New flighted bird, new name, & the Tent

[triciakoontz]

You folks are really strange. And quite cruel. Win out of here.

 

[Shezbug]

Cruel and strange? Can you explain?

 

[triciakoontz]

Wow. You folks are really strange. And quite cruel. This reminds me of something, maybe high school.

I haven’t said anything about being a trainer except in my Intro when I signed back on. Until people started attacking me I didn’t even give details. I shared my fun with my adorable little bird and not a single person asked a question. Not one. Just judged and swooped in with brooms.

But I don’t care what you think. Jolly spent almost the whole day out today in my bedroom, and he can safely navigate like a champ. And comes to me for millet. He chirps for me and lands on my head. That’s all I need to know. He made a great adjustment super fast. And he doesn’t have a mean bone in his body. Good company. And good bye.

 

[flyzipper]

I was looking forward to hearing about how you're using the tent, so thanks for the post. I'm enjoying this discussion, even though there are different opinions because I believe people are participating in good faith. If some assumption is wrong, and it's corrected in some material way, I know most here are mature enough to take the new information into consideration and update their perspective.

I like the stated goal of not having to fight with a bird who doesn't want be caught, but I'm in the camp (pun intended) of not being keen on the tent.

I've been struggling with the proper way to articulate why, so it might be more concise to say the solution fails my angry macaw test.

One of benefits I've had from interacting with various size birds is that I caught myself subtly forcing my conure at times.

I noticed I was doing simple routine things that I wouldn't (couldn't) do with a macaw, let alone an angry one.

So, the angry macaw test was born, and now I imagine all my interactions with all sized birds through that lens.

With that as context, I ask myself if would I want to be a tent that size with an angry macaw (even an upsized tent). I don't think it gives either of us enough room to feel safe, it doesn't give me enough room to increase distance to show I'm listening when I witness uncomfortable body language, and I don't think it solves the problem of how do I get that angry dude back in his cage, if he wants nothing to do with me. No matter what else is in that tent, it feels like there's a sensory deprivation aspect at play as well.

Those are the reasons I wouldn't use a tent for training, and I honestly don't know what clarifying questions I could ask to change that perspective.

I'm glad it worked for your situation, although it sounds like Jolly** would have done just fine without it.

(** I like the name, it reminds me of Johnny Ringo, the outlaw)

 

[Mizzely]

Sorry I said anything! It's not anything I've ever heard of in the bird world; maybe you're a pioneer! I'm willing to admit if I'm proven wrong. As I said, I'm glad you found something that works for you and your bird; just because it's not what I would do doesn't make it inherently wrong. People push back all the time on things that are new. Do you think no one questioned Copernicus?

 

[saroj12]

I didn’t have time to read all the posts. I’m sad Tricia left with such a poor impression of AA

 

[Sparkles99]

I hope @triciakoontz comes back.

The tent may be small, but given how many birds crash into walls a larger tent, like the picnic table enclosing kind, might be good to prevent injuries.

Every one of us is guilty of having brought birds to live with giant creatures, unless there's someone on here who keeps exclusively ostriches. To a frightened, new bird the cage being a cage, a tent, a room or an aviary makes no real difference. It's a cage & they're trapped. Period.

Anyone thinking their birds have a real 'choice' in our ultimate relationship with them is deluding themselves. Sure, they can attack, but they still can't get away permanently. Gradually & armed with millet, we wear them down psychologically. If it were up to them, we'd have never taken them from the wild.

The only known creatures to have chosen domestication are cats & dogs. We humans imposed ourselves on all of the others, from fish to horses.

I'm not a trainer of anything, but have significant experience with cats, rabbits, fish & horses. I hope AA doesn't become a qualifications flinging place.

Sometimes you can have useful input without being an expert, through hard won experience. One very well known member here laughed at me because I'm not a shrink in a seemingly now deleted post. Firstly, that was an assumption (though it's true . Secondly, I was still right due to sadly personal experience in the area.

