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Seizing Birds

SongBird

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I'm very new, and I'm not certain if this is where I should be posting... So er, direct me to somewhere else if I got it wrong... :)


Anyway, I have had a problem with my aviary (I'm guessing thats where it came from) for about two-three years now. My aviary is a gorgeous Two sided small walk in. One side was for my green cheeked conure pair. And I would say they had about 3 1/2 - 4 feet of space between the soft and the hooked wire. Well, the female conure started to have a huge seizure after about of a year in her side of the aviary, she had food, water, it wasn't cold, and there was not a snake in sight, I didn't know what in the world was wrong with her. Of course I couldn't leave her thrashing on the floor with her eyes glazed with no apparent body control. I gently picked her up in a towel (she wasn't very tame) and to my growing panic her flipping about was getting weaker. She soon died in my hands with me heartbroken and her mate in grief. Since he was so sad, we got another mate for him. Who soon died in the same way, much to our horror. The male didn't die though, and he was so very lonely and withdrawn.

I had a sunday conure who was called Pepe, not a DNA tested male, and my mother 'urged' me to put him in with poor poblo. I did it, much to my reluctance because I now knew that something was definitely wrong about the aviary or something having to do with it. After about a month and a half of them being in there, I finally had gotten my mother to agree in pulling my boys in. A couple weeks later, Pepe fell of his perch and thrashed around on the bottom of his cage. The same way the others did. I was freaking out (Not a good way to handle situations) and picked him up to try to comfort him, gradually he came out of it and went back to normal, until a week later. He had seizures every week or two but by then we couldn't afford to take him to the vet. Six months later I came home from school to find my dear baby had died from one last seizure, with a very distraught Green cheek hovering above him...

Now, a year later from this, Seizures have taken a hold of most of my soft-bills.


Has anybody come across this? Is it a disease? Chemicals? Mice? Poison? I don't want to get anymore of the lovable feathered friends until I have gotten rid of it...
EXTRA:

* I've had mice problems because of the seed, they come and eat and nest and poop and pee all over the place. They have also ate some of my smaller finches in the past. You think its them that cause the seizures?
 
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DQTimnehs

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How about taking them to the vet when they appear ill? If it is something contagious or environmental do you really want to lose your whole flock? A necropsy of one you lost could have provided some answers. If you can't afford vet care, you can't afford more birds.
Nobody here can tell you the reason your birds are dying. They need to see a vet.
 

parrotluv

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Mice feces and urine are very toxic to birds, that could be a cause. Also depending on the wire type you used outside, it could be toxic metal from the wire.
 

Anne & Gang

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It could be anything...you seriously need to take one of the birds for a necropsy (autopsy) to find out what the problem is..and quit adding birds before you do find out w hat it is. also, you say you added another bird to the mix when your male's mate died..not a good idea...birds mourn their mates and should be allowed to mourn. also I find it seriously disturbing that you state the m ice ate some of your finches..that must be one hell of an infestation..and I can imagine very disgustingly filthy..you seriously need to get rid of the mice infestation as mice are full of horrible diseases and can easily transmit these diseases .. You seriously need to get one or more bird to an avian vet and seriously re examine your whole aviary set up.
 

JosienBB

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Please don't get any more birds until you find out what is wrong :( And next time the seizures happen, don't just leave them alone - please take them to a vet. And test for heavy metal poisoning and your mice issue. There's very obviously something wrong with your aviary.
 

JLcribber

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Sounds an awful lot like metal toxicity. The most likely culprit being galvanized wire (although it could from something else metal in there.
 

melissasparrots

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It could be a lot of things. It could be that what your seeing is the way the bird just dies. Falling off the perch and flopping around may not be a siezure so much as the process of dieing. I would definitely have a zinc and lead test done, but also it could be parasitic diseases too. Some of which are treatable. As others have said, with this kind of history, it would be irresponsible to get another bird. You've had enough death. If you are concerned about the ones still alive, have them totally vet checked with blood work and cultures and PCR tests done. Look into vermin proofing your aviary. Put down a solid bottom and area around the sides or use very small openings in the wire. If you have mice coming in, you need to fix the aviary so that can't happen and then disinfect everything. Then test your surviving birds to make sure they aren't infected with a parasite that they are continually reinfecting themselves and others through contact with their own droppings. There's no way around it, your just going to have to work with a vet. Rather than spend money on another bird, spend that money at the vet on the ones your currently have.
 

