Should I go through with getting this Macaw.

[Lynnl1222]

Note this may be a long story but I want to make sure I’m doing the right thing for this bird and myself.

I’ve been looking into getting a Macaw for awhile now. My best friend of 10 years got her blue and gold macaw 3 years ago. I’ve been with her from the very start with her bird. Even watched the macaw for over a week while my friend had to go out of the country.
My experience with a macaw is only through my friend. I have never owned one myself. However I do have a Sun Conure.
But I have fallen in love with the breed and have saved up my money over the past couple years to get one.
I’ve just recently had the opportunity to meet with a breeder and see one of his macaws he has for sale. However the experience didn’t go as expected.
From the first phone call to set up an appointment to meet he seemed very off. He lectured me the first phone call about macaws. Which I understand he may get a lot of phone calls from people inquiring about his birds. However whenever I shared the experience I had he sounded like I was beneath him and his knowledge. Almost anything I said he seemed to correct me on. Which then made me question myself. But for some reason he decided to have me come over and meet his 1 year old blue and gold macaw. When I first got there he informed me this blue and gold macaw is named Bennie. He also informed me that he was not looking into actually selling this one but due to certain circumstances he has to.
Bennie is very sweet but he sometimes seems like he’s afraid of hands. The man said he hasn’t had much to do with him over the past couple months due to unknown reasons.
Whenever I or the breeder would go to pet Bennie he would snap at our hands (not hard though)
The breeder said to not back down and to continue to pet him and just to let him bite me. I felt uncomfortable because it seemed like I was doing something Bennie did not want me doing. I want my bird to trust me and not be scared.
The breeder let me have some alone time with the bird and I didn’t continue to force anything. I just sat and talked to him.
Bennie also does not know how to step up. The breeder said he’s working with him but each time you try Bennie with snap at your hand.
Another troubling thing is Bennie does not want to come out of his cage once he’s there.
The breeder showed me where he has to forcefully pick him up and bring him out of the cage.
To me it seemed like everything about the situation was forceful and hard on the bird.
After I left and got home the breeder called and gave me pros and cons about our visit. He didn’t like the way that I didn’t continue to pet Bennie or that I would shy away when he would go to bite me.
He also told me the cage must go with Bennie even though it’s small. He also wants the name to stay Bennie.
He wants me to come back and visit with the macaw but I’m unsure.
My heart really breaks for the macaw but I’m unsure if I should go through with getting it. I’m worried this macaw will never truly be mine. It sounds like the breeder plans on keeping in touch.
Is this normal behavior for a breeder? Is this normal for macaw? Would the situation change if it was in a more loving home? I really need some good advice on where I should go from here and what I should expect.

 

[Ali]

Welcome to the forum!

@Macawnutz @macawpower58 @Hankmacaw @Shezbug

I hope somebody can help you. This bird sounds like it needs a loving home like yours. I have tagged a few macaw people, so hopefully they'll give you some better insight!

Ali

 

[Ali]

Also, with time, this sounds like it could be a lovely bird. All I am unsure on is the breeder. Did he have other birds? Did you see anymore or was it just the one that he had?

 

[Zara]

Welcome to the Avenue Megan

He also told me the cage must go with Bennie even though it’s small.

Take the cage, then donate it to a shelter or sell it/give it away.

It sounds like the breeder plans on keeping in touch.

No. If he sells you the bird, it is a business transaction (As cold as that sounds). Complete cut off for him and Bennie - this is not a friend you are helping out temporarily. It could be confusing or stressful for Bennie to see this person enter and leave his life, and that is not fair.

He also wants the name to stay Bennie.

He does not get to decide. Let the bird decide. If he has learned his name, it would be better to keep it or change it to something super similar.

