Rehomed 17 year old African Grey - territorial cage issues

[menagerie]

Hi,

I recently adopted a 17-year-old male African Grey. The bird had been owned by an older gentleman who got Alzheimers and I was told, the bird named Bo hadn't been much out of the cage, been fed seeds only, was pretty much a wild bird and no one dared go near his cage. Bo can't fly and we think t's because he's been for so long in a cage, he doesn't have the mussels maybe? Another gentleman decided to help rehome Bo and had him for 2 months and this is where I finally got Bo from. By that time Bo was happily coming out of his cage, talking like a book, loving his fruits and vegetables and jumping on the guys shoulder.
Bo has now been with me for 2 months and other than his extreme territorial aggression I'll go into a minute, he is a sweetheart. He spends most of his time on a play gym in our living room hanging out with the family and even allows me to carefully and with eagle eyes to run my hand over his wings and give a gentle head scratch. He jumps on my arm or shoulder and asks to come on my arm when he sees me.

Where things go wrong is around his cage and the room where he gets to play. The 1st month was fine and he didn't nip me once. I got him a large, new cage with toys which he loves and he seemed to be ok with my other 4 parrots around (in separate cages) and didn't mind the dogs either. But after about a month I couldn't clean his cage with him in it anymore and had to move him. Then, when I put him back later to go to bed, he'll step in the cage only to then turn around and bite me really bad. When he plays outside the cage in his cardboard boxes, he started charging at me trying to bite my feet if I can within a meter of the floor area of his cage. We have aviary outside which I started putting him in as it was getting warmer and today he started attacking me as I put his food inside. So his territory is getting wider and that concerns me a bit.
When he does bite I give him the evil eye and say no and if possible, I have him step up on a perch and come into the living room or somewhere else for a while and then back. As I said, when I clean his cage, he is normally in the living room as well. The injuries from his bites started to get quite bad which is why I bought 2 pairs of leather gloves and wear them together double gloved to handle him. If he bites, I pick him gently up with both hands and hold him on my lap, talk to him and then put him back. That helped a little bit but I have to say that it's also making me nervous now when he is in the living room with me or somewhere else and jumps on my shoulder. Biting my hands is one thing, but not keen to have him bite my face.

It's only been 2 months and from my experience with other rehomed birds, it normally takes 1 year until they are fully settled and happy. I was hoping though that you guys may have further ideas on how to assist with the aggressive behaviour. The entire family is able to feed him treats by hand in the living room and possibly even when he is in the cage. He seems very happy around us and comfortable, trusting, no sign of stress or anxiety. He's become very dangerous playing outside of his cage though. The other day he walked up behind my partner's 6-year-old niece and bit her really bad in the ankle and left a deep gash in her leg. He's been trying to grab the dogs walking past his cage which he didn't do at the beginning.

Any ideas? Thank you in advance

 

[Kate&Pigeon]

I don't have a lot of experience at all, but I also have an adult rescue (Senegal, not grey), who is a bit territorial about his cage. I've not placed my hand in the cage at all while he's in his cage. I just open the door to let him out. And when he needs his water changing while he's in the cage, I've been training him to stay on a perch with an almond flake and he stays there while I change his bowls.
When he's grumpy with me, I keep having to tell myself he's not been with me very long and needs much more time to get used to his new home. We can't know a lot about what their lives were like in the 20 years they lived before they met us.
If you're stroking his back feathers perhaps he thinks of you as his mate, so growing aggressive to others in the house?
Best of luck to you with your grey.

 

[Mizzely]

I wouldn't use my hands for stepping up if he's going to be a stinker. Use a perch to transport him for your safety.

Also if he's being a floor troll and attacking people on the ground, I would try to keep him from being on the floor at all. My Jardine's gets nesty on the floor (especially if cardboard boxes are in play) so he's no longer allowed on the floor. He also doesn't fly so I just removed all paths and it he manages to make it, he gets put back up immediately.

