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Snuggles has liver disease

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Snuggles Mom

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Hello! I am Snuggles Mom. He is an 11 year old African Gray, male, and about 2-3 months ago he started to slowly interject a squawk in with his whistling, mimicing, and talking. Now he is 100% squawking, no more do I hear any of his beautiful whistling (he would make up his own songs), no more mimicing every sound he hears, no more talking (never a great talker, just words), nothing. I took him to an avian vet and she diagnosed him with liver disease, difinitely beyond the medium range but in the definite liver disease stage. She put him on a supplement with milk thistle and he has been taking it the last month. His diet was one of Zupreem pellets which he loves and some regular birdseed including some sunflower and nuts, almonds, peanuts, walnuts. He would usually get two walnuts and 2 almonds and sometimes a couple of peanuts a day. But his main diet was the Zupreem pellets. He has become more introverted like a baby and no aggression at all, which he would be sometimes if he didn't like something. Is the loss of his mimicing and talking a result of the liver disease. The vet never really said it was or wasn't, but I thought someone who has an Afrcian Grey might have experienced this as well. Any info in this area would be helpful. Also any knowledge on whether this is a short term condition and how long he may live with this condition.
Thanks, Snuggles Mom
 

Katana

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It really all depends on how far along the liver disease has progressed. Sometimes milk thistle/other natural supplements and taking out nuts/seeds in the diet can help to reverse some or most of the damage. Unfortunately most birds with liver disease at the treatable stages will need a long term recovery period. Like I said, it all depends on how much damage there is once it has been diagnosed. I hope your Snuggles does well on the milk thistle and will get better in time.
 

Billie Faye

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Here is another site to help with understanding of it and great info in helping to regenerate the liver...
HolisticBird and HolisticBirds
This ARTICLE is FULL of information on how to correct the condition....if caught soon enough...:hug8::heart:
 

Snuggles Mom

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Thanks so much. I am learning much on liver disease and have ordered some products and plan to take Snuggles back in a couple of weeks to check to see if the Milk Thistle/Chrounulac that the vet gave me is working.
 

Kolkri

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I had a liver transplant so know a little bit about liver issues. Exercise is a good thing and can help reverse some of the damage. But it well take more then a couple weeks to be able to see any results from the changes you are planning to make.
Only thing I had to add to what has already been said.
 

Snuggles Mom

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Snuggles loves the Zupreem small/medium pellets and the large as well. Do any of you recommend these? He has been eating them since I got him at 6 months of age. Is there a better pellet food I should try out on him. I have tried others from the retail stores and he never seems to like anything but the Zupreem.
 

Kolkri

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Are you feeding the fruit ones? I think the brown ones have less additives. Even better the more freash foods you can feed him would be best with very few pellets maybe a table spood a day...
 

Snuggles Mom

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Yes, he loves the fruit ones. He doesn't seem to care for the uncolored ones. I do give him fresh veggies and fruits, but probably not as much as he needs. I have been giving him more since he was diagnosed with the liver disease.
 

Billie Faye

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I'm not one to feed pellets and with a bird that has Liver problems, I wouldn't feed pellets PERIOD!
They just don't have the TOTAL foods needed to help correct the liver problems and could be adding to the problem....FRESH/LIVE Foods is really the way to help your bird...JMHO:hug8:
 

Snuggles Mom

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Thanks Billie Faye. You are the first that has suggested no pellets at all. I am soaking all this in and have already ordered some Herb Salad from Twin Beaks and am going the sprouts as well along with fresh veggies and fruits. Any more suggestion? How are you feeding your birds? What kind do you have?
 

patagonian

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But what do you do if your bird doens't eat fresh veggies and they just sit in cage and I have to later throw them out!!
 

