Stubbornly little thing

[Scratchpaw]

Hello everyone! My IRN Pearl is about 5 years old, give or take a couple of months. We got her and another baby IRN at the same time from a breeder who offered them to us for free (big red flag) after avian polynomavirus ran its course through her aviary. The two we got, Pearl and Pippin, were the only two baby ringnecks who survived. We got them at four months old and kept them in the same cage since we had only anticipated getting one bird. Pippin is no longer with me, but Pearl is doing more than enough to keep me occupied.

I'm undeniably her mama. She doesn't hate anyone else in the family, but it's clear that she vastly prefers me. She preens my hair, sits on my head, and generally won't leave me alone when I'm in the room. Problem is, I think her bluffing ended up reinforcing the biting behavior, despite my best efforts otherwise. Now five years down the line, she still doesn't know how to step up which is a pretty huge problem. She mostly goes after hands.
I touch trained her in an attempt to start teaching her to step up and gradually trying to get her closer to my hand. Whenever she has to reach for the treat, she refuses to touch my hand in any way, and will lunge if she knows she's going to have to, and I've tried to start getting her to associate hands with good things by reinforcing using treats (holding my hand far enough away that she doesn't feel that she needs to run, but close enough that it might push her boundaries a bit. I make the treat visible to her while my hand is nearby, then click and give her the treat when she doesn't bite, or turn around for a couple of seconds when she does then offer her another chance.)

She just seems so stubborn at this point that I'm very discouraged. I want to be able to play with her and love her the way she deserves, but I can't transport her away from her cage to get her used to new spaces or train her. I'm starting to worry that she's going to start plucking out of boredom. She stays on the top of her cage with many offerings of toys to chew on or forage in, but she seems pretty much uninterested. Pearl sits and preens a lot which has become quite unnerving to me.

Sorry for the textwall, but I just really want to hear the thoughts and advice other ringneck owners since I don't have a lot of resources in my city.

 

[Yoshi&Raphi]

Hello everyone! My IRN Pearl is about 5 years old, give or take a couple of months. We got her and another baby IRN at the same time from a breeder who offered them to us for free (big red flag) after avian polynomavirus ran its course through her aviary. The two we got, Pearl and Pippin, were the only two baby ringnecks who survived. We got them at four months old and kept them in the same cage since we had only anticipated getting one bird. Pippin is no longer with me, but Pearl is doing more than enough to keep me occupied.

I'm undeniably her mama. She doesn't hate anyone else in the family, but it's clear that she vastly prefers me. She preens my hair, sits on my head, and generally won't leave me alone when I'm in the room. Problem is, I think her bluffing ended up reinforcing the biting behavior, despite my best efforts otherwise. Now five years down the line, she still doesn't know how to step up which is a pretty huge problem. She mostly goes after hands.
I touch trained her in an attempt to start teaching her to step up and gradually trying to get her closer to my hand. Whenever she has to reach for the treat, she refuses to touch my hand in any way, and will lunge if she knows she's going to have to, and I've tried to start getting her to associate hands with good things by reinforcing using treats (holding my hand far enough away that she doesn't feel that she needs to run, but close enough that it might push her boundaries a bit. I make the treat visible to her while my hand is nearby, then click and give her the treat when she doesn't bite, or turn around for a couple of seconds when she does then offer her another chance.)

She just seems so stubborn at this point that I'm very discouraged. I want to be able to play with her and love her the way she deserves, but I can't transport her away from her cage to get her used to new spaces or train her. I'm starting to worry that she's going to start plucking out of boredom. She stays on the top of her cage with many offerings of toys to chew on or forage in, but she seems pretty much uninterested. Pearl sits and preens a lot which has become quite unnerving to me.

Sorry for the textwall, but I just really want to hear the thoughts and advice other ringneck owners since I don't have a lot of resources in my city.

Can you teach her to step up on a stick?

 

[sunnysmom]

@cassiesdad ?

 

[cassiesdad]

Pearl is definitely being a Ringneck...they have such an aversion to hands...even to their favorite person's hands.

Can you teach her to step up on a stick?

...that's an idea...they're very intelligent birds...Pearl might feel more comfortable coming and sitting on a stick, rather than a hand. Why don't you give it a try.

You've hit on another trait of Ringnecks...goodness, are they STUBBORN...also very opinionated at times. They seem convinced that they alone know the right way of doing things.

Our Titan definitely did not like hands...but he'd gladly hitch a ride on your shoulder or follow you around the house, like a 4 inch high shadow.

