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Pixie's Plan Preventing egg Production

Pixiebeak

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Planning now on preventing Phoebe and Pikachu producing possible egg.
Potentially plummeting pesky hormones. Procedures permitting.

The pixies, past producers
IMG_20231106_143449441.jpg

Presenting proof
IMG_20230506_110513505.jpg

Previously Phoebe laid one egg prior to turning 6 months old . Passed over the the following year . Peaked this year providing me with plenty!
(~8)

Pikachu presented egg bound around 10:30 pm pretty early in July. Profoundly shocking me . Very serious and life threatening, significant blood loss and development of infection. Probably didn't cover this , priority was my hospitalized mom. My precious Avian veterinarian worked closely with me. I was able to get her stabilized, and fast acting azithromycin got her past the infection quickly. Before I had to leave for weeks when my mom was transferred to a far away hospital..
She laid one more egg , just prior to my return.

Paranoid proactive planning presently.

Past my bedtime, patience. More to follow
 
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Shezbug

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Definitely following!!
 

Pixiebeak

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Definitely following!!
You are the one who gave me the playful push to create this!! :D;)

Can I ask you to link the awesome article you sent me here? Even if it's in other posts , it's good stuff to keep sharing on hormones.
 

Pixiebeak

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There are a lot of factors affecting hormones, internal, external, environmental, pair bonds, physical touching bird erogenous zones .

Some parrot species are more to prone to egg laying/chronic egg laying, tho any female can with or without a mate. Some well known ones lean heavily to the Australian species , cockatiel, cockatoo, and budgies. Luv birds. Male Amazons are known for hormonal aggression . Caque for territory and hormonal aggression. Tho not chronic egg layers , I tend to hear more egg binding stories in African greys and Amazon parrots often their first egg at an older age 5-10 years plus.

In my 2 green cheek females , Ta-dah 10yrs no eggs thus far. My first green cheek lived for 17 years, she only laid eggs once. Shortly after getting my second green cheek Ta-dah, they bonded. Then Burt the bird laid 4 eggs at ten years old just a month or so after getting Ta-dah. Then Burt never laid any again during her remaining 7 years of life.

Phoebe my quaker, laid her first egg before she was 6 months old. Then one again at 2 years old. Then this year at 3 1/2 she laid spring through late summer at weird intervals, she did 2 sets of 2, then some singles. Letting her brood, didn't deter her , once she lost interest and they were pulled at some point she would lay again.

This year a pair bond developed between Pikachu and Phoebe. Previously they were just friends. Pikachu was trying to bond more with Penny previously. See the space between Pikachu and Phoebe, the closer perching between Pikachu and Penny( green) this was typical. There would always be a little space between Phoebe and Pikachu when perching. Except for some preening times.
20230214_090059.jpg
Another example of space left ,this is friend space .
20230114_092856~2.jpg
Friend spacing
20220406_103421.jpg
Example of Pikachu attempts with Penny
20220131_094316.jpg

Then the switch between Pikachu and Phoebe. Started always perching mushed up together
IMG_20231013_123907431~2.jpg

Tho Pikachu maintaining visiting and close sitting with Penny.

But the norm became this
IMG_20231011_104112342.jpg

I think this bond is what triggered Pikachu to lay her first egg at 6yrs old . Being her first at an older age probably played a role in the egg binding. She is on an excellent diet of veggie, pellets and seeds. The egg was normal size and shell. Her second egg 3 weeks later she passed with no issues, and had no interest in sitting on it.

So I have no plans to be cruel and separate these two. They each have their own cage , and sleep each in their own cage . But are out together with flock .
 

Pixiebeak

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But I am planning now to do all I can to discourage eggs next spring !!!

I just talked with my avian veterinarian about this. Because anytime there are eggs there is a risk of egg binding. After the emergency egg binding in Pikachu were I could have lost her. I'm highly motivated to do all I can to reduce hormones.

