info on food portion in relation to body weight.
I think alot of chicks hatched by brooder can have a slow start even in professional hands so you are doing great. They can catch up or not but have to do whats right for them & so what if they are a bit smaller as long as they are healthy.

Feeding from day one is not the easiest thing to do but you have provided the heat & humidity which is great.

6 hours between feedings is probably too long between feedings for s small young chick as it could slow down the metabolism & you don;t want that. Its like having a baby & setting an alarm to get up & give them a 4AM feeding...

Good Luck & hope all goes well...

Thank you so much for the encouraging words! I just want a healthy little guy...and I’m going to throw in another night feeding starting tonight. You’re right—it’s just like a newborn baby! I haven’t been this tired since I had a human baby, haha

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

Thank you so much for the encouraging words! I just want a healthy little guy...and I’m going to throw in another night feeding starting tonight. You’re right—it’s just like a newborn baby! I haven’t been this tired since I had a human baby, haha

One word of caution... if you are going to add an extra feeding during the night make sure it's crop is completely empty before feeding. Adding new food on top of food that is still in the crop can lead to a sour crop which can result in bacterial or fungal infections. Here's more good information for you to read about this:

Crop Emptying Problems - Slow Crop / Sour Crop

A chick’s crop must empty completely once every twenty-four hours. If it doesn’t, there is a good chance that a sour crop could be developing in the chick. If

www.beautyofbirds.com

 

[Mococlark]

One word of caution... if you are going to add an extra feeding during the night make sure it's crop is completely empty before feeding. Adding new food on top of food that is still in the crop can lead to a sour crop which can result in bacterial or fungal infections. Here's more good information for you to read about this:

Crop Emptying Problems - Slow Crop / Sour Crop

A chick’s crop must empty completely once every twenty-four hours. If it doesn’t, there is a good chance that a sour crop could be developing in the chick. If

www.beautyofbirds.com

This is where I get confused! I feel like I read conflicting info. I’m sure I’m misunderstanding something obvious.
But I read that you only need to let the crop empty once every 24 hours. Then I also read that you should only feed when they have an empty crop!
...my plan as of now was to let the crop empty once at night. The rest of the time I will top him off every two hours to get weight up (his crop empties at around 3 hours). Is that a good plan?

Because I had read about sour crop, I only fed when the crop was empty for the first weekish. I’m afraid that may have been a mistake. What do you think about my plan as of now?

Thank you!

 

[Monica]

If the crop empties around 3 hours, then adding in an extra feeding between 6 hours should be fine.

 

[camelotshadow]

Crop emptying in 3 hours is great & signals the chick should be fed every 4 hours or so. That;s why I said 4AM not 3...when you fed at 12A...

Your on track now...think of it like a car...when it runs out of gas..time to refuel or else the chick is stranded..

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

Sorry I didn't get back sooner. If you feel he needs that one additional feeding between 12 and 6 just be sure his crop is completely empty. If it isn't then don't feed and wait until the morning. For any of the feedings during the day - if there is ample food still in the crop then wait until it empties. If a crop is still half full you do not want to add more formula to the crop to avoid sour crop. Cooler temperatures of formula can cause the crop to slow down so be sure to have the correct temperature of formula. What formula are you using, how do you mix it, how do you check the temperature?

Ignore these chart thingies below. Earlier I was looking for information to post and now it won't let me delete the charts.


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[Mococlark]

Sorry I didn't get back sooner. If you feel he needs that one additional feeding between 12 and 6 just be sure his crop is completely empty. If it isn't then don't feed and wait until the morning. For any of the feedings during the day - if there is ample food still in the crop then wait until it empties. If a crop is still half full you do not want to add more formula to the crop to avoid sour crop. Cooler temperatures of formula can cause the crop to slow down so be sure to have the correct temperature of formula. What formula are you using, how do you mix it, how do you check the temperature?

Ignore these chart thingies below. Earlier I was looking for information to post and now it won't let me delete the charts.


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Thank you! I’m using Kaytee exact, mixed to applesauce consistency, at 95-100 degrees taken with a human mouth style thermometer. I hear the water, then mix, then take the temp.

