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Regaining trust of our CAG (Sad update post #6)

Lyco1983

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2/10/20
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23
Hello, thank you in advance for any advice. My wife and I owned a CAG for three wonderful years, who unfortunately succumbed to aspers around 18 months ago. The vet who performed the necroscopy said he was likely exposed to it during boarding while we were out of the country on vacation, which was heartbreaking. That to say, we have a bit of familiarity with CAG behavior, body language, interactions, etc.

We made the decision to adopt another little guy last summer, who as of today is approximately 11 months old. We began the bonding process immediately at the pet store, and for the first 4 months after bringing him home he seemed content and happy. I noticed that he seemed a bit more sensitive than the previous guy (anxious stepping from foot to foot with nail chewing, etc), but otherwise happy and healthy. Not very interested in toys or playing, but enjoyed spending time with the family and getting scratches.
Normal eating and vocalizations.

In October we noticed discharge from his nostril, which began a series of multiple visits to the avian vet to clear up what eventually was diagnosed as a sinus infection. Blood tests, lots of nasal flushes, antibiotics, etc. I work from home, so I was the one to take him to the vet. He immediately began to fear me, screaming anytime I would come near his cage, jumping from my hand anytime I'd pick him up, biting, etc. Sometimes this would result him him jumping and landing on the floor, which promoted even more fear and screaming when I would try to gently get him back to his cage. That behavior only seems to have gotten worse since October, to the point now where he shakes violently anytime he seems me.

I tried to re-gain trust by being near him without touching; sitting near his cage working on my computer, talking to him etc. Trying to show him I'm not a threat but also not touching him or trying to pick him up, which would set off the screaming and events above. Simply sitting in the same room with him again promotes the nervous behavior, anxiously chewing his nails down to the nubs to the point where he now has trouble perching. He does not exude any of this behavior towards my wife, who he trusts unconditionally. It is much more than simple "bonding" behavior......it is straight up fear of me.

I don't know what to do to regain trust, as even sitting in the same room with him causes him to self harm his feet or break off his tail feathers. I've read all the blogs, forums and even spoken to the avian vet. Our CAG isn't motivated by food or playing, I've tried everything, and will not engage with tried and true methods like target training. It makes me feel guilty that even being in the same room with him causes him so much anxiety, but if he is supposed to live with us for the next 50+ years, I can't exactly walk on egg shells around the house for the rest of my life. If time cures all wounds, that's fine with me, just curious if I should continue to be present without touching him (same room, talking to him) or if I should completely ignore him to minimize stress on him. He's only a baby at 11 months, so not sure if he'll grow out of this behavior or not, but suffice to say it's heartbreaking that he is terrified all the time in our otherwise very quiet and calm household. Is it normal for a baby grey to be so phobic? Is it likely for this behavior to last into adulthood? Thank you for any advice or thoughts.
 

Monaco

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I wonder if you could interact with your wife.... Far away from the bird, but within sight or hearing. Have fun, laugh, happy things. Maybe set up your phone to record his response or sit so your wife can see him to evaluate his reaction. Moving closer until he doesn't react fearfully to your voice or presence.

?? Someone who knows more than me will be along.

I'm so sorry about the heartbreak of it.
 

Fuzzy

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:welcome2: Fuse! So sorry about your first CAG. I also have an Amazon with Asper. What's your new CAG called?

Sounds like your new CAG has paired your presence and your hands with a lot of bad experiences, which in turn has led to him becoming phobic of you and your hands. I would back off completely for the time being since your presence is having such an adverse effect. My Amazon Ollie (who is the one with Asper) was also phobic about hands and people when he was given to me... this came about in similar circumstances as your CAG. Ollie, who was not tame in the first place, had to be caught up and medicated twice a day for 9 months... not by me, but the person who rescued him. The trouble is when stress levels are sky high, an animal can't learn properly... all it is wired to do is escape. So it makes sense to try to do everything possible to lower those stress levels. Your goal right now is to keep your CAG's body language as relaxed as possible using whatever means it takes.

I noticed with Ollie that eye contact would set him hyperventilating and hiding... so I actually didn't make proper eye contact with him for about 6 months to a year. You might like to try that with your CAG. I just snatched glances with my head turned sideways so that he could just see one eye. I didn't want to look like a predator with my two eyes on the front of my head. Talking about hiding, perhaps your wife could add some toys to his cage which he can hide behind which might make him feel a bit safer when you are in the room. Also move calmly, smoothly, slowly around him. Above all try to be predictable in your moves etc. Birds feel safer higher up where it is easier to spot predators, so when I approached Ollie I got down on my knees to clean out his cage/change the food and water bowls. In fact I used to crawl to his cage. Otherwise I kept my distance from his cage. I kept as far away as Ollie was comfortable with.

When your CAG is more relaxed with you in the room, you could try to approach him using negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is also known as escape/avoidance learning. The behaviour is strengthened (reinforced) by escaping an aversive (something the parrot doesn’t like). It's actually quite a useful way to approach an "untame" bird. With Ollie I had to find a way to get close enough to him to then be able to offer positive reinforcement. My presence was an aversive. He was frightened of me so I used negative reinforcement to approach him at full height:

I would walk towards his cage very slowly beginning from the far side of the room. When he showed slightly uneasy body language that was my starting point. I took a couple of steps back and waited for him to show relaxed body language (RBL) again. When I saw RBL I took a slow step forward (introducing an aversive). His continued RBL then earned half a step back (removing the aversive). I’d wait a few seconds and then took another slow step forward. His RBL earned half a step back, and so on until I could get closer and closer to his cage without him freaking. I did this every time I had to approach his cage. If his body language changed at all, even slightly, then I would go back a couple of steps until I saw his RBL and then break the steps down even smaller. I would do just half a minute of this now and again throughout the day. Eventually I could get to his cage and offer him a treat.