My veterinarian suggested switching them to 15 hours of light a day , starting now , and for always, year around. She suggested a floor lamp on a timer by their two cages . She said this has been very successful. Matching the longest daylight hours of the species natural range. That the changing daylight hours plays a big role in triggering.

As this is kinda new to most of us from what we have heard regarding light hours. I'm designated guinea pig!!!! I'm putting out to the universe that this will work! That this might become a tool for others!

We also discussed the other things I'm going to be doing. Like no soft warm foods spring and summer. Of course no petting back. No offering nest site. Moving the cages and re arrangements, and novel objects , during spring and summer, I will keep doing this. Increasing exercise, more flight recall in home. Working on more foraging and mental stimulation. Probably taking them out for walks in travel cages. They already eat half their diet as veggies, but will increase them, and decrease pellets and seeds slightly. Monitoring weights of course!!!
 

AussieBird

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Pixiebeak

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I'm kinda freaked out, thinking of my birds being up in the evening, which is normally my quiet time ....15 hours yikes , my ears

Tomorrow I get my timer and lamp
 

owlsthetic

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I'm kinda freaked out, thinking of my birds being up in the evening, which is normally my quiet time ....15 hours yikes , my ears

Tomorrow I get my timer and lamp
Haha good luck! Maybe the birds will slow down a bit by evening and you'll still get some quiet time :D
 

Parutti

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I'm so curious if they will take advantage of the party time or if they'll try to roost anyway until they get used to it

Also wondering what Ta-Dah will think about mommy and me time being different than usual!:hmmm:
 

Pixiebeak

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Ha! For those that don't know, Ta-dah choose mommy and me , and no quakers :cautious:, at 8,pm or so. It's incredible important to her , and she gets very angry if we skip.

I keep thinking about this, I'm just going to have to do 14 hrs, that is the longest day at my location. While 15.5 hrs or so is the longest day were quakers native range is. If that fails by next spring ..I will go to the 15
 

Kassiani

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Ok, so I need a bit of help with hormonal males. Can you explain a bit more about why your vet thinks that long daylight hours are best? Mine had me plunge mine into 14 hours of dark instead of light.
 

Pixiebeak

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She said it has a greater affect in the brain , light affects the pineal gland . It's light regulated not dark regulated . That they had the most success with this.
Changing length of daylight hours is one of the big triggers . So yes I understand the theory if we keep a set ( # of hours ) the same that should work. But she said keeping a set longer day of light is what works.

She is boarded in zoo and avian med, and truly is a brilliant and dedicated individual. But I didn't ask for proof or question her expertise. I asked for her advice and help, and that's what she told me.

If what we have tried , with longer dark ,is not working. Then I'm going to try this longer light. And because this is different information, @Shezbug asked me to start a thread to journal and share . I've shared that I e got an egg problem. If next breeding season I don't have eggs , that will be pretty clear results. As I already do most of the other stuff to discourage eggs. Tho I will be putting even more effort into the other stuff too..

This isn't going to be a 100% cure all, fot all individuals or species. But something to do thst seems to have a higher impact .
 
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Kassiani

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Oh, I’m not questioning your vet’s expertise at all! I was just curious about the thoughts behind the suggestion. My vet is an exotics and zoo vet, but is not a CAV.
 

Pixiebeak

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She guest lectures and guest teaches exotic clinics as vet schools, and does global veterinarian consult, I think she is on the leading edge / up to date theory and practices.

A big thing she asked me to share every chance I get , because most vets haven't used yet or seem hesitant. Is Azithromycin ( antibiotic) for critical/ down birds when bacteria infect is suspected. It's so fast acting in birds they respond so well to it . Less likely to cause secondary yeast overgrowth . Given I dose every other day .
To get vets to stop reaching for baytril, which often causes nausea, almost always secondary yeast overgrowth, is not effective against clymadia ( a pretty common infection) and less effective against some other common bacterial infections.

