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Opinions on BirdTricks?

AlisaL

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Alisa LaVine
Just watch one of their latest videos and you will see they still do this.
She took the poor frighten budgie’s food away and only offered millet from her hand, you do not see any other food offered till the next day.
:( I was watching the whole time hoping she’d give the poor thing his food back.
Sugar had access to high quality seed at all times. You're only seeing snippets of interactions over a 24 hour period.
 

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
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Just watch one of their latest videos and you will see they still do this.
She took the poor frighten budgie’s food away and only offered millet from her hand, you do not see any other food offered till the next day.
:( I was watching the whole time hoping she’d give the poor thing his food back.
They did that same horrible training technique with a dove or pigeon (can’t recall which one) and they made it very clear with their own descriptions and words that they were offering no other food than that which was offered from their hand.
I want my bird to come to me and be my friend because he wants to not because I’m his only food source.
 

AlisaL

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Alisa LaVine
You mention a lack of education imo teaching and education are two completely different things.
This forum educates me with real experience from peoples true experience.
If you are teaching you need to have a qualification ? Well thats my thoughts.
Chemistry doesnt have shades of grey, biology doesnt have shades of grey,nature doesnt have shades of grey.

I watched a load of there videos before i got my girl and will confess to being impressed however i discovered this forum and educated myself and will do going forward.

You might say chemistry,biology and nature is all based around physics and maths but im not Stephen Hawkings so i like to simplify things.

I have been a reefkeeper for a long time and see the same kind of reckless posters on youtube who havent got a clue.

Tanked on Discovery channel was massive did they know what they where doing ?
Or was it a money making business oppertunity ?
I'm not going to argue with you about absolutes. This is not the place.

Many, many good quality animal trainers have nothing more than experience learned over time through trial and error, and perhaps mentorship. I spent years in the dog world. Very few trainers have certifications yet win go to grounds and obedience trials, etc.

I'm not saying BT is perfect or even high quality, whatever that means. They are just like the rest of us. Human. Unfortunately they started way too young and took a very tiny amount of knowledge and ran with it instead of investing the time and energy into really honing their skills. It shows.

But I'm not willing to dismiss them so easily based on anecdotal evidence provided in a forum.
 

AlisaL

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Alisa LaVine
Fair play Shez

Anyone who dictates withholding food from any animal has clearly got issues you create a angry hostile animal.

I have seen it wirh reeftanks with high Po4 and algae outbreaks limit your food :bash: no up your game as the guardian of these stunning animals

And thats all we are guardians of these stunning birds who allow us into there worlds
I spent two years as a docent at one of the top 10 zoos in the country. And do you know what they did and every other certified zoo in the US does? Skipped meals! In the wild, especially for predators, many animals don't eat every day. Its actually detrimental to their health.

I'm not saying anyone should do anything so extreme with a pet. I don't agree with anything other than freefeeding parrots a diet of high quality pellets with smaller amounts of healthy vegetables, grains, legumes and seeds. Sprouted or otherwise. Especially with small birds whose metabolisms are ridiculously fast and efficient.

I think though that there's a real misconception about what BT means when they say withhold food. But I'm not willing to break it down here. You have reached your own conclusions and that's fine. You do you and I'll do me. And I bet in the end our feather babies will be equally loved and cared for.
 

AlisaL

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@AlisaL Are you willing to risk the welfare of your bird to "shades of grey" - I'm sure as heck not. Ten years may seem like a long time to you, but it is just a wink of an eye. Twenty five years ago I spotted the BT folks as hucksters and charlatans and I have not changed my mind. They have learned little if anything in those ten years. If you want truly expert bird advice here is a list of people who have been certified with their education (for the most part) and are recognized everywhere;

25 years ago JL was about 8 and Dave was 10 or 11 but I get the sentiment. I respect your passion.

I happily absorb great advice here and in many other places; including the names you referenced. I'm educated enough to think critically and weed through the crap. And watching other's mistakes is a great way to learn too. I guess I'm just not willing to dismiss knowledge so casually.
 