I know it's very frustrating at times dealing with these intelligent, opinionated birds...

 

[Scratchpaw]

Thank you for the suggestions! I'll try the stick, but she likes to chew on sticks as something to do during the day. It's my hope that this is going to be a battle of wills and that she learned from her mama instead of a permanent issue

It's so good to hear from other ringneck owners though. It's a huge relief to know that she's a healthy level of sassy and that I'm not alone in this struggle... I'm having to teach her to play with toys again because she used to spend most of her time interacting with our other bird. Silly little thing won't touch them if they don't have food in them. It's...a process...

 

[cassiesdad]

"Sassy" is a perfect word to describe it.

I'm having to teach her to play with toys again because she used to spend most of her time interacting with our other bird. Silly little thing won't touch them if they don't have food in them. It's...a process...

You're a great person for doing this...sounds like Pearl would be a good candidate for foraging toys...it's a fun activity that keeps a bird sharp mentally and physically...

 

[Scratchpaw]

Thank you so much! I hate the thought of her sitting around all day with nothing to do. Part of the reason I'm so desperate to teach her to step up is so that she can hang out with me without being a menace to the rest of the household
I know I get awfully bored sitting around in the same place all day so it's the least I can do to provide her with some stimulation.

 

[TwoGreenFids]

Oh my word, thank you SO much for posting this!!! Seriously, when I told my husband the description of your Pearl, he asked whether I was certain I wasn't just reading an old post about our Popsicle!!!

My female IRN (just over 2 yrs) is *exactly* like Pearl, even though we have a male IRN to annoy her (keep her company). It's so bizarre, she doesn't seem to know how to play with toys! No bird toy I've ever bought has been of interest to her unless she can see a treat in it. And I had exactly the same fear about boredom, especially because now that she's all hormonal she IS plucking. Thanks to some help from other folks in this forum though, I think we've got her sorted. Her new favourite thing? Paper towel. We've set out rolls of it, and one roll of toilet paper, around the house to help satisfy her desire to shred. And she seems to be having a great time too! Both of my birds also have their own foraging baskets, as you can see in the photo. I mix up tissue, cardboard, paper, twigs, leaves, pinecones etc along with a bit of their regular pellet food and a mix of seed treats. They get quite pleased with themselves whenever they discover something! Maybe these might be some ideas for Pearl? My babes have free reign in the house, which helps keep them occupied, but I know this isn't everyone's preference (we spend a LOT of time cleaning) and for many families simply isn't possible. My point here is that even with lots of space, my girl sounds just like yours. So it is likely more her personality than something you are doing "wrong". But I would definitely recommend paper towel, especially the recycled non-bleached kind you can get at Costco.

As for the hands. BEEN. THERE. Yikes. I can give my girl a kiss without fear of a peck but if I tried to pet her, watch out! She usually likes to be in the same room as me though, and is happy to sit on my head or shoulder, and I love it when she preens me. From the sounds of it, I don't think Pearl is lacking any amount of love. It sounds like she is getting exactly what she needs as far as interaction with you. She's an introvert, and not a touchy one! I'm gonna guess she especially likes hanging out with you when you are reading or working on the computer? That's my girl's favourite time to hang out with me. Quiet time. So I really wouldn't be concerned about not meeting her emotional needs. My two cents there.

As for training. Yes, sticks are crucial. I use a chopstick to target train Pop. I get her to touch the end of the chopstick with her beack, which usually just means biting it, and give her a click. I've used clicking to get her to come, step up, step off, gimme kiss, and touch. And it all started with the chopstick. I'm now working on targeting her into a bird backpack I made, so I can take her on walks without having to handle her to get her in the darn thing.

To get her used to my hands, I started by placing treats near my open hand. First the treat would just be very close to my open hand, resting on the counter. Then it would be touching my fingertips. Then it would sit on my fingers. Then onto my palm. Once we got there, I started using the chopstick with the command "touch". In hind site I should have used a different term since she usually bites it. But at any rate, once she would follow the chopstick around, I decided to try the command "touch" while offering her my thumb and forefinger, as in the picture (Sorry, I hope this is helping ) Luckily she knew what I wanted here and didn't bite. So she'd get a click and a treat. Eventually I started offering her my extended palm, and say "touch" and I'd give her a treat whenever her beak touched any part of my hand. Oddly enough, she was much more comfortable when my hand was upright facing towards her, than down on the counter. That little change in position made a big difference. Might be worth testing this with Pearl. Pop still doesn't like hands, and hates being handled, but she can step up (if treats are visible) very reliably, and doesn't attack my hands anymore. It's taken two years to get here, but she is progressing.

