Quaker with PDD, any advice is welcome

[BluQuaker]

So i alredy wrote about Charlie's journey on other post New to forum- Problems with Quaker
Basically he had some problems with ear infection and candida but even after treatment didn't imrpove so vet decided to test him for Borna virus and x ray showed PDD.
I still can't accept the fact he got terminal diagnosis at such a young age ( he is about to turn 1 in few weeks).
I would like to try to imrpove his condition and have as much time as possible with him.
Right now situation is quite bad, he can only eat rice, pasta, chia seeds and eggs without throwing up.
He is only 114g... used to be 136g.
He still enjoyes to cuddle and play on his good days.
Please if you have any experience with this illness suggest me some food i can add to his diet. Also if you have any other advice.
Also one ugly question that's constantly on my mind, how long he can live with this condition? Information on web is very contradictory. My vet on the other hand hopes if we get his weight back we can have him even for years, on therapy and proper diet.

 

[Xoetix]

I don't know much about it myself, but I have to wonder - Even if you're able to get his weight back up, a diet like that isn't sustainable and would result in nutrient deficiencies, which in turn could result in kidney and/or liver function issues. Can your vet tell if he's in any pain?

 

[BluQuaker]

I don't know much about it myself, but I have to wonder - Even if you're able to get his weight back up, a diet like that isn't sustainable and would result in nutrient deficiencies, which in turn could result in kidney and/or liver function issues. Can your vet tell if he's in any pain?

We did discussed nutrient deficiencies, and what he think is, he should be on this diet only while illness is active but if he goes in remission as we hope we can reintroduce pellets, veggies and seeds since he will be able to digest those properly.
About pain, right now he doesn't think so but it's possible his condition goes in that direction he develops neurogical problems and pain in which case we should consider euthanasia.

 

[AussieBird]

I am sorry about the diagnosis

Bornavirus treatments

Our young B&G macaw has been diagnosed with bornavirus. We have had success treating his digestive symptoms with metoclopramide syrup. Vomiting ended and he regained all the weight he had lost + more. His neurological symptoms, ( unsteady on his feet, falling etc) are now being treated by Onsior...

forums.avianavenue.com

Other posts by this member may also prove helpful to you, wishing you and you baby all the best

 

[BluQuaker]

I am sorry about the diagnosis

Bornavirus treatments

Our young B&G macaw has been diagnosed with bornavirus. We have had success treating his digestive symptoms with metoclopramide syrup. Vomiting ended and he regained all the weight he had lost + more. His neurological symptoms, ( unsteady on his feet, falling etc) are now being treated by Onsior...

forums.avianavenue.com

Other posts by this member may also prove helpful to you, wishing you and you baby all the best

Oh i see, thank you so much

 

[Parutti]

I volunteer at a sanctuary that has several parrots with PDD, some for many years now. They have different medication regimes and a couple have restricted/special diets, but only a couple even have noticeable symptoms. So don't give up hope just yet!

 

[BluQuaker]

I volunteer at a sanctuary that has several parrots with PDD, some for many years now. They have different medication regimes and a couple have restricted/special diets, but only a couple even have noticeable symptoms. So don't give up hope just yet!

Thank you so much your reply really made my day. I will for sure do everything i can to give him a proper life, and reaserch this illness as much as possible. Today he really wanted to stole some strawberries from garden but i didn't let him His doctor said better not to let him just yet since he just started therapy. But it's a good sign he is showing interest in food again.

 

[MommyBird]

The way to avoid nutritional deficiencies is to add LaFeber's Emeraid Omnivore for a good part of the diet.
The vet needs to order it, it is a powder you mix with water and feed with a syringe.
He should also be on Celebrex, that is a standard treatment.
Yes birds can live for years with it, especially if caught early. no guarantees though.
see also Living with PDD/AG | ThinkParrot
@Fuzzy

 

[Fuzzy]

I’m so very sorry Charlie has PDD/AG. Yes please, read my article about Ollie. And certainly look at the videos at the end with Dr Bob Dahlhausen and Susan Orosz - both the leading experts on the disease/virus. Also join the Facebook group I also mention - they are so helpful. As Mommybird said, please get Emeraid Omnivore for him. The latest about Celebrex is that he should be given the liquid Celebrex rather than as I was doing, making up a solution by crushing tablets. Apparently the tablets are not as effective. I believe that info is in the latest video.

