Pulmonary Hypertensive Syndrome - Revisited

[jmfleish]

I think we can all agree on two things:

1) there is definitely something happening when power down species are kept with New World species

2) we don't have a good understanding of the mechanisms leading to these deaths

Asking questions to clarify isn't an attack, or a denial that *something* is going on. It is important to ask questions like "why doesn't this happen with air sac mites" - is it a question of scale, is it something to do with where powder down can get in an affected bird's system, is there some kind of biochemical interaction going on, does powder down provoke an immune response that air sac mites don't? At this stage, I think we're pushing at the limits of our knowledge.

Understanding the mechanisms involved may also help us with husbandry best practice, and may help us with managing the conditions. There isn't a clearcut distinction between conditions that are always fatal vs those that are chronic but can be managed. Look at something like HIV/AIDS. In the 1980s, it was a death sentence. If you don't have access to antiretroviral therapy, it's still a death sentence. If you do have access to ART, you can live a long and health life with HIV. It all depends on whether you have some kind of medication to control the condition.

If I won the lottery I'd love to throw money at this problem and fund a multimillion pound research project, but sadly that's unlikely to happen!

It isn't all New World species. I have Cockatoos and greys and Amazons and have for years (and two Ekkies) and have had absolutely no problems at all. I had a wonderful Patagonian Conure about a decade ago maybe longer. I was well aware that B&Gs were at risk for PHS but I had no idea that Conures could be too. I learned the hard way and almost killed my Patty. At first we didn't know what was going on and my vets thought she had Asper. We finally figured it out and I had to rehome her. The only thing that saved her life was my understanding of PHS and my willingness to let her go to a new home. She lived with her new family with issues for a few more years and was dearly loved but the damage was done. I will never, and I repeat, never have dusty birds with Conures or any kind of Macaw ever again. Feel free to read my story and learn from me or take your chances...the life lessons can be heart breaking.

 

[Lady Jane]

just follow the precautions and everything should be fine.

A few years back one of the admin here lost a Macaw to this condition from having one African Grey in the flock. In a different room I believe and with air filtration systems running. The veterans of AA will remember this.

 

[Mantis64]

A few years back one of the admin here lost a Macaw to this condition from having one African Grey in the flock. In a different room I believe and with air filtration systems running. The veterans of AA will remember this.

Ok I wasn't aware of this information thankyou.

 

[Lady Jane]

@jmfleish that's the thing about this, the damage to the respiratory system does not get better. Lung damage is lung damage. Like COPD in humans it does not get better or repair itself.

 

[Mantis64]

Do you guys think I'm a liar or an excuse maker. Someone has private message me this and I'm so upset.

If this is what people think of me on this forum I may as well leave.

 

[jmfleish]

@jmfleish that's the thing about this, the damage to the respiratory system does not get better. Lung damage is lung damage. Like COPD in humans it does not get better or repair itself.

Absolutely! It's very, very similar to COPD! Would anyone today be dumb enough to pick up a cigarette knowing anything about COPD or having a family member suffering from it? Ok, maybe a dumb question as some of the younger crowd doesn't seem to learn very easily but if you are diagnosed with COPD and you smoke the first thing you're going to do is quite smoking. just like COPD, PHS never goes away or gets better...you treat it the best you can until it kills you (or the bird) and dying from COPD is like drowning in your own bodily fluids...I'm guessing the same is true for PHS.

 

[RainbowFlo]

Do you guys think I'm a liar or an excuse maker. Someone has private message me this and I'm so upset.

If this is what people think of me on this forum I may as well leave.

Not at all! I value your opinion and your quite helpful . Plus, then how would we get pictures of Cosmo

 

[Aoi♡]

Yes this disease is very fatal hence the reason why you shouldn't house new and old world species together.

Yes good ventilation and airfilters help to lessen it except using air filters is not a 100% saftey garantee which is why it is best to rehome one of your birds for the saftey and wellbeing of my flock I would defintley do so.

 

[Mantis64]

Yes this disease is very fatal hence the reason why you shouldn't house new and old world species together.

Yes good ventilation and airfilters help to lessen it except using air filters is not a 100% saftey garantee which is why it is best to rehome one of your birds for the saftey and wellbeing of my flock I would defintley do so.

What about if they housed one of the birds upstairs and one downstairs with air fliters around the house would this still not be effective.

 

[Ali]

What about if they housed one of the birds upstairs and one downstairs with air fliters around the house would this still not be effective.

I would say the powder down one downstairs with a humidifier to keep dust down. Also an airfilter.

 

[Karen]

What about if they housed one of the birds upstairs and one downstairs with air fliters around the house would this still not be effective.

It wouldn't. It is recommended that they not share the same air space. The powder down in so fine it travels the air currents and through heating and air conditioning ducts.

Is there a specific reason that you're insistent that housing these two types of birds together can be safe?

 

[hrafn]

Do you guys think I'm a liar or an excuse maker. Someone has private message me this and I'm so upset.

If this is what people think of me on this forum I may as well leave.

If someone is using the PM system to insult or belittle you, report it to the site admin. That's not acceptable and is very much against the rules.

 

[Ali]

If someone is using the PM system to insult or belittle you, report it to the site admin. That's not acceptable and is very much against the rules.

Agreed

 

[Mantis64]

It wouldn't. It is recommended that they not share the same air space. The powder down in so fine it travels the air currents and through heating and air conditioning ducts.

Is there a specific reason that you're insistent that housing these two types of bird together can be safe?

Nope I'm just putting myself in the persons shoes who is being told to rehome one of her birds. I understand this disease that is fatal and an wondering if there is another way other than having to rehome one of thier birds. I would be heart broken.

 

[Ali]

Nope I'm just putting myself in the persons shoes who is being told to rehome one of her birds. I understand this disease that is fatal and an wondering if there is another way other than having to rehome one of thier birds. I would be heart broken.

Maybe a garden building for one of them?

 

[Mantis64]

If someone is using the PM system to insult or belittle you, report it to the site admin. That's not acceptable and is very much against the rules.

l

If someone is using the PM system to insult or belittle you, report it to the site admin. That's not acceptable and is very much against the rules.

I have reported them.

 

[Mantis64]

Maybe a garden building for one of them?

Yep the dusty one. Good idea ali.

 

[Ali]

Yep the dusty one. Good idea ali.

Thanks! Expensive but better than death of another bird

 

[Aoi♡]

Nope I'm just putting myself in the persons shoes who is being told to rehome one of her birds. I understand this disease that is fatal and an wondering if there is another way other than having to rehome one of thier birds. I would be heart broken.

I would not be heartbroken or upset at all I would gladly rehome if it garanteed the saftey of my flock.

Of course the bird I rehome would go into a loving home and would be greatly taken care off.

Or are you saying this because you can't find a good home and inregard will treat your rehome badly?

 

[Ali]

Or are you saying this because you can't find a good home and inregard will treat your rehome badly?

He isn't rehoming anything.