Rapid mood swings and biting sprees

[john frum]

Please have a read of this @john frum ;

Discipline/punishment. Just bad advice.

I need to vent. Someone posted about trying an "alternative" method of getting a bird to stop screaming. It's outdated and just wrong. I'm not going to start a fire on that thread so I'll just vent here. A Birds natural response to stimulus that scares them, is something they don't like or...

forums.avianavenue.com

I had a read of that... and once again, an amateur who thinks they are some kind of scientific expert on birds. Everything she said is internet drivel. And anyone who is a VENDOR of parrots - sorry, but how they sleep at night I do not know. If people could sell baby dolphins and tell you that a backyard pool is home enough, they would, and go on forums lecturing people on dolphin behaviour. Parrots should not be allowed to be sold as pets. Owning one and dealing with 'vendors' who feign love for animals makes me sick. they love the money they make by perpetuating the confinement of these creatures. And seeing all the parrots that end up in parrot rescue or birds for rehoming is proof enough these animals are not pet material. Great for you and me - we have a cool animal. What about if you were a bird - would you agree with seeing your species being sold and housed in cages? Conures - they can fly around. Large intelligent birds can't. A rant from a so-called expert/vendor/avian trafficker does not sway me. Puppy mill owners are not animal lovers, they are animal exploiters. So are bird mill owners, and shame on anyone trafficking CAGs/et al. If you sell birds for profit, then I side with PETA all the way. I cannot part with George as I have a moral obligation to take care of him, but would tell anyone selling these birds what I think of them - and for such a person to rant at people on this forum is hypocrisy. Like a slave trader lecturing slave owners on how to treat slaves. A stay at home welfare recipient breeding CAGs for profit... that is the picture.

 

[Zara]

I had a read of that... and once again, an amateur who thinks they are some kind of scientific expert on birds. Everything she said is internet drivel. And anyone who is a VENDOR of parrots - sorry, but how they sleep at night I do not know. If people could sell baby dolphins and tell you that a backyard pool is home enough, they would, and go on forums lecturing people on dolphin behaviour. Parrots should not be allowed to be sold as pets. Owning one and dealing with 'vendors' who feign love for animals makes me sick. they love the money they make by perpetuating the confinement of these creatures. And seeing all the parrots that end up in parrot rescue or birds for rehoming is proof enough these animals are not pet material. Great for you and me - we have a cool animal. What about if you were a bird - would you agree with seeing your species being sold and housed in cages? Conures - they can fly around. Large intelligent birds can't. A rant from a so-called expert/vendor/avian trafficker does not sway me. Puppy mill owners are not animal lovers, they are animal exploiters. So are bird mill owners, and shame on anyone trafficking CAGs/et al. If you sell birds for profit, then I side with PETA all the way. I cannot part with George as I have a moral obligation to take care of him, but would tell anyone selling these birds what I think of them - and for such a person to rant at people on this forum is hypocrisy. Like a slave trader lecturing slave owners on how to treat slaves. A stay at home welfare recipient breeding CAGs for profit... that is the picture.

He is a vendor of custom made bird stands. Get off your soap box.

 

[Shezbug]

Wow just wow! Talk about starting off with a bang!

I see we have a member who is gonna teach us all a lot. Of what? I’m not really sure lol.
Not really looking forward to reading anymore of what this person has to share as its odd, outdated and just wrong- also seems to come from someone with power and control issues. Maybe poor social skills too going on how rude these first few posts are.

I’ll stick to qualified bird behaviourists and vets to get my advice- which just so happens to be the same kind of advice I always get from the trusted members here. I hope @Sanaa does the same for their bird.
I remember at my first bird vet visit being told by my vet to towel train my bird even though there are very few times you’d ever want to towel a bird and all of them have to do with medical and extremely rare safety reasons. I guess she had no clue....... wish this new member had of joined sooner.

Sorry for the sarcasm everyone however this is this most unappealing attitude I think I’ve come across in a long time with my first coffee of the day

 

[JLcribber]

I had a read of that... and once again, an amateur who thinks they are some kind of scientific expert on birds. Everything she said is internet drivel. And anyone who is a VENDOR of parrots - sorry, but how they sleep at night I do not know. If people could sell baby dolphins and tell you that a backyard pool is home enough, they would, and go on forums lecturing people on dolphin behaviour. Parrots should not be allowed to be sold as pets. Owning one and dealing with 'vendors' who feign love for animals makes me sick. they love the money they make by perpetuating the confinement of these creatures. And seeing all the parrots that end up in parrot rescue or birds for rehoming is proof enough these animals are not pet material. Great for you and me - we have a cool animal. What about if you were a bird - would you agree with seeing your species being sold and housed in cages? Conures - they can fly around. Large intelligent birds can't. A rant from a so-called expert/vendor/avian trafficker does not sway me. Puppy mill owners are not animal lovers, they are animal exploiters. So are bird mill owners, and shame on anyone trafficking CAGs/et al. If you sell birds for profit, then I side with PETA all the way. I cannot part with George as I have a moral obligation to take care of him, but would tell anyone selling these birds what I think of them - and for such a person to rant at people on this forum is hypocrisy. Like a slave trader lecturing slave owners on how to treat slaves. A stay at home welfare recipient breeding CAGs for profit... that is the picture.

Thanks for having totally backward conclusions about me. I am the LOUDEST most anti-breeder/seller advocate on this forum and have been since its beginning more than a decade ago. You know nothing about me or my convictions. Your method comes from a small closed outdated mind. Enlighten yourself.