You're also bring inconsistent with what happens when he bites.

When he does bite I give him the evil eye and say no and if possible, I have him step up on a perch and come into the living room or somewhere else for a while and then back

If he bites, I pick him gently up with both hands and hold him on my lap, talk to him and then put him back.

Inconsistent handling of the biting makes it very confusing, particularly if he wants your attention and you are giving it. When a bird bites me, I put them down immediately, evil eye them, turn my back and walk out of the room.

 

[Monica]

First off, welcome to the forum! It sounds like you've got quite the handful of a grey on your hands! I'm going to break down your post some to try to get to some key points.

Bo can't fly and we think t's because he's been for so long in a cage, he doesn't have the mussels maybe?

This is a good possibility, and with training it may be possible to get him flying again, although he may never be a pro-flyer. Besides being mentally and physically healthy for them, it can also be a great way to get rid of pent up energy!

with eagle eyes to run my hand over his wings and give a gentle head scratch

No petting anywhere other than the head! This can encourage birds to become hormonal and aggressive. May even lead to egg laying in hens.

But after about a month I couldn't clean his cage with him in it anymore and had to move him.

As mentioned, station training can help. You can either teach him to station in or on his cage, or move him to his stand so he's away from the cage. Reward, reward, reward desired behavior!

Then, when I put him back later to go to bed, he'll step in the cage only to then turn around and bite me really bad.

Can you teach him to put himself to "bed" rather than you putting him back in? And rewarding him for doing so?

When he plays outside the cage in his cardboard boxes, he started charging at me trying to bite my feet if I can within a meter of the floor area of his cage.

Get rid of the cardboard boxes. This is only encouraging his undesired behaviors.

We have aviary outside which I started putting him in as it was getting warmer and today he started attacking me as I put his food inside.

Again, as mentioned, station training. Teach him to stay away from the food dishes when you put them in the cage or take them out. Alternatively, only put them in when he's not in the aviary. That is, put the food in the aviary first, then put him in there. Don't take the food out until he's out first.

When he does bite I give him the evil eye and say no and if possible, I have him step up on a perch and come into the living room or somewhere else for a while and then back. ---- If he bites, I pick him gently up with both hands and hold him on my lap, talk to him and then put him back.

Sounds like you are rewarding him for biting by giving him attention. Please learn to avoid bites, and if a bite does occur, get the bird off of you! DO NOT allow them to continue biting, even if it means prying their beak from your flesh! As long as it's safe to do so, set him down, turn your back and ignore him for a minimum of 3-5 seconds. You can see if he'll willingly step back up after that, but if he doesn't, give him some more time to cool off.

The only bite that can't be rewarded is the bite that never occurs. By "allowing" him to bite, it's only reinforcing his need to bite... so it's best to learn to read his body language and avoid them as much as possible.

The injuries from his bites started to get quite bad which is why I bought 2 pairs of leather gloves and wear them together double gloved to handle him.

Best to toss. I have heard of birds that learned that gloves were okay to sit on but were still afraid of the bare hand. Other birds may learn not to bite the glove but it doesn't teach them to not bite hands. As it's been mentioned, if it's absolutely necessary that you must move him, you can teach him to step up on a perch instead. This could be a "T" perch or even a rope perch with the ends in your hands so the bird steps up on the "bottom" of the "U".

Biting my hands is one thing, but not keen to have him bite my face.

Best to keep him off of your shoulder for now.

The other day he walked up behind my partner's 6-year-old niece and bit her really bad in the ankle and left a deep gash in her leg. He's been trying to grab the dogs walking past his cage which he didn't do at the beginning.

Sounds like a fun game for him! Please create a barrier around his cage so that the dogs do not get hurt and do not allow him around kids.





It would be greatly beneficial to him to start target training him which can be used to teach him to move around his cage, step up onto a perch or hand without biting, and even to move him around the house.

