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PDD - Euthanize or Not?

Would you euthanize your bird if it tested positive for PDD?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • No

    Votes: 7 24.1%
  • I would follow my vet's advice

    Votes: 20 69.0%

  • Total voters
    29

petiteoiseau

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Yes, some people can't let go. That doesn't sound like they were doing it for the cockatoo. :( I feel the same way about giving chemo to any animal for cancer. They don't understand what's happening and can't make the decision to go through that so I don't agree with it. My friend who has had cancer and chemo said she wouldn't go through it again if it came back. That tells me we don't have the right to subject an animal to it. And usually it just prolongs their life a little.
Actually, chemo for dogs (I don't have any personal experience with chemo and other animals) doesn't affect them the way it does humans. It tires them out a bit and they might not eat as heartily as usual on some days, but that's about it - and it does save their lives. I have no problem with subjecting an animal to a treatment or a procedure that might be a bit painful or uncomfortable as long as there is a chance to cure it. It's when there is no hope and the animal has no quality of life that I don't see why people keep them alive... some say 'so they can die naturally' but, if you ask me, if there is pain, screw naturally! Have the animal humanely euthanized - and that means, in a comfortable setting, with me holding them, singing to them and telling them how good they are and how much I love them while they go to sleep with the anesthesia - and then, when they are fast asleep, the injection to stop their heart. I've lost count of how many animals I have had to put down because I also used to do it for the ones at the shelter (no other volunteer wanted to do it) and, no matter how many times I do it, it's still as hard as it ever was but I would not have it any other way...
 

Milo

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I'm on my stupid phone but have to ask...
how are we testing to determine pdd? That would make a large difference in answers. Abv does not mean pdd
There isn't a test to determine PDD. A crop biopsy or a biopsy of the proventriculus would be the best method to look for characteristic lesions but even that test is flawed. A positive is a positive but a negative doesn't mean anything. Even the test for ABV isn't that great, and you are correct in that ABV doesn't automatically mean PDD. My CAV went to a conference right around the time Wyatt passed away and when he came back he said that he went to a few talks on the subject and the gist was "we still don't know anything".
 

DQTimnehs

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I'm on my stupid phone but have to ask...
how are we testing to determine pdd? That would make a large difference in answers. Abv does not mean pdd


I definitely didn't mean just positive for ABV! I read your post about PDD/ABV and obviously not every bird with ABV gets PDD. Maybe I should have said "with symptoms and strongly suspected of having PDD".
 

95talongirl

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I'm on my stupid phone but have to ask...
how are we testing to determine pdd? That would make a large difference in answers. Abv does not mean pdd
You are correct. They use a combination of a positive abv test, with xrays and other physical symptoms to make the call. Unfortunately, pdd still cannot be positivaly diagnosed until after death. (Well, they can crop biposy, but its hit or miss, looking for the leisons, and very, very risky.)
 

95talongirl

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You all beat me too it. Hahah!
 

Mariannee

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Animals have taught me more and built more of my character than any human. They have been in my corner when I couldn't se a helpful human anywhere. I owe it to them to think of them first because they think of me first always. Animal stewardship is one of the greatest gifts the creator has ever bestowed upon me and for that I am grateful.
:D
 

thekarens

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My partner had a grey with PBFD. He was an only bird and she kept him until it was obvious he was suffering. She put him down when he was about 3. I'd do the same.
 

roxynoodle

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ABV, no. PDD at the point where quality of life was poor and the end was near, yes (and we were certain).
 

Sparky04

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Junior's been terminally ill (liver disease) for more than a year but with medicine she's hanging on and seems to be enjoying life still. If she defied the vet's expectation and continues to fight, why not as long as she's not suffering.
 

macawpower58

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I really don't know. I think my answer could go either way depending on circustances. I also am not sure how strong I'd be, though I pray I could do the right thing at the right time. I do know that we often don't know ourselves very well until traumatic circumstances happen. I've also never seen a bird with PDD and that may be affecting my answers. Perhaps if I knew what the bird was going threw I'd think different.

I know I kept trying different meds with little Gimli, even after the vets told me it'd be kinder to let him go. I just knew in my heart he'd fight and win. I was wrong. :( He lost. Did I prolong his suffering?

It's such a hard thing to answer until you're there. I'm not even sure there is a right answer.
 

VictoriaVague

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Only if it was suffering. My cat has congenital heart failure but she's happy and living a great quality of life.
 

Hrtofau2

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As long as he is not suffering I would do anything and everything in my power to keep him alive.
:agreed: :exactly:

As long as the animal was not suffering, I would fight as long as they did. Quality of life is the most important thing.
 

