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Need Low Protein Diet suggestions

Toy

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My B&G Macaw (age 20yrs, 10m) has kidney issues/disease.

Her last tests showed:

Hematocrit 36.0 L Range: 38.0-54.0%
Potassium 5.7 H Range: 2.0-4.0 mmol/L
Amylase 978 H Range: 320-750U/L
Calcium was border line low.

All other Hematology & Chemistry tests showed normal. Her poops were showing no white urates, but since the diet change she now has some. They are still pretty wet.

She is in perfect feather. Has never plucked or even chewed a single feather including molted ones. She lays 2 eggs every winter, usually right at Xmas or new Years. She lays them from her high swing, so they always smash. She wants nothing to do with them anyway.

Vet said to put her on a low protein diet & retest in 6-8 weeks. She is due for a recheck in 4 weeks. So no nuts, eggs, etc., for now. She is permitted to have a seed mix (I feed Bountiful Harvest), Pellets (on Zupreem Natural for now, have Roudybush AK ordered), she's eating some pellets, but not a lot. She will eat mashed sweet potatoes, but not every day, cooked white potatoes, some rice, peas, corn & a little chop, not much. Some fruits like melons, grapes, apple. She is not big on most veggies. Won't touch greens or carrots. Vet said she can have low salt crackers & a little Greek yogurt as a treat.

I have her on flax seed oil/corn oil (1/2 teaspoon daily) per vets instruction. She is also getting milk thistle/dandelion root (6 drops daily). She takes the milk thistle/dandelion via a syringe, but doesn't like the flax seed oil/corn oil. I've been mixing it in the sweet potatoes, but now she won't touch them. I tried putting it on a mix of peas & corn, she wouldn't eat any. She doesn't like the oily texture. I also gave her Aloe Detox in her water for 2 weeks.

She is not happy she can't have any nuts. She's tried to break into the nut container many times. I moved it up high on a cabinet & she climbed up, by pulling the drawers open, climbed up & got into it. She doesn't seem to be satisfied on this low protein diet. She lost some chest muscle a few months ago, all tho she is maintaining weight.

I was thinking maybe a low protein birdie bread or low protein pancakes would work to put the flax seed oil/corn oil on. Does anyone have any recipes that I could put this oily stuff on that will soak in & she will eat it. I'd appreciate any recipes if anyone has any.

Any low protein food suggests?

TIA
 

sunnysmom

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If you go under Marketplace, Avian Organics sells a number of bird bread mixes, mashes, etc that maybe your bird would like. My bird wouldn't be happy either if we had to eliminate nuts. I hope she adjusts to her diet. And I see you're from PA. What part of the state?

@Hankmacaw ?
 

Hankmacaw

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Remember that fruit has a lot of sugar which metabolizes straight to fat - not good. For energy and weight gain you can feed your bird boiled pasta - preferably whole grain - and brown rice. You may be able to dribble her oils over the pasta to get her to eat it. There are several fats that are unsaturated and have no protein - corn oil, olive oil, red palm oil.

This is a very good article by Dr. Lafeber. There are a number of tests mentioned - which ones has your bird had done?
Nutritional Management of Renal Disease in Birds | LafeberVet

Here is a list of low protein foods;
There are a number of items that aren't appropriate for birds such as mushrooms, onions and avacado, so check any that you are not sure of.
List of Low Protein Foods - dietaryfiberfood.com

Good luck with your baby and please keep us informed as to how she is doing.
 

Rain Bow

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Did your vet give you any ideas to make your fids diet better other than removing the nuts?

You could try sprouting just do grains & seeds (no beans ir nuts). You can call the vet & see if (for the flax seed oil which is probably the healthier oil) see if you can use ground flax seed instead. Be sure to see what the dose is as often there is a change when going from liquid to solid statea in this sort of situation.

If you do decide to sprout you can learn how in the Feathered Foodcourt. There is planty of us hanging around to help. It's also an easy way to add things that are healthy like that ground flax seed.