Free Training Resources

Someone recently told me that there was only one trainer on the internet that had free training advice. This is, quite simply, false. This “trainer” they spoke of is an amateur that has taken advice from salesmen who market themselves as bird trainers. Not to say that they don't enjoy helping...

forums.avianavenue.com

You may also want to up the foraging activities so it keeps him busy.

 

[menagerie]

I don't have a lot of experience at all, but I also have an adult rescue (Senegal, not grey), who is a bit territorial about his cage. I've not placed my hand in the cage at all while he's in his cage. I just open the door to let him out. And when he needs his water changing while he's in the cage, I've been training him to stay on a perch with an almond flake and he stays there while I change his bowls.
When he's grumpy with me, I keep having to tell myself he's not been with me very long and needs much more time to get used to his new home. We can't know a lot about what their lives were like in the 20 years they lived before they met us.
If you're stroking his back feathers perhaps he thinks of you as his mate, so growing aggressive to others in the house?
Best of luck to you with your grey.

Hi and thank you so much for your encouragement. Same as you I keep reminding myself it's only been a little while and he's doing so much better than I expected. I like your idea of giving him a treat to keep him occupied while I do stuff. This morning, for instance, he didn't mind me putting in his dish with fresh fruit, but I guess just like people, parrots can be moody too. I'm used to being able to reach into any of my birds cages (I have 5 parrots in 3 cages) with no worries what so ever. I was surprised by his what seemed to me extreme behaviour. Someone posted on a different thread that it helps to give them a separate sleeping area than the play area. Not sure if that would make a difference for him but worth trying.

The bit about stroking his back feathers was mentioned by someone else too and I would have never thought about it since I do it with my Galah girl all the time. Having said that, I can now see her territorial behavior when she's with me towards others in the room. I always saw it as jealousy if I don't give her my undivided attention. Loads more to talk about on a different thread I guess ;D Fab forum to share insights.

 

[menagerie]

I wouldn't use my hands for stepping up if he's going to be a stinker. Use a perch to transport him for your safety.

Also if he's being a floor troll and attacking people on the ground, I would try to keep him from being on the floor at all. My Jardine's gets nesty on the floor (especially if cardboard boxes are in play) so he's no longer allowed on the floor. He also doesn't fly so I just removed all paths and it he manages to make it, he gets put back up immediately.

You're also bring inconsistent with what happens when he bites.





Inconsistent handling of the biting makes it very confusing, particularly if he wants your attention and you are giving it. When a bird bites me, I put them down immediately, evil eye them, turn my back and walk out of the room.

Thank you, I love your floor troll description ;D Made me laugh! So thinking about that, his original cage was too high off the ground for him to climb down or off the cage. The new cage goes all the way down to the floor with a play area at the top. At the beginning, he stayed up there but now he's venturing off to visit and tease the other birds in the cages. I guess I made the mistake of giving him large cardboard boxes in front of his cage to keep him busy while I'm gone (supervised by my mother-in-law). I guess the cardboard fun will have to stay in his cage only from now on.
We do have a very large cage in (big enough for me to climb inside) in which my Galah and our ringneck live in. I'm thinking of swapping them with his cage but the ideal is still that he can come with me where ever. Given he can't fly is a real bonus and he is very good once he is away from his cage.

I don't want to really lock him up, because I still feel his current cage is not big enough for a bird his size. We are in New Zealand and summer is starting, so he can go for a few months in the aviary. My goal is to get him settled enough with me so he can come to work on those days when I don't work from home. Naturally, he loves being with people and I think he'd do well.

About the biting, first I did the evil eye thing and then last week I started the gloves which definitely earned me some respect around his cage and fewer attacks. Originally I let him come on my arm but when the biting started, after maybe about 2 weeks of him being with us, I used a perch to get him in and out and where ever he needs to go. When I take him out to the aviary I put my and on his back for support and he doesn't mind. He steps up onto the perch with no hesitation but every now and then he'll step forward and bite either going in or out of the cage. I prefer to use a shorter stick to give him more support so it's less wobbly, but that means that I have to wear gloves just in case.
So what I am hearing from you and others is that if he bites, I put him back in and walk away or talk to my other birds and reduce the general chance of him biting at all. Is that right?