I ve certainly experienced the miracle of azithromycin ! Down budgie from pasteurella(99% fatal) from cat bite to head rescue. Down quaker with sepsis from clymadia , she was pretty non responsive with already cooling extremities. Never in my life have I seen any animal in this stage of septic shock recover! She considered it a hail Mary for Penny , but told me it's saved bird close to this bad before. It saved Penny!! Tho we had to switch to doxycycline after finishing the azithromycin round , to clear the clymadia. Saved my budgie with salmonella diarrhea, who was also fluffed down bird who was to weak to stand stopped eating, was a rapid onset illness . I found him down with diarrhea, untamed just let me pick him up when found and put in hospital cage. Saved Pikachu ( quaker) who had post egg binding infection. Worked in Ta-dah green cheek beak crush injury
 
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owlsthetic

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She guest lectures and guest teaches exotic clinics as vet schools, and does global veterinarian consult, I think she is on the leading edge / up to date theory and practices.

A big thing she asked me to share every chance I get , because most vets haven't used yet or seem hesitant. Is Azithromycin ( antibiotic) for critical/ down birds when bacteria infect is suspected. It's so fast acting in birds they respond so well to it . Less likely to cause secondary yeast overgrowth . Given I dose every other day .
To get vets to stop reaching for baytril, which often causes nausea, almost always secondary yeast overgrowth, is not effective against clymadia ( a pretty common infection) and less effective against some other common bacterial infections.
Oh that's very interesting! Enrofloxicin (baytril) was what my CAV had prescribed for Pico's nare injury so I'll definitely have to share what your vet says with my vet the next time we go for a checkup!
 

Pixiebeak

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Oh that's very interesting! Enrofloxicin (baytril) was what my CAV had prescribed for Pico's nare injury so I'll definitely have to share what your vet says with my vet the next time we go for a checkup!
Baytril is broad spectrum, it is considered safe, and there organism it works great against. If culture is done, or vet feels likely will work against suspected organism. I'm not saying it should never be used.

But if unknown infection, just going to throw an antibiotic at it and see, or critical down bird, choose azithromycin.

Personally, for me and my birds I'm not going to give baytril. I'm pretty sure my vet is very rarely going to choose if there are other options. She definitely feels it is over used , and harsh on birds,less effective on more types of organisms that are likely to be causing infection in the bird. Takes longer to see results . When time is critical, I know she chooses azithromycin. Does cause tissue damage at injection site ( often I e witnessed back in olden days when was used more)
 
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Pixiebeak

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Welp
Some hiccups already.

My birds had been going to bed earlier, before I started my new light cycle. Right now I'm doing 6am-8pm of light . It was funny the first day they were not convinced, going to sleep anyway. But now are staying active till lights out.

But with Penny gone , the girls Pikachu and Phoebe are bonding even tighter. They are doing everything thing they can to be put up in the same cage at night. Pre staging themselves in the same cage at cage up time 6pm. Rushing the cage if I try to put one up first , the other is climbing in . Pitching a fit if I get one in. My Pikachu can open her cage from the outside, so she opens it they both go in , and one or the other even close the door behind them !!! Then they get real quiet like I won't notice!

Last night I just let them share a cage. They were so happy, but slept on opposite ends of the cage. This morning I left them caged longer as I have pet sitter duties, and just not feeling great , kidney stone. They didn't wake me up screaming, so nice! They really seemed to enjoy shared the cage, playing with toys, eating out of food dish together. No I'm bored screeching.

But when I let them out , went to ceiling fan , their hormonal spot.....and rubbing cloacas together...ughhh.....

I feel Ive triggered early spring with my light change from previous dark earlier, to now bright . ....ughh...just like nature and not enough time yet at set longer year round day


With the bad timing of girl girl bond....
 

Pixiebeak

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So....do I let them share a cage when I lock them up? Feel free to share your thoughts, and or experience.

For me ,
pros no morning screaming.
Decreased vocals when caged during day cage breaks .
One less cage to clean!!!!
Birds seem happier

Cons , is this increasing hormones? Or would not matter much as spend the day together out . I don't care about accessory hormonal behavior because it doesn't affect my interactions with them , hasn't caused any aggression to flock so far. I only care about preventing eggs.
 
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