Like @Hankmacaw , I noticed that most of what your darling is eating breaks into sugars. A little is ok but when it's the majority of diet it can cause issues not just day to day, but also longterm. It's good that your fid likes sweet potato's I'd add cooked carrots right into that, will not know the difference if you mash it all up. A little winter orange squash may work as another alternative in that mash. Noidles can work in these situations, maybe cut the potato into smaller pieces & stuff some cylinder shape noodles w/ it. I mix my noodles up & rarely use wheat. I use corn noodles, gluten free type of noodles, veggie noodles. Sometimes Buddy likes them & sometimes not. If you eat it they are more likely to eat it.

I hope things go well & I see you in the F. Court!

:bighug: Rain
 

Toy

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Bare with me. Trying to figure out how to post.

If you go under Marketplace, Avian Organics sells a number of bird bread mixes, mashes, etc that maybe your bird would like. My bird wouldn't be happy either if we had to eliminate nuts. I hope she adjusts to her diet. And I see you're from PA. What part of the state?

Thanks for the info. I'm about 20 miles west of Williamsport.


Remember that fruit has a lot of sugar which metabolizes straight to fat - not good. For energy and weight gain you can feed your bird boiled pasta - preferably whole grain - and brown rice. You may be able to dribble her oils over the pasta to get her to eat it. There are several fats that are unsaturated and have no protein - corn oil, olive oil, red palm oil.

This is a very good article by Dr. Lafeber. There are a number of tests mentioned - which ones has your bird had done?
Nutritional Management of Renal Disease in Birds | LafeberVet

Here is a list of low protein foods;
There are a number of items that aren't appropriate for birds such as mushrooms, onions and avacado, so check any that you are not sure of.
List of Low Protein Foods - dietaryfiberfood.com

Good luck with your baby and please keep us informed as to how she is doing.
She's a bit of a picky eater. Doesn't like pasta, will eat a little rice. She is getting corn oil mixed in with the flax seed oil. I also just got red palm oil. She doesn't like anything greasy, so I can't put a lot in any food or she won't touch it. I scanned her last test result in & will try to post them. Next visit I will request they run vitamin A & D levels as well. If there are any I should have done please let me know.


I would check into walnuts.... I know it's a nut, but they are high in Omega 3's...
The flax seed oil is Omega 3 & the corn oil if omega 6 to replace the nuts.


Did your vet give you any ideas to make your fids diet better other than removing the nuts?

You could try sprouting just do grains & seeds (no beans ir nuts). You can call the vet & see if (for the flax seed oil which is probably the healthier oil) see if you can use ground flax seed instead. Be sure to see what the dose is as often there is a change when going from liquid to solid statea in this sort of situation.

If you do decide to sprout you can learn how in the Feathered Foodcourt. There is planty of us hanging around to help. It's also an easy way to add things that are healthy like that ground flax seed.

She said no nuts, eggs, beans, broccoli, meat, etc.. She can have pellets, seed mix, cleaned cicken bones, sweet & white potatoes, carrots, rice, chop & any veggies I can get her to eat, which isn't a lot. Some fruit & low salt crackers. She's not a big eater & doesn't like carrots or any leafy veggies. I got her to eat some chop by adding a little Greek yogurt to it. Even then she only ate maybe a level teaspoon full. She won't touch sprouts.


Like @Hankmacaw , I noticed that most of what your darling is eating breaks into sugars. A little is ok but when it's the majority of diet it can cause issues not just day to day, but also longterm. It's good that your fid likes sweet potato's I'd add cooked carrots right into that, will not know the difference if you mash it all up. A little winter orange squash may work as another alternative in that mash. Noidles can work in these situations, maybe cut the potato into smaller pieces & stuff some cylinder shape noodles w/ it. I mix my noodles up & rarely use wheat. I use corn noodles, gluten free type of noodles, veggie noodles. Sometimes Buddy likes them & sometimes not. If you eat it they are more likely to eat it.

