• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here
  • This forum is for advice about initial treatment given to your injured/sick bird until a qualified avian veterinarian is available.
    THIS IS NOT MEANT TO REPLACE VET CARE

scared

Status
Not open for further replies.

Milo

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
6/30/11
Messages
4,067
Real Name
Jenny
It doesn't mean that it's less likely to be asper, but what could have happened is that you caught it incredibly early. When I started treating Milo I was told to be prepared to treat him for as long as six months, but we ended up with barely even one month of nebulizing. The recommendation for treatment that we got was to nebulize for two weeks after we stopped seeing symptoms, I'm not sure what your vet will recommend
 

CHarris

Meeting neighbors
Joined
4/25/12
Messages
68
Location
Lakewood, CA
Real Name
Cheri Harris
I'm not certain of the solution... I ended up just bringing a syringe of it home from work because Milo is so tiny. The thing that comes to mind are the eye irrigating solutions, although I'm not sure if they add extra ingredients to those. I'd just email your vet one last time to ask for a brand that would be okay to use. I wouldn't use salt water because you can't be 100% sure of the salinity
Wow, that is a venture...I would say if your not a vet then don't offer your opinion on pharmacuticals
 

melissasparrots

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
1/9/11
Messages
4,081
Location
Iowa
Did the vet ever do a CBC on him? It seems like usually when I've heard of birds with a real case of asper the white blood cell count is sky high. Way more even than you normal see for stress and a lot of other problems. I know sometimes the results of an asper test can be questionable because its so prevalent in the environment and contamination of the sample is possible. However, a positive asper test combined with a high white count might tend to cement the diagnosis. I believe they can also do an antibody titer, which combined with the culture results and CBC should be able to give you real information. If you haven't done that testing, it might be worth it to you just to have answers. It sounds like your stressing over it and actual test results could give you major piece of mind if you haven't had them done yet. I've done the medicating for no reason, as well as the misdiagnosis thing with vets. Normally because the correct test wasn't done and I wasn't aggressive enough in requesting that the vet go all out with the testing. Peace of mind is huge for me, so I'm prone to doing the test just so I know.
Melissa
 

Milo

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
6/30/11
Messages
4,067
Real Name
Jenny
Wow, that is a venture...I would say if your not a vet then don't offer your opinion on pharmacuticals
I did say to email the vet about an appropriate solution to use for nose drops, I was giving a reason NOT to use salt water mixed at home and to NOT just go out and buy saline from a store before consulting a VET.
 

Big Blues

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/16/09
Messages
3,003
Keeping in close contact with your vet with any changes and questions under their care is so important, healing prayers for little Lupin. :hug8:
 

Tangle Elf

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
12/10/11
Messages
2,938
Location
NJ
Real Name
Jen
No they have not mentioned saline drops. What do I need to do to give him saline drops? Is is simply use a syringe to drop a mixture of salt water into his nostrils?
Thanks for the help :)
I use sterile saline for nasal flushes and nebulizing. What water are you using in your nebulizer? You can get sterile saline from your vet or a medical supply store. You use a needle to get it out of the bottle, remove the needle and use the syringe to drop it in. Don't use stuff that's designed for eyedrops, just normal saline. Eyedrop and contact stuff usually has other ingredients.
 

gazzington

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/29/11
Messages
87
Thanks to you all. He is going back again to the vet on Monday and I am hoping for good news. Yeah I think knowing what he has had would help my mind but as long as he gets better I shall be happy. If it is asper what can I do to make sure he does not get it again? He gets fresh food twice daily and I take it away once he has eaten. There has sometimes been damp in the house but we use a air purifer and a dehumidifier in the house to keep things under control as well as opening windows daily to give good ventilation. I live in Wales were it is cold and damp for large sections of the year so am unsure what can i do?
 

gazzington

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/29/11
Messages
87
He has his vets appointment tomorrow, and we are quite worried. We were optimistic as we had not heard that trumpet noise for over five days. In every other way he is acting fine though. Really worried at what's wrong with him and why it came back :(
 

Hankmacaw

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avian Angel
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
1,000,001
Location
Arizona
Real Name
Mary Lynn Skinner
Your little guy sure has a lot of symptoms that are common to Aspergillosis. One of the nasty things about Asper is that it can present almost anywhere in their bodies. My Hank had colonies on both his liver and kidneys long before it went into his lungs and airsacs. Here is a write up I did about Asper a couple of years ago.

http://forums.avianavenue.com/diseases/11130-aspergillosis-2.html

I just remembered that you live in Wales. The UK is ahead of the USA in the treatment and prevention of Asper for just the reasons you mentioned - cold and wet. Asper is a serious problem to the poultry business in the UK. I highly recommend that you buy F10 Biocare and use it liberally as a disinfectant.
 
Last edited:

gazzington

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/29/11
Messages
87
Thanks guys. I am dreading today's appointment but also just want to find out if she thinks it is aspergillosis and we carry on with anti fungals or could it be fumes from new vinyl carpet in bathroom. I am unsure what symptoms or treatment for the second option are.
 

gazzington

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/29/11
Messages
87
Just got back. He says that lupin is better than he was which therefore suggests that it is a fungal infection. We have to keep him on antifungal medicine for another two weeks before going back. How long is the norm on these medicines?
 