95talongirl

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Here is my favorite photo of Kimi. He was such a sweetheart despite his pain.
Btw, feather destructive behavior, specifically under the wings and chest can be indicative of abv. The viruscauses inflammation of the skin. My vet said something like 5 out of 6 birds displaying this type of plucking end up testing positive for abv.

That was something new to me.
 

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Macawnutz

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I definitely didn't mean just positive for ABV! I read your post about PDD/ABV and obviously not every bird with ABV gets PDD. Maybe I should have said "with symptoms and strongly suspected of having PDD".


I am aware you did not mean just postive for ABV and I should have wrote more to clarify, I was on my phone and it's near impossible to reply with. :hug8:

I just wanted to slip that in there as many people do not understand what the difference is and many vets will tell you a ABV test means PDD. :( I think this thread can be great education for some people. I had one of the best ACV's in WI tell me the ABV test was "the" test for PDD. At the time I did not know better and would have taken her word for it. Thank goodness I found the diagnoses for Korbel.... she would have wanted him put down. ( she did anyway and I did not listen ) ;)

It would come down to quality of life for me. I had to put my BG macaw Greg to sleep when I knew his life was filled with pain but I spent all the time and money I could to make sure the last few years of his life were the best. :)
 

Greycloud

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No matter what the illness, injury, disease, etc.. it comes down to pain, suffering and quality of life. I would not let my selfishness or love get in the way of making that decision.
 

Hankmacaw

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Hank and I fought so very long, so very hard, through countless challenges, and I am still grateful that he died at home with me beside him. He told me the day he died that he was tired and didn't want to fight any longer, so I did what was possible to make him as comfortable as possible - and he just quit living. His last afternoon was spent on his outside perch and he had one more opportunity to help the sun go down.

I don't care for euthanasia by a vet, because it is so stressful for the bird to just go to the vet. I want the loves of my life to die at home with the one they love, their familiar surroundings and without the stress of a programmed death. I can kill Jasper at home with less stress and more peace and love than a trip to the vet.

I guess that's just me and what I wish for myself.
 
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Yoshi&Reza

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Hank and I fought so very long, so very hard, through countless challenges, and I am still grateful that he died at home with me beside him. He told me the day he died that he was tired and didn't want to fight any longer, so I did what was possible to make him as comfortable as possible - and he just quit living. His last afternoon was spent on his outside perch and he had one more opportunity to help the sun go down.


:hug8:
 

Cara

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It depends on the quality of life. I waited one day too long with my heart dog, and I've always felt regret over that. It was horrible, and I wish he could have gone more peacefully.
 

jmfleish

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I don't think it matters what the disease is, in the end you have to decide what the quality of life is. We lost another one of our Serama chickens a little more than a week ago. I decided not to say anything because I couldn't deal with it. I feel like a failure where these chickens are concerned and Jon and I are waiting for the next one to drop. We can keep multiple parrots alive for years, but we can't get a chicken past 8 months of age. We had to take Maddie in to the UW's emergency care a week ago last Tuesday night because she couldn't breathe. I thought she was going to die right in my hands on the way there. She held on all night, we did a CT scan to see what was blocking her breathing and saw something that was blocking her trachea so decided to scope her but saw nothing there either. The vets said that it almost looked like her trachea was just collapsing on itself. We could have done surgery on her but the trachea on these chickens is so small that the scar tissue from the surgery was probably going to impede her breathing anyway and her quality of life after surgery was probably going to be worse than what it was before surgery. We choose to put her down and it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do...she was only six months old. Gross necropsy has shown nothing so we're waiting for the histopathology results.

For PDD, six or seven years ago, a bird that started showing signs that seemed like it might be PDD, many vets would automatically tell the owner to just put the bird down. I've heard horror stories of people doing so and then finding afterwards that it wasn't even PDD. We've come a long way and PDD is very treatable now and birds can live long lives, allbeit on very expensive drugs. I would never listen to any vet who told me to put down a bird unless that bird was in really bad condition and there didn't seem to be any hope and I had exhausted all possibilities. Like Sarah said, if she would have listened to the vets she had seen early on, she wouldn't have Korbel with her today. Sometimes you have to trust your gut.

I also wanted to say that when a bird is going downhill from PDD, it tends to happen pretty quickly. They stop eating within a matter of weeks and are gone in a month or two and succumb to the disease. You know when it's time to let go. I can't imagine any vet in the US or Canada who would be willing to rebuild a crop in a PDD supposed bird to give that bird a few more weeks. That vet should be sued.
 
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