I just found this online, what do you guys think about using a high fat formula instead of regular Kaytee exact?

 

[Monica]

Thank you! I’m using Kaytee exact, mixed to applesauce consistency, at 95-100 degrees taken with a human mouth style thermometer. I hear the water, then mix, then take the temp.

I just found this online, what do you guys think about using a high fat formula instead of regular Kaytee exact?

That might be a part of the problem there... the temperature of the formula should be about 105°, or between 102 to 110 in temp.


As far as the high fat formula? Please don't. This is designed for large parrots that require the extra fat. In small birds, it can very quickly lead to gout or other health issues. I understand the reason behind it, just could not recommend it.

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

Thank you! I’m using Kaytee exact, mixed to applesauce consistency, at 95-100 degrees taken with a human mouth style thermometer. I hear the water, then mix, then take the temp.

I just found this online, what do you guys think about using a high fat formula instead of regular Kaytee exact?

I agree with @Monica. The temperature of the formula needs to be at least 105 degrees. A more accurate thermometer would be a digital thermometer... quicker read out on the temp... any pharmacy will carry them. If the formula is hotter than it should be you can leave the thermometer in the formula and when it starts to drop down to 105-107 you can pull it up in your syringe to feed. It's also helpful to maintain the temperature of the formula if you mix it in a cup and set that cup inside a bowl of warm water. Be sure to mix a fresh batch of formula for every feeding.

 

[Mococlark]

That might be a part of the problem there... the temperature of the formula should be about 105°, or between 102 to 110 in temp.


As far as the high fat formula? Please don't. This is designed for large parrots that require the extra fat. In small birds, it can very quickly lead to gout or other health issues. I understand the reason behind it, just could not recommend it.

Great to know, thank you! I’ll raise up that temp. started next feeding!

 

[Mococlark]

I agree with @Monica. The temperature of the formula needs to be at least 105 degrees. A more accurate thermometer would be a digital thermometer... quicker read out on the temp... any pharmacy will carry them. If the formula is hotter than it should be you can leave the thermometer in the formula and when it starts to drop down to 105-107 you can pull it up in your syringe to feed. It's also helpful to maintain the temperature of the formula if you mix it in a cup and set that cup inside a bowl of warm water. Be sure to mix a fresh batch of formula for every feeding.

Thank you, I’ll raise the temp up at next feeding! I am using a digital thermometer. It’s the kind you’d put under your tongue when you’re sick, is that what you mean? Thank you so much

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

Thank you, I’ll raise the temp up at next feeding! I am using a digital thermometer. It’s the kind you’d put under your tongue when you’re sick, is that what you mean? Thank you so much

Yes.... I thought you were referring to the old fashioned kind of thermometer. Just be sure to not go over 109 degrees to avoid burning the crop with hot formula. Back in the day when I raised birds my temp was always 105-107.

 

[Mococlark]

Yes.... I thought you were referring to the old fashioned kind of thermometer. Just be sure to not go over 109 degrees to avoid burning the crop with hot formula. Back in the day when I raised birds my temp was always 105-107.

Nope, I don’t have time to shake an old fashioned one. But apparent my thermometer just says “hot” after 110, so I’m using my probe thermometer which seems great. Texting as I wait for it to cool to 107. Thank you again, hope this makes a big difference!

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

Nope, I don’t have time to shake an old fashioned one. But apparent my thermometer just says “hot” after 110, so I’m using my probe thermometer which seems great. Texting as I wait for it to cool to 107. Thank you again, hope this makes a big difference!

It should make a difference. Formula at cooler temps can lower the body temperature of the baby slowing down the digestion and too cool can allow the formula sit long enough to slow the crop down and cause bacteria to grow. Here's a quick search article for you to read about crop stasis AKA sour crop. Also... be sure to sterilize all of your utensils you are using for feeding. If you like, take a photo of your set up with the baby in it. Don't know if it's been mentioned but if you have a heating pad under the container the baby is in you will only want the heating pad to be under one half of the underside of the container... so if they baby gets too warm he can move away from the heat source. I'm sure you're keeping a Momma eagle eye on him.