Wardy

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After the last post i gave them a google found there website absolute Bananas

1. Magician and magicians assistant
2. Food is the thing if you give your bird food you are not coming back from that it is the most important thing :banghead: absolute tripe enviroment is the most important thing if your envirement is not right your bird etc. wont feed.
3. We like to push the limits thats how we learn ( this is cut alongside a video of a parrot that they are training to free fly at the beach being chased by about a dozen gulls and they chuckle as they say the parrot landed on a sunbather yeah very funny )
4. Question was asked what was the toughest bird you had to train ? the man what toughest bird or toughest owner ??? Really you think you caan train people as well absolute clown i have a
5. i can go on the labafer site and get absolute ingredients and % of everything roudybush the same etc.etc .

absoulute garbage everything its dancing bears photos with monkeys on your holiday Mojo is part of my family and just need to get along together no more no less imo.
 

Wardy

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I spent two years as a docent at one of the top 10 zoos in the country. And do you know what they did and every other certified zoo in the US does? Skipped meals! In the wild, especially for predators, many animals don't eat every day. Its actually detrimental to their health.

I'm not saying anyone should do anything so extreme with a pet. I don't agree with anything other than freefeeding parrots a diet of high quality pellets with smaller amounts of healthy vegetables, grains, legumes and seeds. Sprouted or otherwise. Especially with small birds whose metabolisms are ridiculously fast and efficient.

I think though that there's a real misconception about what BT means when they say withhold food. But I'm not willing to break it down here. You have reached your own conclusions and that's fine. You do you and I'll do me. And I bet in the end our feather babies will be equally loved and cared for.
Break it down im fine with that my own conclusion is based on the info i have

i had to google docent to be fair cos i am really not that clever


what Zoo where you a docent at ? agree that animals dont always get food in the wild but my Mojo isnt in the wild is she

If you feel there is a misconception then break it down i have reached my own conclusions but always willing to change them based on good solid evidence im always willing to learn.

as a docent ( had to google it so learnt somthing allready ) i am sure you have the capabilty to teach me something
 

AussieBird

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My friends and I have recently being timestamping all of the times their birds are actively begging on camera. Keep in mind these macaws are over 10 years old and it's not their "personality" when both are hard core begging on camera. We have even seen the behavior in their sun conures an uncomfortable amount. I know they food manage - I have done this and do this as a training tool, but that's too far what they are doing. No bird should ever be full on baby begging for food unless it's a baby, a freshly weaned youngin', or a messed up bird who feels the need to be comforted!
This is one of the comments that made me realise a lot of what they are doing is not ok.
 

Sodapop&Co.

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My friends and I have recently being timestamping all of the times their birds are actively begging on camera. Keep in mind these macaws are over 10 years old and it's not their "personality" when both are hard core begging on camera. We have even seen the behavior in their sun conures an uncomfortable amount. I know they food manage - I have done this and do this as a training tool, but that's too far what they are doing. No bird should ever be full on baby begging for food unless it's a baby, a freshly weaned youngin', or a messed up bird who feels the need to be comforted!
I am sorry but I also feed healthy so that the junk food is high value, but my birds do not do baby bird behavior (head bobbing with very fluffed head feathers, wing twitching and EVEN the baby begging noise). That is just NOT normal for any bird that is getting fed appropriately. At no point should any bird be to the point of BABY BEGGING for food - it's desperate. And it's insanely too often I see their behavior in their videos. Once I decided to sit there and actually search for it, my god it was constant.
It was a FaceTime discussion I had with both of them and I didn’t write things down word for word- I just wrote basic notes on the main stuff they said, they both kept mentioning weight management and there was an example given to me about only just feeding enough food to fuel your birds so they were less likely to fly away- they know how much energy and stores they have to rely on so to keep them hungry but not starving means they’ll keep returning for tidbits/reward treats.
I don’t think I kept the notes, I was uncomfortable with what they told me. I just know I’m angry I got fooled by them and gave them money for 2 consults… lol I only ended up getting one- they’re certainly awesome sales people and I got fooled!
This absolutely turns my stomach. I felt like I was going to throw up watching a video of the macaws full-on begging, looking sick and unhappy, while Jamie laughs like it's cute. I've been a fan of theirs too at one point. But this just can't be ignored or explained away.
 

Monica

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To be clear... there's food management and there's weight management.

Food management - changing how animals receive their food, but in no way starving them of vital nutrition. This could be something as simple as providing treats throughout the day so they eat a little less food, to foraging for food instead of eating it out of a bowl to actually working for their food.