Hope this doesn't sound like me looking to brag. I honestly have never heard of another bird like mine, so I was really excited to share the techniques that have been working for her. I find this forum so helpful, and if I can help you develop an even stronger bond with Pearl then that would just fill my heart. So happy that you haven't given up on your Pearl. Way to go, and thank you for sharing. I'm rooting for you both!

 

[Scratchpaw]

@TwoGreenFids Thank you for the encouragement! It's so wonderful to hear that a bird like Pearl has made so much progress! Pearly loves to sit on my head when I'm watching TV or on my laptop. Right now she vigorously preens my head (I'm worried that she actually biting off my hair in between scraping my scalp... is that normal? She never used to be so rough.) But when I come home from school for breaks she's just content to take a nap up there and grind her beak.

In general she's pretty quiet. She only screams when she wants someone to come sit with her or if she gets spooked. But if I'm in the room, she's almost always quiet aside from some quiet chatter to get my attention. Since we can't handle her, we let her be on top of her cage during the day so she can fly around the room and get exercise as she pleases.

For training I use a chopstick as well. She knows the touch command, but it never seems to entice her enough to touch me even a little. Do you have advice on how to get her away from her cage so we can train away from "her territory?" I think that may be key in getting her to cooperate since she never leaves the room with her cage in it.

Your Popsicle seems like a feisty girl! She's so lovely though. I'm curious to know if your male ringneck is more even tempered. I get the feeling that female ringnecks are just more fussy in general...

 

[cassiesdad]

Your Popsicle seems like a feisty girl! She's so lovely though. I'm curious to know if your male ringneck is more even tempered. I get the feeling that female ringnecks are just more fussy in general...

We had the opportunity to adopt Titan's sister "Blaze" when they were 10 years old...but didn't do so...we were told she was a "wild child"...and the people couldn't control her...that wasn't the reason we didn't adopt her...we were afraid that the two would try and become mates...

 

[ZoeyFredrik]

My girl Joey can be a snuggle bug one minute and a hater of hands the next. I never intended for her to be a one person bird, but she is. Not really her fault, the members of my household are scared of her and she uses that.
When with me she prefers to sit on my head. Which I'm fine with as long as she doesn't try to bite. She never has bitten me from the head perch. She's flighted, so when we're together she tends to fly around a bit, land on me and so on. I try to reinforce this recall and work with her often to keep it up. A while back I neglected my training duties and paid for it with a uncooperative angry ringneck. I just tried to match my stubbornness to hers and we got through it.
Occasionally she'll have a time where she just hates hands. I watch her body language closely and I can see when this mood begins to strike. She will not step into a perch, for some reason she is terrified of them. So I figured out a solution, it may sound silly, but it works for us. I use a folded baby blanket and place it on my upturned palm like a plate. She flies to it and sits on her "platter". Then we go where we need to.
My advice, try different things to see what your ringneck responds to. If you notice something working, keep up with it and do it often.

 

[cassiesdad]

...it sounds like girl IRNs are sassy little things...I love it...

 

[TwoGreenFids]

Oh goodness yeah our male is a sweety and an absolute pacifist!!! It does seem to be a female issue

 

[cassiesdad]

I really do love the species. In the last 8 months, I've had the chance to adopt two different girl IRNs...and now, with Tweety, we don't have the space for another bird...

 

[fashionfobie]

What is so awesome about IRN is the gregarious and sweet temperament. They are very special birds! I also appreciate that they are so straight forward. My cockatoo is and was a constant bird in flux. Asiatics say it like it is. They are very clear about their body language and intentions.

 

[Buganjimo]

I have an IRN (unknown sex atm) but I've had her for a little over a year, and so she's about a year and a half.
I got her from a not so nice breeder, and she was fully parent raised, and the parents were about as wild as pet parrots can be. when I got her she was terrified to death of hands, but after some coaxing, she started taking treats from my fingers, and recently has started landing on my forearm if I have a treat in my hand.
you could try getting her to step up on your arm too, if the thing is her being scared of hands, at least at first.

 

[cassiesdad]

I have an IRN (unknown sex atm) but I've had her for a little over a year, and so she's about a year and a half.
I got her from a not so nice breeder, and she was fully parent raised, and the parents were about as wild as pet parrots can be. when I got her she was terrified to death of hands, but after some coaxing, she started taking treats from my fingers, and recently has started landing on my forearm if I have a treat in my hand.
you could try getting her to step up on your arm too, if the thing is her being scared of hands, at least at first.