 

[BluQuaker]

The way to avoid nutritional deficiencies is to add LaFeber's Emeraid Omnivore for a good part of the diet.
The vet needs to order it, it is a powder you mix with water and feed with a syringe.
He should also be on Celebrex, that is a standard treatment.
Yes birds can live for years with it, especially if caught early. no guarantees though.
see also Living with PDD/AG | ThinkParrot
@Fuzzy

Oh thank you so much i will mention it to my vet this afternoon when we have check up. He is on Celebrex, i forgot to mention it. Also thank you for the link i didn't come across it i will take a look.

 

[BluQuaker]

I’m so very sorry Charlie has PDD/AG. Yes please, read my article about Ollie. And certainly look at the videos at the end with Dr Bob Dahlhausen and Susan Orosz - both the leading experts on the disease/virus. Also join the Facebook group I also mention - they are so helpful. As Mommybird said, please get Emeraid Omnivore for him. The latest about Celebrex is that he should be given the liquid Celebrex rather than as I was doing, making up a solution by crushing tablets. Apparently the tablets are not as effective. I believe that info is in the latest video.

Thank you so much for your reply, I did just read story about Ollie, what a precious little baby he was .
It was such a bittersweet moment seeing him stealing strawberries since it's Charlie's favorite thing to do. It was very helpful. It's also very good point since right now Charlie is getting tablets. I will mention that as well to my vet. We will make sure to get him get Emeraid Omnivor. I don't have facebook but i will make accaunt later and look for it. This morning was difficult he
regurgitated small amount of food. Later when i measure him he was 116g which is I guess better than yesterday's 114.
I can't stop wondering if Charlie got virus from his mother after watching that video with Dr Bob Dahlhausen and Susan Orosz. I also feel so guilty since he got that stupid ear infection and maybe it triggered his condition.
Your babies are so cute

This is Charlie this morning, i let him spend as much time as i can outside. I know he looks very messy, but he dose groom himself, he is just messy eater and after that episode of vomiting he seemed to have an apetite and had his breakfast by himself.
This afternoon we will go see vet and discuss everything.

.

 

[Deleted member 57370]

How did the vet visit go?
Wishing Charlie an improvement and stabilization.

I'm glad we have members with experience to help guide you.

Warmth is always supportive. I recommend getting a sweeter Heater , the smallest size is more than enough. It's radiant heat , not a light , and bird safe. It hangs outside the cage , and I out a perch next to it inside the cage so my bird can choose to be bu it or move away. Extra warmth is very supportive even in a home with normal temperature. I'm in Florida sbd I use it ! My elderly bird always has it in these days , and very much enjoys it.

The diet worries me as well. I'd check about the diet mentioned, as well as baby bird formula which is easy to digest and complete nutrition. Discussed with your veterinarian.

Be cautious with rice. I would only use fresh made. Even in the fridge rice grows bacteria quickly and birds are more sensitive to that than humans.

I'm not experienced with this virus directly. But there are instances of birds converting , no longer testing positive or having active infections with some of these " bad" viruses.

 

[Fuzzy]

Thank you so much for your reply, I did just read story about Ollie, what a precious little baby he was .
It was such a bittersweet moment seeing him stealing strawberries since it's Charlie's favorite thing to do. It was very helpful. It's also very good point since right now Charlie is getting tablets. I will mention that as well to my vet. We will make sure to get him get Emeraid Omnivor. I don't have facebook but i will make accaunt later and look for it. This morning was difficult he
regurgitated small amount of food. Later when i measure him he was 116g which is I guess better than yesterday's 114.
I can't stop wondering if Charlie got virus from his mother after watching that video with Dr Bob Dahlhausen and Susan Orosz. I also feel so guilty since he got that stupid ear infection and maybe it triggered his condition.
Your babies are so cute

This is Charlie this morning, i let him spend as much time as i can outside. I know he looks very messy, but he dose groom himself, he is just messy eater and after that episode of vomiting he seemed to have an apetite and had his breakfast by himself.
This afternoon we will go see vet and discuss everything.

View attachment 428610 View attachment 428611 .

Poor Charlie - how sweet that he steals strawberries like Ollie used to. Please try not to feel guilty - who knows when or why the virus got activated - it might even be surging hormones as he grows up (that in itself is a stressful time for the body). Ollie didn't really like the Emeraid Omnivore but he would eat Harrison’s Recovery Formula, so I'd mix the two together. Just giving you another option if you can't get the Emeraid or if Charlie doesn't like it. You could also mix some digestive enzymes (I used to use Prozyme as recommended by a kind soul here) into the food you give him. Emeraid Omnivore and Harrison's Recovery Formula are better than baby formula re the nutrients they provide for an adult bird, but baby formula is certainly better than nothing.