I hope things go well & I see you in the F. Court
!
She doesn't like carrots in any form. She will eat maybe one bite/piece of cooked pasta. This is my problem. She's a picky eater.
 

Hankmacaw

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Although her Serum Amylase is some what high, RJT DONELEY West Toowoomba Veterinary Surgery, declares that the lowest level of increased amylase to indicate pancreatitis is >1500 U/L and your bird's is 978 U/L. High, but not high enough for acute pancreatitis. She may be in the earlier stages of pancreatitis and I think you should talk to your vet about it. The combination of high potassium and high amylase is an additional indication of pancreatitis - so it does need to be pursued.

She is slightly anemic and that effects her energy level. Can you increase her iron intake by feeding some spinach a couple of times a week.

"A serum amylase level greater than 1,500 U/L is suggestive of pancreatitis......"
https://www.marionzoological.com/docs/AcutePancreatitisinParrots.pdf
 

Toy

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Although her Serum Amylase is some what high, RJT DONELEY West Toowoomba Veterinary Surgery, declares that the lowest level of increased amylase to indicate pancreatitis is >1500 U/L and your bird's is 978 U/L. High, but not high enough for acute pancreatitis. She may be in the earlier stages of pancreatitis and I think you should talk to your vet about it. The combination of high potassium and high amylase is an additional indication of pancreatitis - so it does need to be pursued.

She is slightly anemic and that effects her energy level. Can you increase her iron intake by feeding some spinach a couple of times a week.

"A serum amylase level greater than 1,500 U/L is suggestive of pancreatitis......"
https://www.marionzoological.com/docs/AcutePancreatitisinParrots.pdf
Thank you for the response & info. I'm doing my best to figure this all out & work to get her healthy again.

I've been researching & have wondered if this was leaning more toward pancreatitis than kidney. All tho info suggests symptoms can be the same for pancreatitis & kidney. Her symptoms are watery poops, throwing up & napping a lot. She is not showing any signs of being in pain, no feather picking, etc. She was a little over weight in the chest area around Xmas/New years, she laid 2 eggs during this time (normal for her), then started into a heavy molt (normal), then she started to lose chest muscle & then the watery poops & vomiting started. At this time I also had the H1N1 flu & bronchitis/aspirated pneumonia & landed in the hospital for 5 days.

From what info I was able to find.....there is no one set of tests for pancreatitis. They suggest checking amylase & lipase levels, CBC. An Ultrasound is suggested, but the outcome depends on the equipment & skill of the tech doing the test, as the pancreas is hard to find. I will also ask the vet to check her vitamin A, vitamin D, Iron & calcium levels.

Diet is suggest to be low fat/low protein, Omega 3 & Omega 6 (flax seed oil/corn oil), pain meds & pancreatic enzymes. Many of the low fat foods are high in protein & many veggies are high in potassium, which greatly limits what she can eat.

She won't touch spinach, but I did read that sweet potatoes & peas are high in iron, which she does eat. The chop I made should have high iron, but she won't eat much of it. Getting her to eat low fat/low protein foods isn't going to be easy, since she is a picky eater.
 

Rain Bow

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Pumpkin Seeds are high in Iron & high in omega 3's
but are also high in protein (12 grams)

Chia seeds are high in iron & omega 3 but protein is @ (4.6gr)

Quinoa also high in iron & high in antioxidant's
But is high in protein (1/4 cup has 6 grams)

Broccoli is high in iron & vitamin c which helps the body absorb the iron this is the lowest in protein so far (4.2 grams)

Another article that I'm reading says these 4 seeds are high in iron

Re: Pumpkin, seseme, hemp & flax. I know that hemp is high in omega 3 & 6. Flax also contains both but is the one that topples omega 6 w/ high(maybe highest) in omega 3. Seseme seeds are super high in omega 6 but have almost no omega 3.

