Urgent Sick (?) 3 week old baby tiel

[nancyaap]

My baby cockatiel is 3 1/2 weeks old and as of this morning fully feathered. When we are with her, she is active and strong, and easily jumps up - whether it be out of her box or up onto my shoe. She loves cuddling and is very attached to us. The problem is that when she is at rest, her head goes DOWN, resting it on the wall of her box or on us. She sleeps with her neck curved and head down all the way. Also, there are times when her eyes are half-closed, even though she is awake. I have successfully hand-raised many birds, including sparrows, doves and a cockatiel and I feel that this posture is very worrisome.

Also, her crop is rarely empty and takes a long time to go down. At this age, I dare not feed the baby more than 7 ml, and even that's pushing it. Twice, I only fed her twice (instead of three times) because the crop simply didn't go down. Of course, she is super ready to eat any time she thinks she might be fed. She hasn't gained any weight since I got her 9 days ago, weighing in at about 51 grams each morning. Oh, yeah – her bowel movements are often and fine.

I brought her to a vet, who is studying to be a bird expert. She is the only bird vet in the area. She has put my baby tiel on Nystatin before each meal. She has also put her on a course of antibiotics. All this is "just in case." But she feels that the real problem is neurological. She feels that there is some swelling on the back of her neck at the base of her neck. This may also explain, the vet feels, why the food is not moving on as it should.

Any suggestions? comments? We are so hoping for the best - she is so cute and we so much adore her!!!!

Nancy and Smoggy

 

[Anne & Gang]

sorry to hear your b aby is ill...hopefully someone will come on with some advice..@srtiels @Monica

 

[GuineaPigster]

Welcome to AA!!
I don't know much about tiels, but symptoms can generally be the same for all birds.
Birds should not droop their heads when sleeping or sitting.
Do you mean she places her head on her back, or just droops it forward?
The fact that she is so young and hasn't gained weight for more than a week is very weird. It does indicate something is wrong.
Do you feel this ''lump''?
Is she living in a box or a cage?

 

[roxynoodle]

All I can offer is and best wishes.

 

[nancyaap]

Thank you - Anne, Pigster and Roxy.
She droops her head forward (when at rest). I keep her in a small box, so it will be similar to a nesting box. But she is happiest when cuddling with us.
And no, I don't feel a lump.
What gives me some hope is that she doesn't seem to be going downhill. From past experience, when somethning is wrong with a baby, the situation usually goes down really fast.
I'm so confused!
I'll let people know what happens. I hope somebody who understands these symptoms will happen by .....

Nancy and Smoggy

 

[Anne & Gang]

@allen

 

[Anne & Gang]

I found this on the internet..it might be helpful..
I will not start hand feeding until the chicks crops are empty from the foods that mom and dad have fed. Once the crops are empty its time to begin hand feeding. I prepare the formula according to the directions on the container and use a thermometer to make sure the formula is 104 degrees before I start feeding. I use a syringe for feeding. I begin by placing the baby on the table in front of me, I place the tip of the syringe into the left side of the chicks mouth with the tip pointed toward the right side of the chicks mouth. Carefully with a slow even pressure on the syringe plunger begin feeding the formula. You want the formula to be fed slowly so the formula goes down into the chicks crop and not the windpipe. The amount of formula depends on the age, weight and how long it takes the chicks crop to empty between feedings. If you watch your chicks crop you will see it filling as you feed, you will not want to fill the crop so the food comes up into the chicks neck nor to the point that the crop feels over expanded. A good rule of thumb here is try a little at a time until you determine what is enough. You can always feed more, its hard to take out formula that has been over fed. Most breeders have a hand feeding schedule the schedule I use is as follows:

• 1-3 weeks- 7:00 am, 11:00 am, 3:00 pm, 7:00 pm, 11:00 pm
• 4 weeks- 7:00 am, 12:30 pm, 5:30 pm, 10:30 pm
• 5 weeks- 7:00 am, 3:00 pm, 10:00pm
• 6-7 weeks- 7:00 am, 10:00 pm
• 8 weeks- 10:00 pm

As the chicks begin to feather I place them into a "weaning cage", this is a cage with perches positioned low in the cage so the chicks can reach them easily, wide variety of foods and seeds and of course fresh water are placed within easy reach. As the chicks get older I add more perches at higher positions to encourage them to fly and exercise their wings. The hand feeding schedule I use hopefully will gently encourage the chicks to start eating on their own without to many problems. It is very important to check your chicks weight during the hand feeding and weaning process. If you notice you babies not gaining weight or loosing to much weight you may need to back track and offer formula more often.

When attempting its first feed, you can try to drip a drop of formula onto the side of the baby bird’s beak; it will usually respond to the warmth and suck it in. If you lack a syringe, use a spoon with the sides curved upward. Another trick is to give a gentle “pinch” just like the parent grasping the baby bird’s beak. A baby usually responds by opening its beak, allowing you to slowly feed a small amount of food until it gets the idea to swallow. The chick will begin to vigorously pump its head up and down (at times almost too fast for the human eye!) hungrily taking in the formula.

Be careful not to feed too quickly or to overfeed, which can cause a chick to aspirate the food back down its windpipe. If you need to re-warm formula during feedings, either prepare a new batch, or (if the manufacturer’s instructions allow) heat a small glass of hot water and place the container of formula within it to keep it warm.