I´ll leave the rest of your species specific and behavioural questions for the members of the board with larger birds

 

[MiniMacaw]

This “breeder” sucks plain and simple. Forcing a macaw to do anything (other than medical treatments for their health) is a recipe for distrust.
Only you know if this macaw is yours. But it does sound like he would benefit from a better place to call home. Each macaw is an individual and will blossom with care and love. It just looks different for each and may take years to see real progress. My macaw was horribly abused and he still has fear and trauma related issues, but he’s mine and I wouldn’t change him for the world.
Trust is earned and it sounds like the one you met has not been given a reason to trust people yet. I think given time and lots of patience any macaw can learn to feel safe.
That said, if you do decide to take him it’s your choice whether or not the “breeder” gets to maintain contact. He ceases to have a say, much as he may try. I have a really low threshold for bad breeders after dealing with my macaws, so I don’t mean to sound too harsh, but once that macaw isn’t his anymore, legally and ethically it’s all up to you.

 

[Hankmacaw]

First - no it's not normal for any person to be that controlling. And he probably isn't a breeder at all - were there any other birds around?

There are a number of very wrong things you were told, but I will start with the biting. Never ever let a bird that size bite you. They are large, they are super strong and they can hurt you badly. The only good bite is an unsuccessful bite.

The bird was probably cage territorial (didn't want to come out and had to be grabbed) because he had been treated badly outside the cage or had been left inside the cage for long periods - I mean weeks or months, not days.

Do not allow the man to maintain touch or come see him if you get him. That's a disaster. My Jasper's mom would come see her every now and then - Jasper loved her - and Jasper would go int grieving every time she came over. Just don't allow it. It is devastating for the bird.

Make darned sure you get a bill of sale and that this man gets a receipt. No conditions nor contingencies on the Bill of Sale. The bird is yours and only yours and don't allow it to be otherwise.

I adore macaws and have had two GW macaws for over twenty years. There have been highs and very, very low lows, but they have been through me and we are a unit.

 

[macawpower58]

I don't like the things the breeder told you. Your first instincts were right on not forcing Bennie to step up, etc...

The cage and the name aren't really important. Keep the cage as an extra (sleep cage perhaps, or one outside), or give it away as suggested. Keep or change the name as you feel fit. See how well Bennie knows and responds to it. Bennie may do better with a new name or not, you'll have to decide that yourself.

If you like the bird, by all means go for him. He's young and you can deal with the small issues he has now.
As for the breeder, I agree with this is a business transaction that afterwards he's not a part of the birds life.

Many breeders do become forceful over time, they begin to think of the birds as a commodity and not a living creature.
It is not how you want to handle any bird you'll live the next 50 years with!

 

[macawpower58]

I thought I'd read Bennie was about a year old, but now can't find it.
How old is Bennie?

Oops...never mind, I did find it again.
Just saying a year old macaw is just out of babyhood.
His habits now shouldn't be hard to overcome with time and trust.

 

[Ali]

But for some reason he decided to have me come over and meet his 1 year old blue and gold

@macawpower58 found it for you!

 

[MiniMacaw]

Also, never underestimate the effects of stable, consistent care. They recognize it and it will pay off eventually. When a macaw bites or bluffs to bite they’re clearly saying something. When people ignore it completely and keep trying to get the macaw to step up then the macaw is confused and thinks, well this bluff isn’t working so next time maybe I’ll take a chunk out. They don’t get why we wouldn’t understand their (to them) very clear signals. By continuing to do it to show “who’s boss” it creates a feeling of learned helplessness in the macaw. That feeling of just giving up and giving in that doesn’t make a life well lived.
But if you earn their trust and they realize you read their signals and respect the boundaries, they start to feel safe. Bowser (my macaw) didn’t start to really come out of his shell until he realized he wasn’t going back to the bad guy who hurt him. I found surrounding him with fun, colorful toys and sharing mealtimes with him with fresh, hard to resist foods he loved worked best. I don’t know if every macaw is like this, but for Bowser mealtime is a shared family time and it’s when he’s happiest. Even if he’s had a stressful day (seen a scary bug, I forgot his favorite bread, etc lol) family meal time calms him back down and seems to be a special thing for him.