Weight management - you decrease the food intake so that the animal has an increase desire of food. Ideally, you want to keep the animal at their "ideal" weight. If done incorrectly, you end up with an adult animal that may gorge themselves on water because they are staving, resort to baby begging behaviors and may quickly eat all of their food as well.

IAATE - Position Statement - Food and Weight final format
Avian Behavior - Weight Management and Free Flight Bird Programs
Avian Ambassadors - Food and Weight Management
Good Bird Inc - Weight Management in Animal Training: Pitfalls, Ethical Considerations and Alternative Options
Good Bird Inc - Weight Management Revisited


When several people have seen BT's birds show abnormal begging behaviors, there's something wrong with the training regimen.



I am not against using food to train birds. I have seen first hand contra-freeloading - where an animal *chooses* to "work" for their food instead of receiving it for free. I am against using food in such a way that it results in unhealthy behaviors in adult birds.
 

Sparkles99

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She took the poor frighten budgie’s food away and only offered millet from her hand
This is wanton cruelty. Budgies have a high metabolism. I bet the animals decent zoos feed intermittently are naturally like that, like snakes. They should stop bullying budgies. I'm mad. They only get away with it, because those who enforce neglect laws are unaware of what they're looking at. If a thin dog were begging, it'd be recognized for what it was. :shifty:
 

SummerWing

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I have only heard of Birdtricks, and after reading some of these, I don't think I will turn to them for advice! Some of these made me feel :eek:
 

WikiWaz

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I find Bird Tricks branded toy line to be somewhat of a farce. You can buy many of "their" toys directly from Planet Pleasures.
 

Tikitiel

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I had no idea where to post this thread so I'm just going to put it down here. I've noticed the Bird-tricks website and videos a couple of times now, and I'm interested to see what you guys think of them. Particularly there training methods, are they good for smaller birds? Are there videos worth buying? I noticed they focus on target training a lot which I like. Anyway, what do you guys think?
I love bird tricks and yes they kinda work on my quacker and my sun she has videos for smaller birds and i bought everything on her store xd
 

Jan

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They started back from 2003 time frame. He was heavily into wanting you to advertise your website and such. Plus I know they gathered available info out there on the web. I one time talked to him on the phone, it wasn't a great conversation. I don't really know how they are now a days but they sell stuff for sure.
 

Monica

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After the main sales person left the company, they seem to be less "salesy", to so speak... but now that salesperson is off training dogs, apparently.... was so awkward seeing one of THOSE videos!
 

BananaBird

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I had only watched a few birdtricks videos, but I didn't know they starved their birds or anything else horrible that's been mentioned here. I definitely won't be giving them any money or views.
 

javi

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They are not starving them. Yes they recommend (as most trainers of any animal) a hungry bird is more likely to work. This means training before breakfast or before dinner. It also means removing their favorite treat item from diet and using only in training. With training my dogs they get a light breakfast and work for the rest. Same with dinner. It is also best as they recommend to do daily weight checks, which most bird owners do anyways. If your pet is losing weight (unintentionally) then you are not feeding enough. If they are maintaining then all is good.
 

The_Mayor

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They are not starving them. Yes they recommend (as most trainers of any animal) a hungry bird is more likely to work. This means training before breakfast or before dinner.
Curious if you've taken a look at the videos where people are saying they're seeing inappropriate begging behavior.

I'm a newbie bird support person so I don't know what baby begging behavior would look like. My pair will occasionally communicate when they feel like their breakfast is unreasonably delayed, but it's pretty clear that I'm being chastised, not begged.

Training's important, but I hate the thought of any domestic animal being so hungry that they feel like they *have* to do something that they're afraid of doing, or they stay hungry because they simply don't understand what the trainer wants.
 

javi

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So most adult birds have a begging response though not always due to food. One of my pi's will sit on me and beg but not because she is hungry, usually it is asking for more loving. Macaws and cockatoos are notorious adult beggers as well as spoiled conures. Now what is important in one of the things that you mentioned was that if they dont perform they wont be fed. That is not the case. They will receive their meals but maybe not the special treats. Birds in the wild work for their food, there is no buffet as soon as they wake. Encouraging an animal to "work" for their food through training and foraging improves their mental stability. I have met several animal behaviorists in my time and it is the same recommendation.
 
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