I agree that online forums can feel cliquey. They are, but AA is actually much better than some I've seen. Still, I rolled my eyes on a different thread that wasn't directly bird related when I gave a very detailed post with many proactive things for someone to do & a very well known member came by & gave one, not because of their advice which was good, but because their post has way more 'likes'. LOL!

I find parrotlets fascinating, supposedly tiny but the picture in Feathered Estates of JLCribber's next to his budgie makes them look huge, cute & unintimidating. If I didn't ask questions, it's because I was happy to read.

 

[The_Mayor]

I didn’t have time to read all the posts. I’m sad Tricia left with such a poor impression of AA

I agree. I'm sorry she left. I think those of us who spend a certain time in online fora have experienced that there can be a perception of piling on as one person after another reads an initial or "triggering" post and feels the need to respond to it, even though a lot of other people already have. I definitely don't exclude myself from that number, both on other boards and here.

Even now, I'm struggling with a temptation to break down the whole interaction with the bird both to point out learning opportunities for people facing similar milestone interactions with their birds as well as the places where communication here broke down.

If I were sure Trish were actually gone, I might do it, as a way to have a discussion about best practices when building a relationship with a new bird. But, even if she's left the building, I'd kind of expect her to still be reading at least this thread (I can't possibly be the only person who's left a board in anger and frustration, but still wanted to know what people were saying behind my back) so I think that'd probably be more piling on.

 

[triciakoontz]

I agree. I'm sorry she left. I think those of us who spend a certain time in online fora have experienced that there can be a perception of piling on as one person after another reads an initial or "triggering" post and feels the need to respond to it, even though a lot of other people already have. I definitely don't exclude myself from that number, both on other boards and here.

I left for a break. To get away from the mean piling-on by people who knew absolutely nothing about how very positively things were going for me and my bird. From day 1.

I left for a break to get away from people who didn’t bother to ask for details or perspective before they laid down a bunch of inappropriate judgments.

I left for a break get away from the “canned” advice and criticism being repeated over and over that did not fit my situation at all.

I’m used to actually exchanging ideas on forums, so when people jumped on the Uninformedn it was a huge surprise and very hurtful. Most recently I decided I’m not going to let people who don’t don’t play well in the sandbox and don’t know what they are talking about, in this particular situation, get under my skin.

Even now, I'm struggling with a temptation to break down the whole interaction with the bird both to point out learning opportunities for people facing similar milestone interactions with their birds as well as the places where communication here broke down.

How you think you’d be able to give a fair and truthful “break-down” of “the whole interaction with the bird”, given that you know zero about it except for a minute few things I posted, is quite an interesting thing to ponder. You’d just make up what you thought was going on as all the others did?

Or had you planned to actually gather facts on the entire process? We’re you going to find out, from me, Jolly’s background and handling with the breeder? Were you going to ask me about our calm positive first interactions in the car in a Wendy’s parking lot on the long trip home from the breeder, where Jolly chose to take formula from me without me capturing or trapping him in any way? Maybe you’d even have asked how I managed that?

Oh! Were you going to find out the steps Jolly took in fledging and how it was structured with zero restraint or capturing against his will to return him to a cage? Were you going to gather the details from me so that there was no chance of misinformation on the methods used to protect him from accidentally dropping keel-first on a hard floor or crashing into a window or falling down behind a bookcase?

Did you plan to use that info in your points of “learning opportunities” to others? Once you had

If I were sure Trish were actually gone, I might do it, as a way to have a discussion about best practices when building a relationship with a new bird.

Huh. Interesting. Were you planning on seeing the videos of Jolly in the tent (total of 6 times) learning to do a 180, safely land on perches, grab onto ropes, land on cage top, land on various places on my body, always flying and landing of his own free will? Would you have notice, in those videos you watched, the complete lack of force in the process?