...that is great progress for you both, so congratulations are in order!

It seems from observation and posts from other roadies that female IRNs can be more feisty than the boys. Is there a ring coming in yet?

 

[Buganjimo]

ha, I'd say she's pretty fiesty. either hates or loves my pens,,, cant tell which but she has a passion for stealing and trying to break them.
no ring yet. but she's still pretty young and dont get them till they're older. if she's male, she'll start developing a ring in about a molt or two.

 

[Monica]

I see this is a slightly older post that I haven't seen before but wanted to point some things out in case it's read again or others come across it.

To the OP... I see a few issues...

Problem is, I think her bluffing ended up reinforcing the biting behavior, despite my best efforts otherwise.

Ringnecks don't "bluff", per-say... or well, parrots in general do not "bluff". What is considered "bluffing" is actually a form of communication and it's a nice loud clear "NO!" or "LEAVE ME BE!" or perhaps "I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THIS!" without actually biting. When you ignore this behavior, it can lead to biting...

It's actually a big pet peeve of mine when people use the term bluffing... I just want to slap someone! Please, do more research on the behavior! And learn what it is she's trying to communicate with you!

Barbara's Force Free Animal Training Talk: Do Animals Bluff?

I touch trained her

Issue #2.... it's target training. The people who "coined" the term "touch training" just basically renamed 'target training' as a sales gimmick... then told the world it's secrets that the experts don't want you to know about! Well, duh! The experts don't use the term "touch training"!!!! It's target training! And if you do research on that, there is a *TON* of information from trainers for dogs, cats, birds, reptiles, exotic animals, etc!

(can you tell... it's another pet peeve??? )

Whenever she has to reach for the treat, she refuses to touch my hand in any way

Getting down to the nitty gritty part.... you may simply be asking too much too soon... or perhaps the reward is not of a high enough value.

click and give her the treat when she doesn't bite

Issue #3??? I realize this is a hard one... and I can't blame people for it... but "allowing" a bird to bite is reinforcing their need to bite. Basically, when they bite, it teaches them to continue biting.

The best way to break the habit is to not get bitten in the first place... which is easier said than done. In short, learn to read your bird's body language and back off before a bite occurs. Try to avoid putting your bird in a situation where they feel the need to bite. If you do get bit, remove them from you and take a moment to try and figure out how you can avoid that situation in the future.

I can't transport her away from her cage to get her used to new spaces or train her.

Issue #4.... do you need to take her away from her cage in order to train her? Lets put it this way.... any time you "must" remove a bird from their cage in order to train them, you are reinforcing their need to become defensive around their cage. You teach them that hands are bad around their cage. This basically results in cage aggression. In other words, you'll end up with a bird that is "fine once away from the cage". If she is most comfortable at her cage, don't remove her from her cage! Instead, train her at her cage! This can reduce cage aggression! This allows her to feel more comfortable, if you train right, thus less fear.

s so bizarre, she doesn't seem to know how to play with toys! No bird toy I've ever bought has been of interest to her unless she can see a treat in it...Her new favourite thing? Paper towel. We've set out rolls of it, and one roll of toilet paper, around the house to help satisfy her desire to shred.

Here's a couple of thoughts.... if she loves paper towels, have you ever considered stuffing her toys with paper towels? Maybe get some soft wood (i.e. a pine block with holes drilled into it, or slats, or yucca/balsa wood) and stuff it with paper towels?

Alternatively, since she already knows target training... why not teach her to play with toys through target training? It can seriously be as simple as rewarding them for accidentally touching a toy! Which can then be moved onto intentionally touching it... mouthing it... and maybe even biting and playing?

 

[Scratchpaw]

I wanted to thank everyone for their responses!

Pearly bird is very sweet with me for the most part these days. I can kiss her head and nuzzle her when she's in the mood and it seems to make her pretty happy. She's still not a fan of hands which isn't a huge surprise. She's started adventuring out of her room to find me or someone else in one of our other rooms. She just wants to hang out. She's even started hanging out on my head while I'm doing my college courses remotely. Who knew she would be so interested in botany?

Pearl is as stubborn as ever when it comes to toys. It's a foraging toy or nothing! Such a funny bird. When I'm not around she'll just come sit on my computer if it's open. I have to be careful that she doesn't bite at the plastic.

I hope everyone's birdies are doing well. Pearl says hello (licking the computer screen currently).