Other mutations hidden behind Whiteface Lutino

[Squacco]

Hi there!

I was just wondering if there were any definitive methods of being able to tell the presence of Cinnamon if the gene cannot be seen.
We have a breeding pair of birds, Pika (m) and Bubble (f). Pika is a Whiteface Pearl Pied, split to Cinnamon and Lutino. Bubble is a Pearl Pied split to Whiteface. They had their first clutches in 2024, one clutch with one chick and the other with 3.
The first chick was a female Cinnamon Pearl Pied split to Whiteface (Squacco). Then a male Pearl Pied, unknown splitting (Eagle). Then a female Whiteface Lutino Pearl Pied, no splits (Lizzie). And a male Pearl Pied, unknown splits (Luca).

Here is a list of all possible mutations of a male whiteface pearl pied (split cinnamon and lutino) crossed with a female pearl pied (split to whiteface).



There are so many male Pearl Pieds and Whiteface Pearl Pieds with different splits, which is why I don't know Eagle and Sprot's splits.
So the chick I put in bold (Lizzie) is either a Cinnamon Whiteface Lutino Pearl Pied or a Whiteface Lutino Pearl Pied. And the thing I'm wondering is, is she cinnamon or not. Of course I cannot see any plumage differences, as whiteface removes all yellow/red pigmentation and lutino removes grey. And Lutino causes the eye (iris AND pupil) to appear red. I know Cinnamon can sometimes be told by a yellow flash in the pupil (I can see this in Squacco) but as Lizzie already has red eyes, I have no idea what she could be.

So I was wondering if any of you knew any reliable (or even unreliable ) methods of telling, as I don't really trust anything Google suggests.
And also I don't think going by the percentage probability of the mutations means anything. Cinnamon Pearl Pied has 0.375% chance of turning up and so far we've had one, and Pika and Bubble are rearing another one.

Thanks

 

[Karearea]

Hello! Unfortunately, I am not aware of any tricks one can use to identify a whiteface lutino with cinnamon. The removal of all melanin should theoretically make that impossible, you would have to breed her to know.

 

[Finchbreed]

That is the exciting and frustrating thing about splits.
Not knowing till they breed.
Sometimes not knowing till they breed the 5th or 6th time even.
Have had "oh dear" surprises turn up in my finches from time to time.
Mum has had "how the blue blazes did that happen" surprises turn up in her budgie nest boxes from time to time. You go back through the breeding record books and find that a particular bird had a great grand parent who was "insert whatever turned up" and that split gene has been lurking all that time without showing up.

 

[Karearea]

If you breed her with a cinnamon male, getting any cinnamon male offspring would mean she has the gene.

 

[Squacco]

Hello! Unfortunately, I am not aware of any tricks one can use to identify a whiteface lutino with cinnamon. The removal of all melanin should theoretically make that impossible, you would have to breed her to know.

That is the exciting and frustrating thing about splits.
Not knowing till they breed.
Sometimes not knowing till they breed the 5th or 6th time even.
Have had "oh dear" surprises turn up in my finches from time to time.
Mum has had "how the blue blazes did that happen" surprises turn up in her budgie nest boxes from time to time. You go back through the breeding record books and find that a particular bird had a great grand parent who was "insert whatever turned up" and that split gene has been lurking all that time without showing up.

If you breed her with a cinnamon male, getting any cinnamon male offspring would mean she has the gene.

Yeah, I think there's no chance of knowing. She's just a house pet really, we're never going to breed her. Thanks for your input all the same