Stunted baby cockatiel?

[abeille]

I have a very tiny baby.
She hatched from a very tiny egg. She hatched at 2 grams.
At 5 days old, she weighed 6 grams. She gains only about a gram a day. She didn't gain yesterday.

She does have a sister in the nest. Yesterday, at 10 days, sister weighed 41 grams. (I weigh them around lunchtime, so I can be consistent on days that I have to work)

This photo was taken this morning, when I was washing her face off. (Mom is much better at feeding but still gets it all over them.)

The parents are definitely feeding her; she is very loud and active when she wants food. She is just so tiny.

My question is, what, if anything, could I be doing to help her?

 

[Daisy's Mom]

I think Mods need to move this to 911 section.. I'll PM one.. Hopefully our resident cockatiel expert Suzanne see this..

 

[GG.]

I moved this to the 911 section where I think you will get more help

(Thanks Tiffany for the heads up )

 

[birdlvr466]

I am sure someone can give you good advice. My thoughts are with you and your tiny one.

 

[srtiels]

Here is a link that has a couple pix's of stunted babies: Babies in Trouble pictures by Mousebirds-and-more - Photobucket Your baby does not show these signs...yet...but the growth rate appears more from nutritional defeciencies of not being fed enough. From the pix the crop should be 4 times that size shown and packed with food almost around the clock for the first 10-12 days of age. I would suggest that you mix up formula and supplement feed the baby several times a day while in the nest or pull the clutch and start handfeeding them.
1...Formula temps should be 104-106 degrees.
2...Thickness of the formula about the consistency of babyfood applesause.
3...Weigh and calculate 10% of body weight to handfeed per feeding.
4...Never save and reuse mixed formula.
5...ALWAYS allow the crop to empty between EACH feeding.

Since you will be mixing just a small amount of formula per feeding times to avoid waste:

1...Weigh the babies to calculate 10% of body weight. Ex, if the baby is 40 grams, it will be fed 4cc (or ml) of formula.
2...Once you know the calculated weight of the babies measure that amount of water into a cup.
3...Warm the water and then mix in the formula.
4...Use a thermometer to measure the temp.
5...To keep the mixed formula warm (so that it doesn't cool down while feeding) place in a pan of warm water.
6...Hold the head firmly, neck stretched upwards, and formula is fed to the babies right side of the throat. Release formula slowly as needed watching that the baby is swallowing it.

This forum must've changed how to post pix's so I will direct you to a thread on another cockatiel forum that I spend most of my time that has some help info and pixs: Hand-Feeding Chart - Talk Cockatiels Forums

 

[abeille]

Okay, I weighed her again at the usual time. She weighs 7 grams today, at 6 days old.
Her crop doesn't look like it has much in it right now. What is it in feels on the hard side but I'm not really sure because I don't know what I'm doing. It doesn't feel like the bigger baby's crop. I think I hear mom feeding the little baby right now, actually, because it is usually the louder feeder of the two.

I've also noticed that both mom and dad are starting to leave the nest for short periods of time. I find them wandering about together. The babies don't feel chilled when I check on them but the little baby will have managed to wedge itself under the much larger sibling. I thought I read somewhere that this usually happens around 10 days old but I can't find the source again. Is this something I ought to worry about?

Sorry for the two posts in a row. I'm easily paranoid.

 

[srtiels]

What is it in feels on the hard side but I'm not really sure because I don't know what I'm doing.
------------------------------

In order for us to help you you need to be more desrciptive. Define hard. Such as does it feel like a bean bag and the contents move around like food. Is the skin transparent enough to see some of the crop contents? Or does it feel like a hard grisly mass of skin bunched up in the bottom of the crop. ALL of the previous mentioned mean different things in order to know what to suggest.

 

[abeille]

Here is a link that has a couple pix's of stunted babies: Babies in Trouble pictures by Mousebirds-and-more - Photobucket Your baby does not show these signs...yet...but the growth rate appears more from nutritional defeciencies of not being fed enough. From the pix the crop should be 4 times that size shown and packed with food almost around the clock for the first 10-12 days of age. I would suggest that you mix up formula and supplement feed the baby several times a day while in the nest or pull the clutch and start handfeeding them.
1...Formula temps should be 104-106 degrees.
2...Thickness of the formula about the consistency of babyfood applesause.
3...Weigh and calculate 10% of body weight to handfeed per feeding.
4...Never save and reuse mixed formula.
5...ALWAYS allow the crop to empty between EACH feeding.

Since you will be mixing just a small amount of formula per feeding times to avoid waste:

1...Weigh the babies to calculate 10% of body weight. Ex, if the baby is 40 grams, it will be fed 4cc (or ml) of formula.
2...Once you know the calculated weight of the babies measure that amount of water into a cup.
3...Warm the water and then mix in the formula.
4...Use a thermometer to measure the temp.
5...To keep the mixed formula warm (so that it doesn't cool down while feeding) place in a pan of warm water.
6...Hold the head firmly, neck stretched upwards, and formula is fed to the babies right side of the throat. Release formula slowly as needed watching that the baby is swallowing it.

This forum must've changed how to post pix's so I will direct you to a thread on another cockatiel forum that I spend most of my time that has some help info and pixs: Hand-Feeding Chart - Talk Cockatiels Forums

I called the local pet store; they only sell Kaytee brand formula. Is this a good one?
If I'm doing supplemental feedings, how often should I be doing this? Do I still feed the full 10%? (.7 cc?) The parents do feed her and I would really like for them to continue that too.