 

[BluQuaker]

How did the vet visit go?
Wishing Charlie an improvement and stabilization.

I'm glad we have members with experience to help guide you.

Warmth is always supportive. I recommend getting a sweeter Heater , the smallest size is more than enough. It's radiant heat , not a light , and bird safe. It hangs outside the cage , and I out a perch next to it inside the cage so my bird can choose to be bu it or move away. Extra warmth is very supportive even in a home with normal temperature. I'm in Florida sbd I use it ! My elderly bird always has it in these days , and very much enjoys it.

The diet worries me as well. I'd check about the diet mentioned, as well as baby bird formula which is easy to digest and complete nutrition. Discussed with your veterinarian.

Be cautious with rice. I would only use fresh made. Even in the fridge rice grows bacteria quickly and birds are more sensitive to that than humans.

I'm not experienced with this virus directly. But there are instances of birds converting , no longer testing positive or having active infections with some of these " bad" viruses.

Oh my thank you so much! You always have very helpful advices for us! Also thank you for warm wishes. I'm getting him Heater. He is alredy on baby bird formula i forgot to mention it and it didn't cause him any problems so far.
About rice... i had no idea, i gotta be more careful with it.
Yesterday I talked with his vet about it and we decided to reduce rice intake a little and give him more boiled sweet potatoes and pumpkin and see how it goes. He was happy with his poop and even tho he lost huge amount of weight he consider him to be skinny but in ''good shape''. This morning he was 117g so we are slowly going up.
For now we won't do any blood tests to stress him just try to introduce more food switch to liquid celebrex.

 

[BluQuaker]

Poor Charlie - how sweet that he steals strawberries like Ollie used to. Please try not to feel guilty - who knows when or why the virus got activated - it might even be surging hormones as he grows up (that in itself is a stressful time for the body). Ollie didn't really like the Emeraid Omnivore but he would eat Harrison’s Recovery Formula, so I'd mix the two together. Just giving you another option if you can't get the Emeraid or if Charlie doesn't like it. You could also mix some digestive enzymes (I used to use Prozyme as recommended by a kind soul here) into the food you give him. Emeraid Omnivore and Harrison's Recovery Formula are better than baby formula re the nutrients they provide for an adult bird, but baby formula is certainly better than nothing.

Thank you so much. We ordered him Emeraid Omnivore it will take some time to arrive him tho. For now he is on baby formula among other things. We will slowly introduce boiled sweet popatoes and pumpkin. Prozyme is very good suggestion we will also add that! Charlie seems to be gaining weight and generally more interested in food. He still has many naps during the day but when he is active he is very active.
Oh that's interesting point, he dose goes through puberty right now, so maybe it's also hormones.

 

[Deleted member 57370]

Oh my thank you so much! You always have very helpful advices for us! Also thank you for warm wishes. I'm getting him Heater. He is alredy on baby bird formula i forgot to mention it and it didn't cause him any problems so far.
About rice... i had no idea, i gotta be more careful with it.
Yesterday I talked with his vet about it and we decided to reduce rice intake a little and give him more boiled sweet potatoes and pumpkin and see how it goes. He was happy with his poop and even tho he lost huge amount of weight he consider him to be skinny but in ''good shape''. This morning he was 117g so we are slowly going up.
For now we won't do any blood tests to stress him just try to introduce more food switch to liquid celebrex.

Ahh so glad to hear! I wanted to recommend sweet potato and pumpkin but was worried there was some issue with fiber content and thst why your vet hadn't recommended it. So glad to hear they did !!! Very glad to hear baby bird formula is already part of the diet!

Yay! Seem like real weight gain trend !!

 

[Deleted member 57370]

I can't find my original source of parrot sensitivity to stored rice Bacillus cereus bacteria toxins .

But this is a good reminder article that humans also should not eat stored cooked rice past the one day mark ..

Can reheating rice cause food poisoning?

You can get food poisoning from eating reheated rice. However, it's not the reheating that causes the problem, but the way the rice has been stored before it is reheated.

www.nhs.uk

.

Excerpt:

" Tips on serving rice safely

• Ideally, serve rice as soon as it has been cooked.
• If that is not possible, cool the rice as quickly as possible (ideally within 1 hour).
• Keep rice in the fridge for no more than 1 day until reheating.
• When you reheat rice, always check that it's steaming hot all the way through.
• Do not reheat rice more than once. "