I wonder. Would you have shared that lack of force or shared Jolly’s noticeable trust in humans right off the bat as well as his confidence in making choices? Would you tell your audience of the many choices Jolly made to come to me and preen my mouth, hair, and eyebrows or receive formula? Would you tell them about how often he’d solicit finger preening in those first two days and point out how rare that may be, how his breeder had really prepared him for success in his new home? Success beginning on day 1? Would you note that in your best practices discussion?

So. By now, I’m really trusting that you’re educating people with ways to keep a teeny tiny fledgling, who could literally disappear in a toilet paper roll, safe on his first two days of fledgling. I know you would have taught how extremely important it is to keep him safe these first 2-3 days when he’s driven by instinct to blast off, flying hard and fast in random poorly navigated flights, right? You’d explain how that crazy drive works out in Mother Nature because there are lots of tree limbs to grab for a landing but the innate fledging system is particularly dangerous inside a home.Sure you would.

But, even if she's left the building, I'd kind of expect her to still be reading at least this thread (I can't possibly be the only person who's left a board in anger and frustration, but still wanted to know what people were saying behind my back) so I think that'd probably be more piling on.

No, it wouldn’t be piling on because you’d have asked for information before you launched into opinion, remember? Because you didn’t just quote some canned chapter and verse that didn’t fit this particular situation. You would have had facts from which to teach. And you could add, “Hey, this process and outcome achieved with Jolly might not work or be the the best choice for a lot of birds, for these reasons...”

You’d use the actual facts to explain why.

You’d tell about the video you saw showing day 3 where Jolly is coming from all over the bedroom to land on my finger for millet. How he blasted out of his cage the moment the door opened and zoomed around the room, then landed right down on my finger. You’d tell them about how he safely, with no injuries, learned all those skills flying free inside that tent. Because you knew that from the facts you kindly took the time to gather.

And if your audience wanted to do so, they could see the video for themselves. They could see Jolly Wingo choosing to come and be with me over and over again, including the very first flight out of his cage on day 3. Because maybe some of your audience would actually be interested in what actually happened. How Jolly’s personal space and choices were strongly respected, using positive reinforcement, resulting in trauma-free/no-capture bonding during the dangerous (to tiny birds in a human home) fledging period.

You know, I think your talk would be wonderfully informative for illustrating this most important best-practice: set up the bonding process to fit the individual bird. You sure could teach how acute observation and fact-gathering (from experienced people, avian vets, breeder, etc.) ahead of any decisions or action will allow a new bird owner to set up the best possible process with a new bird. Yeah. You’re good.

If I were sure Trish were actually gone, I might do it, as a way to have a discussion about best practices when building a relationship with a new bird. But, even if she's left the building, I'd kind of expect her to still be reading at least this thread (I can't possibly be the only person who's left a board in anger and frustration, but still wanted to know what people were saying behind my back) so I think that'd probably be more piling on.

 

[Hermesbird]

@triciakoontz Everyone is has the right to their own opinion and express it. I’m sorry you feel attacked, but because of discussion sake 50 percent of the users on this thread agree with you just like the other 50 percent don’t. It’s life and sometimes things like this shouldn’t be taken to heart. Shawna made a good point where you just may be pioneering and it is something new and discomforting. Imagine how many people are unsure of change and something new. Either way the statement “to each is own” is very true in this situation. Sometimes we have to take other people’s “ criticism“ in stride.

 

[triciakoontz]

Yes! Great advice!

 

[macawpower58]

Try and start a conversation about pinch collar training!
You'll have passionate believers on both sides, and neither will be swayed that the other is clueless.

Take the opinions offered, or not. That's about all anyone can do.
Myself, I really don't have an opinion, though I don't see cruel with the tent as long as the bird is not stressed.

Your best option IMO, is explain why you believe it's good.
Perhaps even video a session you've done.
If good advice is given, take it. Advice you don't like, don't take.

Leaving benefits no-one.

 

[Love My Zons]

Sorry that you feel the way that you do.

If the method you are trying works for you, go with it.

Your bird, your bonding experience. Stick around if you can, we are here to support and guide you if you need help in the future.