Some changes...

[Hankmacaw]

@Shezbug You said that you have been bitten several times. I'm sorry. Just remember what I told you about successful bites being self perpetuating and they bring on more and more intense bites.

Try very hard not to get bitten and not to allow Burt to have a successful bite. It works.

The other thing I would recommend is to teach him what "NO" means. Burt has to have boundaries. He must learn that if you are to have a successful relationship.

I know you think that Sarah and I are some sort of different creatures, because we make our macaws behave - but we both learned that out of necessity. We both have had macaws that a human just couldn't live with unless the bird learned boundaries.

 

[soundsfun]

@Shezbug I'm just popping in to say you are an amazing parront and I'm sure it wasn't easy to share this. It sounds quite traumatic, what's gone on for you and Bert this last while. You have helped so many of us on AA (myself included), it's clear that you know parrots well and are very reasoned and informed about whatever decisions you make. Sending you healing vibes

 

[Shezbug]

I'm so sorry this is happening. If you feel a clip could help save you even a few attacks then I don't see the harm. He's already fledged & like @ Toy said, just try a light trim til his next moult & see how y'all both do.

I feel like you might drag your feet to protect yourself, but what if he goes after your son or mom? Even without a bite that could cause a ton of headaches that you could do without. I know you won't make the decision to trim lightly, but if you do it won't make you want kind of monster either. Maybe it'll give you time to learn those signs and come up with new ways to deflect him until this passes.

Maybe @Macawnutz & @Hankmacaw @macawpower58 might have some helpful suggestions.

I do not feel a clip will help at all to be honest and I would hate myself for it so it will be the very very last resort.
I have told both my son and mum not to enter my room if the door is closed as I will have Burt out and I do not trust he will be ok with them so I do not need to worry about that part.
I actually already PM'd Sarah (like I always do when I am unsure) and have had some input from ML and Becky too Thank you!
I am learning what to look out for and learning to bring the mood back down to calm or redirect the focus.

 

[Shezbug]

You are strong Shez, and have a great support system in this forum, you'll muddle your way through this.
I hope others can also learn as you do so.
Most long time members here may remember I had the same problem years ago with Chaos.
It was a not a time I'd wish on anyone.

I cannot remember if Burt shares a room with any of your other birds or not.
Chaos used to share the main room with my zon and too.
His anger and attacks never really extended to them, but his extreme cage territorialism made it dangerous for me to leave them in the same space as he would go after any bird daring to climb or land on the cage.

Thank you Becky! That means a lot coming from you I remember reading your story with Chaos and hoping with all my heart that I did not get to experience the same thing, I do not think Burt will manage to match Chaos's level- he sounds like a real beautiful handful.
No he doesn't share a room with other birds and I will keep him away from the budgie while he is being a bit cranky- he is not interested in the budgie but always wants the pegs off his cage. Safer to keep him away at this point for sure. He greeted me very calmly and sweetly this morning so fingers crossed his frustrations are settling some.

 

[April]

He greeted me very calmly and sweetly this morning so fingers crossed his frustrations are settling some.

I hope that will continue to be the case. Fingers crossed!

 

[Shezbug]

Frankly I'm not certain if taking away his flight will improve things or not. I realize you are trying your best to sort things through with Burt and hope that whatever you choose to do will help.

I really believe it will make him crankier and I am not comfortable really even thinking about it to be honest.

 

[Shezbug]

I don't think she plans to take away his flight, only slow him down a little to give herself a chance to evade his attacks. He'd still be able to fly but would have to work harder to get to her.

@Shezbug What about time-outs in that big, beautiful cage he's never in? I'm sure he'd get used to it soon enough with some fun branches to shred to distract him.
And until then, let me recommend these babies! https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B081P97C27?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
Puffin broke my lithe pair, but these are even better. You can still hear, but it takes the edge off so you don't give in so easy.

I really do not plan to cut any feathers at all- it will seriously be the very last thing I consider and it will only be considered if I am completely defeated and fail... it is right up there with considering rehoming- not words that are in my vocabulary when it comes to Burt.
I could listen to Burt bell ringing or screaming all day! The only time Burt's noise gets to me is when he sounds off in my ear lol. Them ear muffs could come in handy for the budgie though- I struggle with his noise and often need to vacate the room when he is happily chatting away.

 

[Shezbug]

@Shezbug You said that you have been bitten several times. I'm sorry. Just remember what I told you about successful bites being self perpetuating and they bring on more and more intense bites.

Try very hard not to get bitten and not to allow Burt to have a successful bite. It works.

The other thing I would recommend is to teach him what "NO" means. Burt has to have boundaries. He must learn that if you are to have a successful relationship.

I know you think that Sarah and I are some sort of different creatures, because we make our macaws behave - but we both learned that out of necessity. We both have had macaws that a human just couldn't live with unless the bird learned boundaries.