Billie Faye

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Chad, you have to play with the fresh foods in front of them and make like it is the BIGGEST deal going and NOT letting them have any for the first few times (eating it in front of them also helps) I have Macaws, Amazons, Too's, Myers, Sennies, Quakers, African Gray at this point...but over the last 20 some odd years you can add to that Tiels, Parrotlets, Keets, IRN's, Bourke's, Mustache, Princess of Wales, Kakariki, Love Birds, Conures of all different types, Lorrie....
Most came to me NEVER having eaten FRESH / LIVE foods and within days to two weeks (except for Woo Woo, my first Gray who took 1 year to eat fresh foods)...I feed my in the morning and I have done this since the early 90's....It really isn't that hard...if a bird comes to me as a seed only eater...that's OK, I put this OVER their seed so they have to go through it to get to the seed...I use herbs/spices to encourage their taste buds (they only have around 300 IF I remember right) BUT Cinn. /Cayenne/Ginger/Oregano are great to use to encourage them to try foods...
I use cooked Rice/Quinoa as a base and build on that for the wet foods....and I do the "kitchen sink" with foods/flowers when in season...
Cooking veggies KILLS them and leaches out the vitamins....so that is why the LIVE /FRESH veggies....Tomatoes are better cooked...bring out the good stuff but my birds love fresh tomatoes also...
This gives you an idea of how I cut the veggies...birds will only take 3 to 4 bites at the most out of something an go on to something else...so everything I do is about thumbnail size for ALL my birds....
Also this is my birdy bread that they get at night....
If you read the site I posted you will understand why NOT to feed pellets...
So your bird doesn't eat all that you put out there in fresh foods! NO big deal...you put it out EVERY SINGLE DAY! and I will guarantee you they will begin to eat it...and look forward to it! Sprouts are great! FRESH FLax seeds GROUND is put over the top of the fresh stuff for the Omega's...I also scrape in Cuttle bone....I feed cut up Chicken breast a couple times of the month...and Sweet potatoes in their birdie breads ...which is also made with any left over fresh foods from the morning feeding...
Parsley was bitten by her parents while still in the nest and her beak was torn off and toes bitten off...she is the sweetest thing!:hug8:
Ask ?'s FREAH Dandelions are GREAT for the birds to eat and help with liver also
:hug8:
Examples are below of what it looks like:
 

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Katana

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Billie Faye, I too had a bird with liver issues. I feed pellets (plain Tropican pellets by Hagen), fruit and vegetables; an all round balanced parrot diet. Anyhow during my whole ordeal my avian vet never suggested/said to eliminate pellets as they could potentially make the problem worse. So this information is a surprise to me. Where did you lean this info on pellets and liver disease? It's strange that an avian vet would not let us know this info. Not trying to say you're wrong or anything like that; I just want to be able to learn more.
 

Billie Faye

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This is just a "small excerpt" from the article...You have READ THE WHOLE article to get the understanding of WHY!

"The typical allopathic veterinary diet for fatty liver disease is a low-fat, pelleted diet with small amounts of fresh fruits and vegetables. Hopefully those who read this article know that such a diet may not help some birds with FLD because pellets provide unsatisfactory nutrition for most bird species. Also, many birds become obese on low fat, low protein pellets because carbohydrates are substituted for the fat and protein calories. As we have learned there are several reasons that this type of nutrition is not ideal:
  • carbohydrates not immediately used for energy are stored.
  • carbohydrates are not an essential nutrient insofar as glucose needed by the body for energy can be obtained from fats and proteins.
  • the source of macronutrients in pellets is usually corn, other grains, and soy beans. These components are not a part of the natural diet of many bird species. They are components of livestock feed intended to fatten livestock for market. Foods alien to a species can contain chemical components and proteins to which the body has not adapted in its evolutionary process. These foods can produce an allergic response that contributes to obesity.
What should be fed instead?
Instead of a pellet diet with small amounts of fruits and vegetables, the diet should consist mainly of fruits and vegetables with limited amounts of pellets. Foods to focus on are those that will help the liver detoxify." ( as I stated before, I don't feed pellets PERIOD)
HolisticBird and HolisticBirds
and because of the TYPE of pellets she is feeding (
Food - additives such as preservatives, dyes, flavorings and scents; pesticide contamination, aflatoxins and molds, allergens, natural plant toxins, spoiled fats, spoiled food, hormones, excess or unbalanced vitamins and minerals. Molds that produce aflatoxins are common in food such as corn and peanuts. A large or sustained load of aflatoxins will damage the liver.) Most of these are in Pellets.....:hug8:
 

hawkygal

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I would try doing a phone consult with www.thebirdclinic.com
I have found them to be very helpful over the phone. Nimitz if VERY knowledgable. They often do consults for people who live in other areas of the country and might not have access to a good avian vet. He might be able to offer some good advice and answer your questions. Never hurts to get a second opinion. ;)

I'm not associated with them except that they have given me great advice in the past.
 
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