Milo

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
6/30/11
Messages
4,067
Real Name
Jenny
It can take awhile on them, it just depends on the severity of the infection. My vet told me to be prepared for up to 3 months of treatment but thankfully we ended up with about one and a half. Treating at least two weeks past the symptoms seems to be the standard to make sure the infection is gone.

I'm glad that Lupin is doing better!
 

Tangle Elf

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
12/10/11
Messages
2,938
Location
NJ
Real Name
Jen
I'm a little concerned with the way that your vet is treating this. Have you had any tests run? Giving medications without a proper diagnosis leads to a) medication resistant diseases b) delays proper diagnosis and treatment c) ends up with unnecessary medications in their system.

Assuming that it is asper, Aspergillosis very frequently occurs at the same time as a bacterial infection. Giving some antibiotics and seeing if they work won't tell you if there is a bacterial infection because different bacteria respond to different drugs. Lupin needs a culture and sensitivity test to detect and identify bacteria. There are also three different tests for asper. My African Grey, Judy, has asper. Two of the three tests have been negative. We're waiting for the results of the third. The results are only to give us a baseline. Judy definitely has asper because the vet has been able to see it in the things coming out of her nose.

Judy's case is really severe and has gone untreated for a very long time, so don't get too worried about Lupin if you read her story. You've caught it quickly. With Judy, it went untreated by her previous owner. After I got her, it was misdiagnosed and mistreated by the first vet I took her to. He gave her antibacterials and antifungals, but they were broad spectrum and didn't treat the bacterial infection she has or the asper. Judy ended up having a seizure that has limited the mobility in her foot and possibly her wings. Another doctor diagnosed her with a foot injury. I finally got her to a good vet and she's now on the proper anti-fungal for the asper and we're waiting on the results of the culture and sensitivity test before treating the bacteria so that it can be treated properly. At this point, Judy's case is so severe that we may not be able to get rid of it, just manage it. My vet has also said that sometimes it takes more than one anti-fungal to keep it under control. It depends on the severity, the bird's immune system and probably the fungus itself. I urge you to make sure that Lupin gets properly treated and tested while it's still early.

As far as keeping it from coming back: no peanuts, no walnuts, no beddings made out of shells, no wild bird mixes, no pet grade nuts and seeds of any sort, especially sunflower seeds. No letting food mold in the refrigerator. I realize the climate there makes it very difficult to control mold in your house, but keep it under control the very best that you can. The molds from food and in a house are probably other types and aspergillus is the only one known to reproduce in the sinuses of a parrot, but why take a chance?

I wish you and Lupus the best. Remember that you are his voice and his advocate. Don't feel bad pushing the vet for more or getting a second opinion.
 

Birdiemarie

Feather Snuggler
Celebirdy of the Month
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/14/09
Messages
42,502
Location
Ohio
Real Name
Marie
Hope Lupin in having a good day today. :hug8:
 

gazzington

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/29/11
Messages
87
Thanks everyone. I am going to push for a blood test for him on our next appointment. I did wonder when the vet said that it must be fungal when the antibiotic had not cleared the problem as surely like us humans different antibiotics work better for different people and different illnesses. I did not realise that there are different types of antifungals and I shall ask him on our next appointment. Is asper the only fungal infection to affect the nasal part of a parrot? Also, how long would any of you recommend that I nebulize him for every day, as I currently do half an hour? Thanks again for everyone's help. I just want to get my friend better x
 

Milo

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
6/30/11
Messages
4,067
Real Name
Jenny
For milo I did an hour every day, but he was on clotrimazole and not F10 for nebbing
 

melissasparrots

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
1/9/11
Messages
4,081
Location
Iowa
Is asper the only fungal infection to affect the nasal part of a parrot? Also, how long would any of you recommend that I nebulize him for every day, as I currently do half an hour? Thanks again for everyone's help. I just want to get my friend better x
Asper would be one of the main ones to affect the nasal area. I would ask the vet how long to nebulize before you go with what anyone says online. Not saying Milo's mom is wrong. She just went with a different drug and your vet even if he's not doing the testing should at least know the specifics of the medicine he prescribes. I believe there are other fungeses that can sometimes affect the sinuses. Its just that asper is one of the more severe and gets a lot more attention. Usually its bacterial infections or sometimes a really bad case of yeast that gets up there from the choanal slit in the mouth.
 

gazzington

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/29/11
Messages
87
I did not think of a yeast infection. How is that treated? I am definitely going to push for a blood test next time we go to the vet to make sure that he is receiving the best medication that he can have.
 

Milo

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
6/30/11
Messages
4,067
Real Name
Jenny
I am pretty surprised that your vet hasn't taken at least a culture to make sure that you're using an appropriate antibiotic. I know it's been said but I think it's worth saying again... it is very important to know, especially after all this time, specifically what bacteria you're dealing with so that you can treat properly and not have resistance developed. Lupin is also big enough (assuming that I'm remembering correctly that he is an Amazon) to have enough blood drawn to do proper testing for Asper and such.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top