This biting causing more biting was my biggest worry, made me desperate to stop and change the situation asap- and I saw how each bite he got in encouraged and increased the intensity of the mood and next bite.
We made it through yesterday with no major carry ons and no bites or pinches- there was a few close calls where he started to wind up but thankfully we avoided all serious mood changes.
He knows what NO means and did used to listen- he also knows what "don't do it" and "get out of it" means but nothing I said or asked from him was working which was honestly a brand new thing and quite a slap in the head for me, me telling him to behave and correcting him was ramping him up and it was like he was pushing to show me I could not tell him what to do and if I did he did not care so I figured the best thing was to leave him caged while he showed such anger or moodiness towards me like he was.
I ask you and Sarah whenever I have any issues greatly concerning me because I know you two have lived it done it learned it and if you haven't you'll straight out say and offer your thoughts and opinions- you are both always so supportive and helpful and help keep my anxiety from blowing up- I have a lot of respect for the experience and knowledge you both hold and willingly share. Thank you so much for everything you have helped me with over the last few years

 

[Shezbug]

To those of you who commented here in this thread and I did not reply personally to you, I thank you for your support and well wishes, it means a lot to me that you all have taken an interest and shown support.

 

[Hankmacaw]

That's what you need to do. Give him your meanest face, tell him no forcefully and dump him in his cage. It may not work like magic, but it will get through to him.

 

[Sparkles99]

I'm sorry to hear this. It's shocking when they fly at your face. I don't have a macaw, as you know. But Aurelius did this twice to me as a clipped baby. Frosting gets upset when he flies out of his cage, because I don't think he does it on purpose. Inevitably, it results in him having a panic attack on the curtain rod & swooping back & forth angrily dive bombing me. He may be a budgie, but it's intimidating. I duck as needed. I can't imagine this with a macaw.

 

[Macawnutz]

Well... Sorry... we have been without power all day long. I got a whole lot of nothing done today.

I am going to take the blame for using the word "clip". I said it to her by PM and said it could be used as a last resort. You have to remember Shez that I have got a lot of messages over the years like this and I will present every option possible to prevent rehoming. Too often people panic in three days time and the bird is gone without a trace. Everyone has a different amount of patience when you are being hunted like an animal.

You got this. It's not easy but you will learn his new rules and figure out a new routine.

 

[Shezbug]

Well... Sorry... we have been without power all day long. I got a whole lot of nothing done today.

I am going to take the blame for using the word "clip". I said it to her by PM and said it could be used as a last resort. You have to remember Shez that I have got a lot of messages over the years like this and I will present every option possible to prevent rehoming. Too often people panic in three days time and the bird is gone without a trace. Everyone has a different amount of patience when you are being hunted like an animal.

You got this. It's not easy but you will learn his new rules and figure out a new routine.

Getting there cos I am a fast learner lol! He seems to be realizing he prefers my company to none at all and that I am removing my company or attention when he is heightened- I did put him away earlier than I would have liked to this morning because he started getting badly excited and thought he might just try to lash out a little- grabbed my finger and started to squeeze real good, he backed off when I said not to bite me and then quickly lashed out and pinched my belly and bit my clothes instead so I returned him to the cage. He settled down very soon after a little tantrum in the cage and I have been back in to chat with him and give cheek rubs through the bars. He is working out I am not interacting with him when he is wound or winding up and I am removing myself from his excitement. He is making happy sounds right now which is so much nicer than the angry frustrated sounds.

 

[ems08]

This stage of your relationship sounds so traumatic and stressful for both of you. It's reassuring to me how many people there are here with judgement free advice but also reconfirms that I am *not* a big bird person (conure/quaker size is as big as I go!), so I really appreciate you sharing more than the pretty pictures.

 

[Shezbug]

Well... Sorry... we have been without power all day long. I got a whole lot of nothing done today.

I am going to take the blame for using the word "clip". I said it to her by PM and said it could be used as a last resort. You have to remember Shez that I have got a lot of messages over the years like this and I will present every option possible to prevent rehoming. Too often people panic in three days time and the bird is gone without a trace. Everyone has a different amount of patience when you are being hunted like an animal.

You got this. It's not easy but you will learn his new rules and figure out a new routine.

I did tell you I am stubborn yeah? I am not going to be one of them others that sends you a PM with this issue then drops off the face of the earth cos I rehomed- I promise you that.
I won't be rehoming because I feel Burt belongs with me, I made a commitment to love and care for him as best I could which I can not do if he lives elsewhere, I will be problem solving and learning coping techniques- I am confident I can get through this especially knowing I have some help from you guys Poor Burt is stuck with me!