It is always better to feed too loose a formula and feed more often until you and the baby can learn a schedule together. If fed too thick, a heavier formula can impact the crop. After feeds, clean the beak, face or other soiled feathers with a clean cloth or tissue. Dry, and return the baby bird to its warm environment immediately so it can digest its food. Sterilize all utensils and syringes in a good disinfectant, which is obtainable at a local animal hospital or hospital supplier.

If a baby bird’s crop fills with air, massage is the correct treatment if you are able to gently burp the air out without aspirating the food up at the same time and risk the food going back down the windpipe. Frequent massages might be required. Air in the crop, however, is often a sign of further problems. If it does not resolve quickly, becomes worse or is accompanied by other problems, a veterinarian specializing in avian medicine should be sought.

 

[GuineaPigster]

Anne has given excellent advice. Keep us posted. Rooting for your little one!

 

[nancyaap]

Thanks, Anne. I saw that site. But it takes so long for the crop to empty (which it never actually does totally) that there's no way I could feed her 4 times a day. Also, many other sites suggest no more than 3 times. Thanks for everyone's encouragement!

 

[crystaljam]

I used to pull at that age, and would feed 4 times a day.

For her crop to not really be emptying is of concern.

How long has she been on antibiotics for? If only a day, it will take a few days for it to kick in. Otherwise, is there an avian vet in the area who is proficient in the area who can assist? Not gaining weight + crop not emptying is likely a bacterial infection. We used to use Baytril for bacteria infections.

I'm really concerned about the lack of growth - this can cause so many other issues down the line healthwise for your chick.

Of course, we're just people on the interweb, and our advise can be taken lightly - an experienced vet is your best bet, especially when it comes to a baby.

I hope you are able to help her recover!

 

[GuineaPigster]

I used to pull at that age, and would feed 4 times a day.

For her crop to not really be emptying is of concern.

How long has she been on antibiotics for? If only a day, it will take a few days for it to kick in. Otherwise, is there an avian vet in the area who is proficient in the area who can assist? Not gaining weight + crop not emptying is likely a bacterial infection. We used to use Baytril for bacteria infections.

I'm really concerned about the lack of growth - this can cause so many other issues down the line healthwise for your chick.

Of course, we're just people on the interweb, and our advise can be taken lightly - an experienced vet is your best bet, especially when it comes to a baby.

I hope you are able to help her recover!

I don't know if there is no other avian vet or what, but a vet would be your best bet, rather than a student.

 

[Bailey]

Sounds like slow crop to me. Also, chicks should be fed 10% of their body weight. This baby should be getting 5.1 cc of formula.

 

[nancyaap]

Update: I was given 4 days worth of antibiotics, and just finished it today.

The crop never actually empties, no matter how long I wait. But if it was a matter of a sour crop, I am sure she wouldn't be with me anymore. I have been giving her Nystatin with each meal to make sure that it doesn't develop. I read somewhere that Nystatin doesn't do any damage.

She still weighs in at 51-52 grams after 8-10 hours. Bjknight - I saw your suggestion of her 10% of her body weight, and have seen that other places on the web. I have been trying to give her 7-8 ml hoping she would grow, fearing that she wasn't getting enough nutrition. Now I will tone down to 5.1 ml.

Together with all this: She is strong, feisty, happy, sweet and cuddly. Her feathers have come in beautifully, smooth and full. She does a great job of cleaning them. She has many bowel movements, so at least that part of her system is working at full pace. Also, I don't notice her putting her head down anymore.

Maybe she will be the start of a new breed - a mini tiel??

My bird vet is away for a course. I will try to find out where there might be a vet farther away.

Thanks,everyone!

 

[GuineaPigster]

Do you know when she gets back?

 

[nancyaap]

Even though she has been happy and even starting to fly a bit (lifted herself an inch off the table flapping while I fed her, or gliding instead of falling off of a surface), after a week that my baby didn't gain even one gram and her crop was still not totally emptying, I wanted to talk again to the vet, but she is out of the country for another week. I discovered that a new bird vet moved into the area a month ago, so I went to him last night. He said that her problem seems to be anatomical one, not allowing all the food to pass from the crop to the gizzard. He gave her 2 drops of something to "get it moving on down the line", then fed her 15 minutes later. He said to do that every meal for 3 days then call him. I was horrified to wake up this morning and find her "on her way out". She was terribly weak, head all the way down, eyes closed - and there STILL was food in her crop. She had ost 7 grams - that is at the age of 4 weeks, she weighed 43 grams. I was a mess, dispensed with the medicine and let her eat. (Luckily, she still wanted to.) Slowly throughout the day, she is getting stronger. At first, she made weak attempts to preen her feathers, and would fall over. So sad!! Then, she started propping herself up with her opposing wing so she wouldn't fall down. Smart little cutie!

So, I don't know what will happen. She is so motivated to live!

 

[GuineaPigster]

So scary.
Are you comfortable giving me your state? I can help you find a bird vet.
Kepp me posted.

 

[nancyaap]

Hi GuineaPigster -
Sorry - I live in Israel, so your best of intentions won't work. But thanks for caring and trying ......
Nancy and Smoggy

 

[Anne & Gang]

how is the little one faring?