Birdbabe

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Im so sorry you have this issue :( Cheeck for metal toxicity and its possible the mice are carrying "hanta virus". This is killed with bleach water and bleach water only. Not good for the birds, but can you move the birds inside until the problem is figured out and the mice are disposed of?
 

CheekyBeaks

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I agree with other metal toxicity is a high probability. Did you clean the aviary with vinegar when you brought it home? This is a must with any new aviary as it neutralises the metals. If it is a poor quality wire there may also be blobs of welding on the wires that will need to be filled off than scrubbed with vinegar.
i would take your remaining birds to an avian vet to have them checked out and rule out any other cause and get some advice on the aviary.
I lost my gorgeous red cap parrot hen Earlier this year from metal toxicity, she passed away at the vets while undergoing treatment, she had a seizure and aspirated. We discovered that she had been chewing a section of shade cloth on the side of her aviary where it had been drilled into the metal framework with a screw and washer as she was chewing out the shade cloth she got metal fragments that had been caught in the fibres between the frame and washer when they were drilled in. Needless to say this has been removed and replaced with see through roofing sheets. We actually had taken her in as we thought she had a wing injury and was quiet, the x-ray showed up the metal fragments so she was hospitalised.

Metal toxicity acts very quickly in the system and normally kills with about 2-3 days if they don't get treatment if you see any lethargy, fluffed-up appearance, vomiting (shaking head from side to side while bringing up food) weakness, they will also start to halucinate as the toxicity progresses so they may also act a little strange take them to an avian vet immediately.

I would strongly urge you to bring all of your birds inside out of the aviary and put them in powder coated cages until you get a vet check and give the aviary a good scrub with vinegar and look for chunks of metal that could be chewed off and file them back. I would also recommend not introducing any more birds until you have sorted out this issue and know exactly what's going on.
 

SongBird

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Kaylan
Alright. Thank you all for the great advice. But I think I need to give a little more information to lighten the misunderstandings. :)

For those of you who jumped to a conclusion and/or suspected of me NOT taking my birds to the vet, AND getting more birds on top of that, rest assured that isn't the case. I had said that while my dear Pepe was seizing we had not been able to afford the vet then... I also pointed out that I don't want to get more birds while this was going on. AKA: I'm NOT going to, it rips my heart in two every time one dies, I can't take it anymore.

The outcome of the vet wasn't so great, that's why you find me asking questions. I spent around 350$ just to have the person ask for a whole bunch of almost pointless tests of heart-worms, liver cancer, etc, etc, only to have the bird die with them. Ending up with a big fat blank. I can get into more details if you guys ask me... Anyway, I say rip off, as most of our vets up here are...

My aviary can not be picked up, it's built on the ground, therefore it has special dirt (Bought dirt) thats raked and cleaned every week, and branches for perches. Thats how there are mice, cause it's an outdoor area thats underneath my garage overhang. (Out of the weather) By the way... Do you know how to get rid of the rodents? I tried traps outside the bird area and flooding them. I don't want to try poison because of my birds. Any suggestions?

Metal toxin...Hmm... Well, I'll have to wash my metal webbing with vinegar and see if it helps. It seems likely, come to think of it, my hooked bills got it worse than the soft bills, they use their beaks to climb the mesh, and the three doves that died from the seizures was a mother and her couple babies. :( She had built the nest against the wire... I feel really bad for not knowing about the toxin probability...

This is the horrible part of learning from experiences...
 
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Stormcloud

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Alright. Thank you all for the great advice. But I think I need to give a little more information to lighten the misunderstandings. :)

For those of you who jumped to a conclusion and/or suspected of me NOT taking my birds to the vet, AND getting more birds on top of that, rest assured that isn't the case. I had said that while my dear Pepe was seizing we had not been able to afford the vet then... I also pointed out that I don't want to get more birds while this was going on. AKA: I'm NOT going to, it rips my heart in two every time one dies, I can't take it anymore.