 

[Momof3litt]

I have no macaw advice, only sympathy for any parent of any species of teenager. I have a newly teenage human in my home and I can only imagine how much more horrifying life would be if she could fly and bite . Hang in there, you'll get through this.

 

[Shezbug]

This stage of your relationship sounds so traumatic and stressful for both of you. It's reassuring to me how many people there are here with judgement free advice but also reconfirms that I am *not* a big bird person (conure/quaker size is as big as I go!), so I really appreciate you sharing more than the pretty pictures.

Thank you, I appreciate knowing that showing the less attractive side has made it real for some, I think it is important to share this sort of stuff for others to benefit from, if it saves one macaw from being taken home by the wrong people then it has all been worth sharing the less pleasant side of loving my big brat.
I can honestly confirm that having a macaw is so much more than just the pretty pictures lol. Maybe we need to make a thread showing all the non pretty sides of macaw ownership... lol I can just imagine some of the first pictures our members could post- would look very different than what the youtubers show that is for sure.

 

[macawpower58]

During Chaos's worst times, any aggression or forceful behavior on my part escalated his aggression and attacks 10-fold. I think discipline, boundaries, whatever you call it, it works in situations where it's rebellious growing pains, a young bird testing boundaries.

In Chaos's (and maybe Burts) cases, I don't believe it's willful disobedience we're seeing. I feel it's a huge flare of nature driven emotions that the bird is just to inexperienced to handle. The internal drives are overriding every normal thought and emotion the bird knows. I swear Chaos all those years ago had no control what so ever. He'd have killed me if physically possible, then wander what had happened. He'd come for some loving, then strike so hard and fast neither of us were ready for it. He'd then act so stressed out, I really believe he had no control.

IMO you should be careful with force right now. I (I of course could be wrong) don't think it's what he needs.
I backed off of all confrontation. Only if necessity demanded it, did I force Chaos to do anything back then.

Chaos's outbreaks are different these days.
He still is testy, still can and will strike, but it's not the unbridled behavior I saw in the beginning.
He has grown enough to stop and think. He couldn't or wouldn't back when things went so bad years ago.
I can now say no....and he'll usually stop what he's doing.

IMO you need to really watch and study him, and then decide if this is just growing pains, or something more that Burt really can't handle right now. Then decide on your course of action.

 

[camelotshadow]

I still think Burt may be associating you with putting him in his cage & then leaving him. He then hears Birdy & you tending to him.
Before Birdy did you leave him in his cage for sometime during the day? Has anything changed now that you need to spend time
tending to Birdies needs?

He might be Mr Cranky pants because of the hormones kicking in but I still feel he is associating Birdy whom I am sure he can hear with him being caged & taking you away even if its not the main cause of his frustration.

It's good for you to keep the family away when he is out. Less chance of them getting hurt & less need for possible bad encounters which need to be kept to a minimum. Just you & him sort of focuses the dynamics & takes less variables out of the equation.

Do your best even if it means you always have a t stick on your hand or real close by to intercept in case of fly by.
He is going to have to relearn & earn hand privilege's. You may need to takes some steps back in order to go forward.
Got to eliminate situations where he can bite but you kow that. Its sometimes harder than it seems but you have to be strong now
& take some steps back from handling him or changing the way you handle him in order to keep this time period as neutral as possible
until it runs it course.

Well, that's my 5 cents. I'm not brave enough for a macaw...

 

[Laurie]

Getting there cos I am a fast learner lol! He seems to be realizing he prefers my company to none at all and that I am removing my company or attention when he is heightened- I did put him away earlier than I would have liked to this morning because he started getting badly excited and thought he might just try to lash out a little- grabbed my finger and started to squeeze real good, he backed off when I said not to bite me and then quickly lashed out and pinched my belly and bit my clothes instead so I returned him to the cage. He settled down very soon after a little tantrum in the cage and I have been back in to chat with him and give cheek rubs through the bars. He is working out I am not interacting with him when he is wound or winding up and I am removing myself from his excitement. He is making happy sounds right now which is so much nicer than the angry frustrated sounds.

I never had a macaw but this sounds exactly spot on to me. This is how I deal with my caiques. If they treat you differently you have to adjust because if you don't change it won't get better. Taking action and making changes immediately as you have done it perfect. It's what you need to do. So many people don't know or can't adapt fast enough and it makes the whole process take longer and many people give up before they succeed.

I am sure you and Burt will work it out and be better than ever. Best wishes.

One of my crazy little fluff of feathers bit me last week and then two days later he almost got me again and this was on top of all his usual threats when I get near his cage. Turns out his misses was about to lay eggs (the timing of which was a totally shock to me), yet I should have known because this is exactly how he acts right before she lays eggs. He is fully mature (had him almost 9 years) and I should know by now what it all means but it was still a surprise.

Your in good company and I know you will get great advice.