 

[abeille]

What is it in feels on the hard side but I'm not really sure because I don't know what I'm doing.
------------------------------

In order for us to help you you need to be more desrciptive. Define hard. Such as does it feel like a bean bag and the contents move around like food. Is the skin transparent enough to see some of the crop contents? Or does it feel like a hard grisly mass of skin bunched up in the bottom of the crop. ALL of the previous mentioned mean different things in order to know what to suggest.

The skin is transparent enough to see the crop contents. It looks like the older baby's crop- a mixture of black and tan. It feels like a bean bag- the stuff moves around. Its just stiffer than the older baby's crop. Doesn't move around quite as easily.

 

[srtiels]

Kaytee is fine. Yes...fed 10% of body weight. Go to the other forum (will have to subscribe) and print out the handfeeding chart. If you need to post there it is easier for me to post pix's and help there.

If you are just going to do supplemental feedings check the baby 3-4 times a day. if the crop does not look full and round (flexible not hard packed) then supplement feed.

 

[abeille]

Susanne,
I wish you lived closer to me.
I'd bring you a batch of cookies for all of this help.

 

[srtiels]

LOL....If you lived closer I would just work with the baby to turn it around if needed Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[srtiels]

It feels like a bean bag- the stuff moves around. Its just stiffer than the older baby's crop. Doesn't move around quite as easily.
---------------------------------------

OK...what you will do is mix up a little watery formula. The reason why watery is more for hydration than nutrients right now....and this will soften the crop. If the crop contents do not have enough fluids in them they are harder for the baby to digest effeciently and in a timely manner. The additional fluids help to make the contents move earier through the digestive tract and be digested and also helps hydrate the system.

 

[abeille]

It feels like a bean bag- the stuff moves around. Its just stiffer than the older baby's crop. Doesn't move around quite as easily.
---------------------------------------

OK...what you will do is mix up a little watery formula. The reason why watery is more for hydration than nutrients right now....and this will soften the crop. If the crop contents do not have enough fluids in them they are harder for the baby to digest effeciently and in a timely manner. The additional fluids help to make the contents move earier through the digestive tract and be digested and also helps hydrate the system.

Okay, so I bought the formula, brought it home, experimented with it (how to mix it, how to keep it warm, etc.), researched how to feed young babies and watched several videos to get a feel for it... checked on baby and shes stuffed (not overly, either). I told mom "good job" and put the baby back. I'll check on her in a few hours before bed and make sure shes full.

The older baby threw a hissy-fit. She figured out hissing the other day and does it for everything now, including parental change overs and hunger. I believe you said somewhere that hissy-fit behaviors are often an indication of female babies?

 

[birdlvr466]

Great job Susanne on the help..

 

[srtiels]

LOL....many times the hissy, rocking and striking out with the beak babies (especially pearls) tend to be females. And the real cry babies that want to take forever to wean tend to be males. Not alway 100% but say about 75% of the time.

 

[abeille]

So I pulled out the baby to check on her again. Her crop is full. I weighed her, with her full crop, and she was at 10. I'm hopeful that she grew some and that the 3 grams weren't all just food.

I've been experimenting more with the formula. I'm finding that I'm finding it difficult to keep it at the right temperature. I think it might be because I'm mixing up so little at a time (.7 cc). Is there a trick for small batches? Right now I'm leaving the syringe full of food in a coffee mug of hot water that I allow to cool to the right temperature.

 

[srtiels]

When mixing small amounts I use a shot glass to mix the formula in. The shot glass is sitting in the pan of warm water as I mix the formula.

OK...as to determoning weight on a fed baby. Weigh before and after feeding. You will notice that every cc of formula is equal to 1 gram in body weight.

This scales is a good scale to have for weighing little tiny babies: http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Signature-Digital-Pocket/dp/B002SC3LLS/ref=pd_sbs_k_1 Most scales weigh in 1 gram increments. This scales can weigh. in increments 1/10 of a gram which is very helpful with weighing new hatchlings or small species of babies such as finches, etc.

It is also good for weighing eggs close to hatch to determine if they are losing too much moisture which can result in a chick getting stuck in the shell and dying.

 

[abeille]

Update:

Baby (Named Bittorrent, although my husband wants to change it to µtorrent) weighed 12 grams of this morning, 8 days old, although I did weigh her an hour early. That is up 5 grams from two days ago. Progress.
I've assisted fed twice. I leave her alone if I notice she has food in her. Not sure how successful I was- we did make a mess, the baby and I. Her crop feels very soft now, though, like the other baby.
She seems alert, except when she wants to sleep (like this photo), and is very squeaky and very loud. Her color is nice and pink and consistent. No pale wings or feet.

The other baby, who is actually named Nybble, was in a good mood today and looked around. Sometimes, she squeezes her eyes shut and refuses to open them. All these pin feathers! I think she's an adorable pin cushion. Look! Crest feathers! Her tail feathers are coming in straight and even. They look a little curved in this photo but I wonder if that is just her posture here.
She weighed 54 today, although I weighed her an hour early. 13 days old today.

 

[Anne & Gang]

good job!!!!!! how incredibly adorable they are..