 

[menagerie]

First off, welcome to the forum! It sounds like you've got quite the handful of a grey on your hands! I'm going to break down your post some to try to get to some key points.



This is a good possibility, and with training it may be possible to get him flying again, although he may never be a pro-flyer. Besides being mentally and physically healthy for them, it can also be a great way to get rid of pent up energy!




No petting anywhere other than the head! This can encourage birds to become hormonal and aggressive. May even lead to egg laying in hens.




As mentioned, station training can help. You can either teach him to station in or on his cage, or move him to his stand so he's away from the cage. Reward, reward, reward desired behavior!




Can you teach him to put himself to "bed" rather than you putting him back in? And rewarding him for doing so?




Get rid of the cardboard boxes. This is only encouraging his undesired behaviors.




Again, as mentioned, station training. Teach him to stay away from the food dishes when you put them in the cage or take them out. Alternatively, only put them in when he's not in the aviary. That is, put the food in the aviary first, then put him in there. Don't take the food out until he's out first.




Sounds like you are rewarding him for biting by giving him attention. Please learn to avoid bites, and if a bite does occur, get the bird off of you! DO NOT allow them to continue biting, even if it means prying their beak from your flesh! As long as it's safe to do so, set him down, turn your back and ignore him for a minimum of 3-5 seconds. You can see if he'll willingly step back up after that, but if he doesn't, give him some more time to cool off.

The only bite that can't be rewarded is the bite that never occurs. By "allowing" him to bite, it's only reinforcing his need to bite... so it's best to learn to read his body language and avoid them as much as possible.




Best to toss. I have heard of birds that learned that gloves were okay to sit on but were still afraid of the bare hand. Other birds may learn not to bite the glove but it doesn't teach them to not bite hands. As it's been mentioned, if it's absolutely necessary that you must move him, you can teach him to step up on a perch instead. This could be a "T" perch or even a rope perch with the ends in your hands so the bird steps up on the "bottom" of the "U".




Best to keep him off of your shoulder for now.




Sounds like a fun game for him! Please create a barrier around his cage so that the dogs do not get hurt and do not allow him around kids.





It would be greatly beneficial to him to start target training him which can be used to teach him to move around his cage, step up onto a perch or hand without biting, and even to move him around the house.

Free Training Resources

Someone recently told me that there was only one trainer on the internet that had free training advice. This is, quite simply, false. This “trainer” they spoke of is an amateur that has taken advice from salesmen who market themselves as bird trainers. Not to say that they don't enjoy helping...

forums.avianavenue.com

You may also want to up the foraging activities so it keeps him busy.

Thank you so much for your detailed reply! There is so much in there for me to take on board.

I read somewhere else that if the parrot bites you need to ensure the idea of being the alpha bird but since then O have read other posts who say there is no alpha bird as such. There’s quite a bit of conflicting information out there and so it really helps to learn a bit more about it. You reckon back in the cage and ignore? That’s what I used to do with my Galah girl when she went through a phase which eventually stopped by consistently doing that.

Most of my birds can be out unsupervised but I guess not this one. I mentioned in another reply that I am hoping to eventually bring him with me to work which I think he would enjoy. He loves being on his station in the living room and is very well behaved. Should I encourage more time away from the cage or just accept that his cage is his castle which he will defend? How do you teachers him to stay in a specific ATEA in the cage while changing the food or cleaning it? He gets quite angry when I clean his cage one time he sat on top on the play gym through things at me so I would stop. Pretty funny until he gets more aggro and charges.

I like the barrier idea and will have a think what I can use.

Thank you so much!