 

[aooratrix]

There is not scientific data ANYWHERE linking parrots and dominance. As far as we know, they don't even perceive dominance. If you study/research wild flock dynamics, you'll see there is not a flock boss, herd stallion, or matriarch.

Contemporary animal behaviorists HAVE proven that force is not an effective means of establishing a long term relationship based on trust with any animal. Sally Blanchard advocated crap like toweling, evil eyes, and earthquakes, so you're in good company.

 

[BertAllen]

@john frum Please stay home and self isolate as we don't need this vitriol here.

 

[Snowghost]

Did it ever occur to you @john frum that the reason George is plucking it because you stress him out by toweling him? Parrots are not human, George doesn't know that biting his bad, its a natural defense for him. George does not think biting is wrong and is being punished for it, parrots don't think like we do. Your advice is incorrect. A vet can towel a bird quickly administer tests etc. Do know why vets do not have the owner do the toweling? Because they know that the bird will not forget who did this to them and old a grudge. I know, I worked for a vet.

We may not be Avian Vets or ornithologists, we are however people with years of experience with parrots. Using this type of training, on any animal does not make the animal respect you, it instills fear! You claim to be upset about a bird being confined to a cage, how do you think George feels when you "discipline" him and place him in is cage for an hour or two?

 

[JoJo&Loki]

Overtake, overpower, scold, ignore. Those were the words you used. Now you’re saying you disagree with how others handle their birds. I feel sorry for your bird Obviously you can “overpower” him, he is a BIRD. Have you ever tried positive reinforcement? It works wonders and feels amazing as you create a bond with a bird that is born of mutual RESPECT.

He is a vendor of custom made bird stands. Get off your soap box.

I spit out my coffee when I read that @JLcribber was a breeder or “bird vendor”!

 

[Pockets]

The irony of an armchair expert going on a harangue about armchair experts is not lost on me. This hurt my brain.

OP, please show your parrot lots of love (as I'm sure you're already doing) and try the T-perch method. I feel confident that it will work. For the couch chewing - maybe your lil' friend would love some super sturdy chew toys! Maybe a toy with chewable leather straps would be as satisfying as the couch!

Wishing you lots of luck and unbitten fingers! Keep us posted.

 

[Sanaa]

Well hello to you! Safe and sound here, and you?
To start off with, greys are very inquisitive creatures. They study things that sparks their interests. They usually don't take no for an answer.
If they choose to do something, they're going to do it. I have a grey, a tag, but none the less same attitude as a cag. And had 2 others in past, tag and cag. Old age took them.
There's a lot of good advice here in this thread, so don't be shy to try it all. Because what works for one, may not work for another. Thing about a grey, they are thinkers, they'll try to outsmart you.
I'm not kidding.
In your case, he's biting mainly because your taking away his "fun". His way of saying " go way
I'm having fun here. "
What breaks those habits is to find similar items to draw his attention. For example, my grey has this annoying habit of attacking phone when it rings. Goes mental on it. Sooooo, I found this toy phone in thrift store that looks similar. What fun he has now. Leather sofa, lol...I have same problem... I went to hobby lobby and got a sheet of leather and made a mini sofa... ( trust me it looks like crap, I'm no furniture maker) it's a couple feet wide. He chews that till he gets bored.
I would also invest in a couple more perches or play stands. One is never enough with a grey.
I have 7.. 2 of those are play gyms. Why? Because a grey likes to fly from one to the other. Because if you don't, they'll start landing on lamp shades, your flat screen tv, or whatever. The biting will stop once you introduce more fun things. Get a large Tupperware tub, a foot by a foot and fill it with all your used toys of your grey, even safe plastic. Place near or in his gym/ perch. They'll go to it.
Try a paper grocery bag, put toys or plastic golf balls in it... Grey's love that. They're like a cat when it comes to that. Wad up paper, place it in cage or perch...Grey's love playing catch with paper balls.
Hope this helps....

thank you so much this really puts things in perspective ill get more toys and a gym for sure.

 

[Sanaa]

Use a heavy towel, and overtake and overpower him and let him know who is boss. If he bites, towel him, scold him, put him in his cage and ignore him for a while. I have a male CAG 5 years old and have had him since he was about 3 months old (I had to feed him formula and was home for a couple months to do so multiple times daily) and he has bitten me in the past, but now, rarely does, and knows I can overpower him anytime. Avian vets handle CAGs - watch an avian vet handle a grey with a towel and do the same. Remember you are hundreds of times heavier and more powerful so let him know it and the biting will stop.

Are u sure? what if he starts to hate me :/

 

[Sanaa]

h

Sheikhoo doesn't have disipline issues, he is just doing what is most reinforcing. Being on the floor/chewing the sofa/chewing plastic items are all highly reinforcing. The appearance of your hand at these times is not reinforcing because he has learned you are going to remove him from these fun activities. Plus, if the hand perserveres in trying to make him step up, biting is his last resort way of saying "no!" He has given you plenty of body language before the bite to say "no", but you are ignoring it. No wonder you get bitten.

Think about how you can make other more suitable activities reinforcing. Cover the sofa with a throw, provide chewable toys (because he likes chewing) and play gyms. Make it reinforcing for him to interact with you. Make it reinforcing for him to step up every time so that he will step up more in the future. And yes, if you have to remove him from something quickly use a hand held perch... but you need to teach him to step up on it first... using... positive reinforcement!

hmm okay ill keep this in mind

 

[Shezbug]

Are u sure? what if he starts to hate me :/

I think just going by your response you feel the answer to this in your gut. There have been some great responses to your issue like the one you got from Fuzzy for example. How are things going for you?

 

[tka]

Disregard anything that john frum posted. Pure bad advice.