 

[macawpower58]

I've known one macaw once that was 'dominated' badly.
The bird had to follow commands, was and wasn't allowed to do so many things.
This was the saddest macaw I've ever seen. The body language was fear and nervousness.
He has some phobic habits develop from the constant fear and stress.
It broke my heart, but his owner swore he was a bird whisperer that knew best.
Me and the club he belonged to tried to change this man but failed.
That bird will forever haunt me, and I saw the damage his behavior did.

 

[BrianB]

There is something about that breeder I don’t trust. It’s possible that this isn’t a bird he’s had very long, more likely it’s a bird flip. He got the bird cheap, doesn’t have any emotional investment and want to just exchange the bird for money. It’s shady but it happens more than you think.

If you go through with it the first thing I would do is take the bird to an avian vet for a full work up. Make sure the bird doesn’t have any health issues. They can also check for healed injuries that would indicate past abuse.

Macaws also sense your fear. If you present yourself as confident to the bird you will do better. If you’re nervous they will know it, especially if you’re afraid of getting bit. It makes them nervous and edgy. This bird already has trust issues because the guy forcefully removes the bird from the cage. You may be the best this for Bennie at this point. If you do take him be ready to replace the cage and everything in it. The bird deserves that.

 

[Lady Jane]

You have been given excellent advice. Hope it helps in your decision.

 

[tka]

The bird you can work with.
The human on the other hand...

It's really up to you whether you want to interact with the "breeder" any further. I agree that this sounds really shady. As sad as it is, we cannot personally get every bird out of an unhappy situation. If you feel able to set and enforce some very firm boundaries with the breeder and you feel a connection with this macaw, then go for it. However, if the breeder makes you feel uncomfortable and/or if you don't think you'll be able to tell him to butt out of your life and/or if you think it will end up in an ugly custody battle, then walk away.

I don't know if this is an option for you, but are their rescues in your area? Macaws end up in rescue because they are so long-lived and people's circumstances change. A good rescue will be able to match you with a suitable bird and will understand how to let go. There will be proper contracts and agreements about how much involvement they have. Usually it's just a clause to say that you will return the bird to the rescue if you can no longer care for them.

 

[Lady Jane]

If you live in a state covered by Phoenix Landing check in with them. They are on FB.

 

[clarousel]

This breeder gives off bad vibes. I think any normal person would sense there is something not right with the situation - from the way he speaks to you and how he treats Bennie.

It almost sounds like mistreatment to me with forcing Bennie and you to do things that make both of you uncomfortable. It is very strange to encourage someone to get bitten by a large bird!

I hope that if you do end up getting Bennie, the breeder won't be contacting you after. And I agree with what the rest said, you're not obliged to fulfill all the things he requested.

 

[Ali]

requested

This is the important word. There will be no contract saying all these things must be done, so you have no reason to fulfill them, as @clarousel said

 

[msplantladi]

You have received some excellent advice. The 2 macaws in my profile were both badly abused when I got them-it took a couple of years to fully gain their trust. The green one (Military Macaw ) came around much easier than the red one ( Scarlett Macaw). Out of all the macaws I have rescued the blue & gold by far the easiest to retrain. It takes time & a lot of devotion. Basically you are getting a child for life, With each passing year, you will see changes, not all you will like. You will need to learn how to recognize those changes & how to deal with them. Big birds are a lot more time-demanding than your sun conure but with the right training (for both you & the bird) he can grow into a wonderful life long champion. Please come back & let us know what you decided.
p.s. Can't repeat enough what Macawpower58 said..." It's a business transaction" treat it as such. This guy I don't care for..personally wouldn't follow any of his advice or let him have any say after the sale is made.

 

[Macawnutz]

Tell him what he wants to hear, grab the bird and run. Give him your phone number and address a few digits off.

 

[Ali]

Tell him what he wants to hear, grab the bird and run. Give him your phone number and address a few digits off.

I second that!