Meanwhile you say your CAG is not food motivated. Perhaps your wife could work on this. If she could try putting a little selection of different tree nuts into his pellet/seed bowl... maybe almond pieces, walnut pieces, cashew pieces, pine nuts etc. See which food he always picks out first - these will be his favourites. Then remove them from the bowl and your wife could try offering by hand. This is in preparation for you to then be able to feed him his favourite treats when you can get near enough to do so. Reason being the best way to earn trust is by providing positive reinforcement which in turn pairs your presence with something desirable.

I'm also wondering if you could change your appearance somehow, it might help hasten the process... beard/glasses/hat... not forever, just to make you look different for a while then you can gradually morph back into your usual look.
 

charlie

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:welcome2: Fuse! So sorry about your first CAG. I also have an Amazon with Asper. What's your new CAG called?

Sounds like your new CAG has paired your presence and your hands with a lot of bad experiences, which in turn has led to him becoming phobic of you and your hands. I would back off completely for the time being since your presence is having such an adverse effect. My Amazon Ollie (who is the one with Asper) was also phobic about hands and people when he was given to me... this came about in similar circumstances as your CAG. Ollie, who was not tame in the first place, had to be caught up and medicated twice a day for 9 months... not by me, but the person who rescued him. The trouble is when stress levels are sky high, an animal can't learn properly... all it is wired to do is escape. So it makes sense to try to do everything possible to lower those stress levels. Your goal right now is to keep your CAG's body language as relaxed as possible using whatever means it takes.

I noticed with Ollie that eye contact would set him hyperventilating and hiding... so I actually didn't make proper eye contact with him for about 6 months to a year. You might like to try that with your CAG. I just snatched glances with my head turned sideways so that he could just see one eye. I didn't want to look like a predator with my two eyes on the front of my head. Talking about hiding, perhaps your wife could add some toys to his cage which he can hide behind which might make him feel a bit safer when you are in the room. Also move calmly, smoothly, slowly around him. Above all try to be predictable in your moves etc. Birds feel safer higher up where it is easier to spot predators, so when I approached Ollie I got down on my knees to clean out his cage/change the food and water bowls. In fact I used to crawl to his cage. Otherwise I kept my distance from his cage. I kept as far away as Ollie was comfortable with.

When your CAG is more relaxed with you in the room, you could try to approach him using negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is also known as escape/avoidance learning. The behaviour is strengthened (reinforced) by escaping an aversive (something the parrot doesn’t like). It's actually quite a useful way to approach an "untame" bird. With Ollie I had to find a way to get close enough to him to then be able to offer positive reinforcement. My presence was an aversive. He was frightened of me so I used negative reinforcement to approach him at full height:

I would walk towards his cage very slowly beginning from the far side of the room. When he showed slightly uneasy body language that was my starting point. I took a couple of steps back and waited for him to show relaxed body language (RBL) again. When I saw RBL I took a slow step forward (introducing an aversive). His continued RBL then earned half a step back (removing the aversive). I’d wait a few seconds and then took another slow step forward. His RBL earned half a step back, and so on until I could get closer and closer to his cage without him freaking. I did this every time I had to approach his cage. If his body language changed at all, even slightly, then I would go back a couple of steps until I saw his RBL and then break the steps down even smaller. I would do just half a minute of this now and again throughout the day. Eventually I could get to his cage and offer him a treat.

Meanwhile you say your CAG is not food motivated. Perhaps your wife could work on this. If she could try putting a little selection of different tree nuts into his pellet/seed bowl... maybe almond pieces, walnut pieces, cashew pieces, pine nuts etc. See which food he always picks out first - these will be his favourites. Then remove them from the bowl and your wife could try offering by hand. This is in preparation for you to then be able to feed him his favourite treats when you can get near enough to do so. Reason being the best way to earn trust is by providing positive reinforcement which in turn pairs your presence with something desirable.

I'm also wondering if you could change your appearance somehow, it might help hasten the process... beard/glasses/hat... not forever, just to make you look different for a while then you can gradually morph back into your usual look.
Beautiful post! Thank you so much for sharing ❤
 

Lyco1983

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Joined
2/10/20
Messages
23
Thank you all for the wonderful advice, and I apologize for the very delayed response. I want to give a quick update and unfortunately it isn’t a great one. We determined after many vet visits that Ziggy was suffering from two serious conditions; a congenital defect affecting his inner ear/balance, and also skin cancer. Combined this explains his behavior, as he was constantly dizzy, in pain and battling his own body. An extremely sad situation, and per our vet likely due to over breeding. We were advised after attempting surgery to repair the inner ear defect that his condition was terminal and that euthanasia was the only way to ease his suffering. Of course this was a very difficult few months, hence the radio silence on here, but again I thank you all for the support and care.
 

Snowghost

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I'm so sorry for your loss.
 

ParrotNuts

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I am so sorry for your loss.......... :sorrow:
 
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