 

[Monica]

In New Zealand, eh? Gorgeous country! And as far as I can tell... sucks when it comes to bird products! I've visited once, south island only though. Loved Milford Sound, the glow worms, Queenstown and other areas. Kind of scary though, as I left a week before the 2011 earthquake hit in Christchurch.

I read somewhere else that if the parrot bites you need to ensure the idea of being the alpha bird but since then O have read other posts who say there is no alpha bird as such.

That is thankfully not a common held belief here... and for good reason! One, birds are not dogs! And two, not even dogs should be treated that way! The very scientist who coined the term "alpha" and "dominance" in wolves regrets it. I'm more than happy to share advice stating the whole "alpha" thing is terrible with birds! (plenty more about it with dogs, too!)

5 Myths about Parrot Behavior

When you are learning about parrots, it is often quite natural to turn to the internet for information. Chat groups in particular often...

goodbirdinc.blogspot.com

Parrot Behavior Problems | Positive Bird Training

Resources for parrot owners for parrot behavior problems including parrot behavior books, DVDS, workshops, webinars, videos, articles, magazines, courses, consultants and seminars

www.goodbirdinc.com

http://www.behaviorworks.org/files/articles/The%20Struggle%20for%20Dominance%202001.pdf

http://www.behaviorworks.org/files/articles/Alternatives%20to%20Parrot%20Breaking%202002.pdf

In short though, try to think of biting as a form of communication. Is the bird being curious and exploring your hands while being a little too rough? Can they learn to play with a toy instead or learn how to forage? Maybe learn new behaviors? Is the bird biting because he doesn't want to do something? If yes, how can you teach him to *want* to do it? Make it like it was his idea in the first place? Is he afraid of something and biting out of fear? How can you desensitize him? Is he biting out of displaced aggression? How can you change his behavior so he doesn't feel the need to bite?

You reckon back in the cage and ignore?

If you are literally at the cage, then yes! If you aren't, then no. Taking him back to the cage would be rewarding the behavior or not discouraging it because by the time you make it back to the cage he could be onto a new behavior. It's better to simply get him off of you wherever you are at as long as it's safe to do so.

Should I encourage more time away from the cage or just accept that his cage is his castle which he will defend?

Neither. You should work on some target training through the cage bars and around the outside of the cage. Drop treats inside his cage whenever he's in it while you walk by and he can't come out. These can help to lessen, if not stop, cage aggression. If you don't do any training *at* the cage, then his cage aggression most likely wont ever go away.

How do you teachers him to stay in a specific ATEA in the cage while changing the food or cleaning it?

You can get him to come over to an area then start feeding him treats through the bars (or drop into a treat cup). After you can get him to that area semi-reliably (mostly reliably), you can use a cue such as "perch" or "station" as he starts moving over there, then reward him for going. At first, you may be shoveling *small* treats into his mouth to keep him there, but after a bit, you want to slowly increase the time between receiving the reward and staying put. This includes initially going to the spot. At first you want to reward immediately, but after many repetitions, you would only start rewarding for small increments of staying there and increasing the time spent there.



I once accidentally taught my cockatiel, Casey, to station on her cage door in the mornings. I don't normally have much time to spend with my birds in the morning, as i'm getting ready for work and having to take care of all the animals. When I would go to open the door to Casey's cage, she'd happily fly on out and go explore about the room. I couldn't have this, so I picked her up and put her back on the cage. I always rewarded her with scritches and one day I realized she didn't come out of the cage and go exploring. Instead, she sat at the door waiting for her scritches! I had used scritches *years* ago (she's 18 now) to teach her to step up. It wasn't that she didn't know how to, or couldn't... just that it's hard to get a bird to step up when their head is in the way asking for scritches! So her reward for stepping up was scritches! And it always has been all these years!

 

[Rain Bow]

@menagerie A great big welcome to AA! Listen to Miss Monica, she's the bomb @ getting bad bird behaviors squished out!

@Monica You had some really great stuff to read (as always!)