The outcome of the vet wasn't so great, that's why you find me asking questions. I spent around 350$ just to have the person ask for a whole bunch of almost pointless tests of heart-worms, liver cancer, etc, etc, only to have the bird die with them. Ending up with a big fat blank. I can get into more details if you guys ask me... Anyway, I say rip off, as most of our vets up here are...

My aviary can not be picked up, it's built on the ground, therefore it has special dirt (Bought dirt) thats raked and cleaned every week, and branches for perches. Thats how there are mice, cause it's an outdoor area thats underneath my garage overhang. (Out of the weather) By the way... Do you know how to get rid of the rodents? I tried traps outside the bird area and flooding them. I don't want to try poison because of my birds. Any suggestions?

Metal toxin...Hmm... Well, I'll have to wash my metal webbing with vinegar and see if it helps. It seems likely, come to think of it, my hooked bills got it worse than the soft bills, they use their beaks to climb the mesh, and the three doves that died from the seizures was a mother and her couple babies. :( She had built the nest against the wire... I feel really bad for not knowing about the toxin probability...

This is the horrible part of learning from experiences...

When posting about such matters Kaylan, for both your own and your birds benefit, you need to do so with absolute clarity. There is a lot of information contained in this post that was not mentioned in your original post. For us to be of the best possible assistance we need as much detail as you are able to provide. For example:

1). Did you take your bird to an Avian Vet or a General Vet? An Avian Vet's specialty is dealing with birds.
2). Despite what another member has posted, I don't recommend the use of vinegar (acetic acid) on aviary wire. It's acidic nature will promote oxidisation and rust. Warm soapy water is a better option IMO.
3). You mentioned in this post that you have also had Doves that have died from the same symptoms. Given that doves are not
hook bills and won't be climbing around the wire like parrots, heavy metal poisoning caused by the aviary wire is unlikely to be the culprit. Possible, but unlikely.
4). You are using branches for perches. Are the trees you acquired these branches from toxic to birds??? IMO like the wire, this is unlikely to be the cause given that soft bills are also involved.
5). You mentioned you have a soil base in your aviaries. What sort of soil is this??? Where did you acquire it from??? IMO given that both your hook bills and your soft bills have died exhibiting similar symptoms and that both are likely to be "raking" through the dirt at various points of the day means that this is one of the two most likely sources of your issues. Since you have soil floors in your aviaries, your vet testing for ring, round and/or tape worms is valid and justified. Have you had the soil tested for any contaminants??? Of all the aviary bases, soil is the least hygienic. I tend to agree with JLcribber that the symptoms exhibited by your flock tend to lead me down the toxicity route and contaminated soil is a real possibility.
6). You need to vermin-proof your aviary and stop mice and/or rats entering. Killing the existing rodents will only be a very short-term solution at best. Other rodents from around the neighbourhood will soon pick up on the scent of uneaten bird food and move in on the vacant territory you've left by wiping out the earlier rodents. You need to find out where they're getting in and close any of entrance/exit points. If your birds have consumed any rodent faeces, assuming them to be food pellets for example, and those rodents have earlier consumed a poison such as RatSak, then your birds could be potentially poisoned this way.

In summary, I would recommend you do the following:
a) Next time you speak to a vet, make sure he/she is an Avian Vet. Make sure that they are aware of all the facts...even things that may seem incidental such as dirt floors in the aviary and that hook bills and soft bills are exhibiting the same symptoms.
b) Give your aviaries a good scrub with warm soapy water and then hose them out.
c) Ensure that you use non-toxic branches/wood for perches. (Please note that I'm NOT saying that you are using toxic branches/wood).
d) I would replace the soil on the aviary floor with cement pavers. Not only will you find this a far more hygienic solution, because you can just hose it out, but you will also vermin-proof the bottom of the aviary.
e) You need to vermin-proof the rest of the aviary.

I would think that by implementing parts b) though to e) should go a long way towards solving many of your issues. Also make sure you are using a high quality seed mix or pellets. I would also recommend that you take at least one of your birds in every few months to an Avian Vet for a wellness check until you've got on top of things. Hope this helps. :)
 
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