Crop Stasis or 'Sour Crop' In Birds - The Lake Veterinary Hospitals Articles

Crop stasis is a disorder of unweaned or hand-fed baby birds. It is due to the failure of the crop to empty of food, resulting in the fermentation of food.

www.lakevet.com.au

 

[Peachfaced]

I don't have anything to add as I've never raised a chick before, but I hope for the absolute best for you and your little one. You can do it, baby bird!

 

[Mococlark]

It should make a difference. Formula at cooler temps can lower the body temperature of the baby slowing down the digestion and too cool can allow the formula sit long enough to slow the crop down and cause bacteria to grow. Here's a quick search article for you to read about crop stasis AKA sour crop. Also... be sure to sterilize all of your utensils you are using for feeding. If you like, take a photo of your set up with the baby in it. Don't know if it's been mentioned but if you have a heating pad under the container the baby is in you will only want the heating pad to be under one half of the underside of the container... so if they baby gets too warm he can move away from the heat source. I'm sure you're keeping a Momma eagle eye on him.

Crop Stasis or 'Sour Crop' In Birds - The Lake Veterinary Hospitals Articles

Crop stasis is a disorder of unweaned or hand-fed baby birds. It is due to the failure of the crop to empty of food, resulting in the fermentation of food.

www.lakevet.com.au

Thank you so much! You know, when his mama rejected him I read up on everything, including food temps & crop stasis...but somewhere along the onslaught of info some things got jumbled/forgotten. Do you ever wish you were a computer? Haha I do...

Thank you for that, I’m hopeful because his crop has been emptying, & is soft & not hard. It was tricky last night getting food temps right but I think I got it down now (big super hot bowl of water, cup inside...). Just fed him 107 degree food. The stuff he eats with is cleaner than the stuff I eat with probably.

Thank you again, and if I get a minute today I’ll certainly send a pic of the setup, that’s a great idea.

Thank you everyone here. Moco has gained one oz since I first posted two days ago. It’s a gain, but hopefully enough of one.

 

[Mococlark]

I said one oz, but I meant one gram. Moco has gained one gram in 2 days. Sorry, it’s early

 

[Mococlark]

Ok, silly question time since you guys are so awesome.
Am I right in feeding him, putting him back into the dark brooder, & not handling him again until I feed him? This is what I’ve been doing because I figured the most important thing is to sleep and grow.
But the mommy side of me sees a baby all alone in a dark box with nothing but a small stuffed McDonald’s toy and feels bad.
Should I spend time with Moco? Or is he alright in there? I wish he had a sibling to snuggle.
Thanks again

 

[Zara]

He will be fine. When he is a little older, with feathers growing all over then you can spend a few minutes holding him here and there. While they are little down covered chicks, let them grow

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

Thank you so much! You know, when his mama rejected him I read up on everything, including food temps & crop stasis...but somewhere along the onslaught of info some things got jumbled/forgotten. Do you ever wish you were a computer? Haha I do...

Thank you for that, I’m hopeful because his crop has been emptying, & is soft & not hard. It was tricky last night getting food temps right but I think I got it down now (big super hot bowl of water, cup inside...). Just fed him 107 degree food. The stuff he eats with is cleaner than the stuff I eat with probably.

Thank you again, and if I get a minute today I’ll certainly send a pic of the setup, that’s a great idea.

Thank you everyone here. Moco has gained one oz since I first posted two days ago. It’s a gain, but hopefully enough of one.

Fat chance I'll ever be a computer.... that's why I have a computer....

Glad to hear his crop is emptying and his tiny weight gain. I suspect he'll make good strides with your care and with the proper temperature of the formula he should absorb more nutrients and begin to pick up more weight. Here's an article I just looked up. It's a lengthy read, I scanned the paragraphs and found good information that may cover what you've already read. Some will pertain to your situation and some may not but all good information.

Nutritional Observations, Hand-Feeding Formulas, and Digestion in Exotic Birds - Hari

Proper dietary nutrition and food quality are important in fast-growing exotic birds. The right balance of protein (amino acids), energy (fat), solids (water), and other

hari.ca