Not counting the pumpkin seeds I use the 3 seeds above & chia seeds on Buddy's sprouts every morning. The problem I see is all of them are high in protein (per serving).

I'd check w/ the vet, but maybe adding some of these seeds may have more benefit than the protein is risk. I'd ask about broccoli too. Very high in iron & although it shouldn't be an every day item (I'm told it can cause thyroid disfunction in birds that consume it regularly, I've never reasearched this myself tho) it may also help boost that iron & many birds live it!
 

Toy

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JaJaBinks (will be 21 in late January) is seeing the vet again on Dec. 4th. Vet wanted me to give her flax seed/corn oil & a low protein diet & see her again in 8 weeks. Vet said possible kidney disease, altho some of her tests seem to lean toward pancreatitis (see test results posted above). It'll be 12 weeks since she was last seen. She would have gotten there sooner, but I was in the hospital a few times, including last week. Anyway she's been on a low protein diet (RB renal pellets, she refuses to eat), Any veggies she will eat (mostly peas, corn, potatoes & sweet potatoes), some seed mix, Milk Thistle/Dandelion Root, Flax seed/corn oil & a little Red Palm oil. She not liking anything oily. I tried to keep her on low protein, but she stressed not having any protein. She was climbing the cupboards, opening drawers, etc., looking for nuts. So I started giving her a few nuts, plus occassional scrambled eggs. Her poops look a little better, but still not normal. She is still vomiting some 1-6 hours after eating. She has lost more chest muscle. She naps a lot during the day still. No change in feathers, skin, beak or feet. All look good. The flax seed/corn oil seems to have helped a little, but it's not enough to make her feel well, normal. She often acts like she is hungry, but refuses to eat the pellets in her dish. I tried Chop too, but she won't eat that either. She won't touch greens, of any kind, period. It seems like a lot of the food she eats is not getting past her crop. Her keel bone is very sharp. She's lost a lot of chest muscle since this all started. Her weight is averaging around 1030g most days. She does go as high as 1090g & fall into the 990 range now & then.

I've been reading as much info as I can find on Kidney Disease, ABV, PDD, etc.. Dr. Bob Dahlhausen & Dr. Susan Orosz have done extensive research on ABV & PDD. I wish I could take her there, but it's 7 hours drive one way. Not possible. I found an article on meds & supplements, they suggest, etc., but it lacks the doses. My vet would have to contact them to get the doses. Celebrex is one of the meds, but I've read long term it's not good. I'm not sure that's what she has, but will request she be tested for ABV. I have also come across info that states low protein is not good, as they slowly starve, altho most articles suggest to feed low protein. This seems to be what is taking place. I also want to request she have Vitamin A, D & Calcium levels tested. I'm hoping the vet be able to get x-rays. Every vet she's been to describe her as being "formidable". She's a very strong bird & fights the vets.

I bumped into a video about a bird having ABV at a rescue place. A poster stated his U2 had ABV/PDD & he managed to get it back to good health by syringe feeding ground pellets, Celebrex, milk thistle, Omega 3, aloe detox & a few other things, plus normal/high protein diet. He spent many thousands & worked with many avian vets & researchers to find anything that would help. His bird is over 30 now & doing good.

If there are any other tests that should be run, aside from the basic CBC, etc., please let me know. I'm open to any suggestions that will help me figure out how to get her better.

TIA,
Toy
 

Rain Bow

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I'm not sure as Mary @Hankmacaw is the master @ this stuff. The only other one that may be well versed in your situation is @Lady Jane Or also possibly @Karen ....
 

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I carry a product called Sneaky Sprinkles, which are freeze dried organic green veggies that have been reduced to a powder form. This, along with our 'Bring your A Game' were created for birds who won't touch veggies. Simply sprinkle it onto their favorite food, and it will adhere it, making it impossible for them to pick off. I have several birds who won't eat anything green by choice, but now they do with our sprinkles! It might be a good alternative for your baby.
 
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