Need a consultation: feeding schedule with a busy life?

[JornsBergenson]

I appreciate anyone who is willing to read my long-winded story and provide some insight.

My wife and I have an Ekkie and our son has a Nanday Conure. All three humans now have day jobs that require us to get out of the house around 6am.

We have been putting pellets in their bowls at night when we cover their cages. Both birds go straight ot bed and don't touch the pellets until the next day. Another son of ours uncovers the birds around 9am. They get to eat as much as they want during the day. In the afternoon around 4pm I make fresh food which varies from day to day (veggies of all sorts, greens, beans, lentils, whole grain pasta, etc.).

So, they are both eating plenty of good food but the concern is that they are getting too much. The 1.5yo eclectus is a big boy -- by far the largest eclectus I've ever seen. At our last vet visit 6months ago, I was surprised that she said that his keel was a little pronounced and that he could fill out some. She said that feeling his keel would be the best way to see if he under or overweight. Unfortunately, he has always been skittish and we've not been able to get him on a scale to weigh him (target training has not gone well).

We really don't have any reference for our birds' weight or how much to feed them.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mizzely]

Generally speaking, birds will eat 15 to 20% of their body weight in a day. Are you sure that the ekkie is actually eating the foods provided? Is he a busy boy? I know my Jardine's is a bit underweight and it can be a struggle to get any extra grams on him, but he plays SO much that he sometimes forgets to eat!

Things you can try to add to the diet for the day:

- Bird Bread (I usually use Harrison's)
- Nuts (almonds, walnuts, etc) but keep it to 1 or 2 a day
- some healthy seeds like hemp
- freeze dried or dehydrated veggies
- a more nutritionally dense pellet like Harrison's High Potency or a Breeder formula

 

[JornsBergenson]

Generally speaking, birds will eat 15 to 20% of their body weight in a day. Are you sure that the ekkie is actually eating the foods provided? Is he a busy boy? I know my Jardine's is a bit underweight and it can be a struggle to get any extra grams on him, but he plays SO much that he sometimes forgets to eat!

Things you can try to add to the diet for the day:

- Bird Bread (I usually use Harrison's)
- Nuts (almonds, walnuts, etc) but keep it to 1 or 2 a day
- some healthy seeds like hemp
- freeze dried or dehydrated veggies
- a more nutritionally dense pellet like Harrison's High Potency or a Breeder formula

They are on a mix of Harrison's and a little bit of Tops pellets plus regular treats of an almond every day (plus the slivers they get for training) and Birdie Bread a couple of times a week.

I'm actually more concerned that they are eating too much since they have all-day access to the pellets which they both gobble up. If birds are like me, they eat out of boredom when food is constantly available. My impression is that our ekkie is overweight. He like a fat green chicken to me I guess I don't know what I should be looking for when I feel his keel. He is not a touchy-feely bird whatsoever and he won't put up with me checking him out with my hands for very long at all.

Should I give them just the amount of pellets they should eat in a day? If so, how do I know how much that is?
Since they get a variety of veggies and fruit with different nutritional and calorie content, how do I know how much they should get?
Right now, they seem to eat and eat until they're stuffed.

 

[Shezbug]

I leave food in with my birds all day every day. My birds do not overeat but my dogs are a completely different matter so they won’t be getting left with free access to food lol.

 

[rocky'smom]

@EkkieLu

 

[Mizzely]

Your post led me to believe that the ekkie is underweight as he has a pronounced keel bone. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted. Ripley also eats a ton of food - but it doesn't translate to weight gain as he plays so much and also regurgitates a lot around his area.

Most birds will not overeat. If your birds are over eating then yes, a diet plan should be enacted, or provide additional activities for them to be engaged in. Foraging is a good example.

As for how much they should eat, it is really dependent on the specific bird for the most part. Weigh out how much food you give them, then weigh the amount left when you remove it. The difference is the amount they consumed (generally, of course they are messy and drop some). Do this for a week or two and get an average. Then provide only the amount they ate less 10% to achieve slow weight loss.

 

[Les charlson]

Hi. Just saw your question and thought I would chime in. Ekkies are grazers. They take their time eating. I am in Au and we feed what they eat here in the wild or what their partners bring them. Sounds like they need more fresh food. Could someone feed a morning fruit bowl?

Breakfast this morning for Ruby was, 1 strawberry, a half a dozen blueberries, half a passionfruit, a chunk of banana, 6 grapes, half a baby cucumber, 1 chilli pepper sliced, a spoon of sprouts and some kiwi fruit. Most of it is gone by lunch. I remove the bowl and give finger foods during the afternoon. Around 6 fresh green beans, maybe 4 fresh peas in the pod, then a slice of apple. All is eaten.

She has another bowl that has mixed seed and a kind of trail mix for humans available all day and a couple of nuts before bed but the seeds are usually left unless she is super hungry. Other days she has mashed pumpkin and sweet potato or some lorikeet food that I offer as a wet mix, to mimic the flowers I can't give to her, which she loves.
This is what she eats in a day and is not overweight. Her stats are normal, same with droppings. Here in Australia its getting warm so will offer her fresh food twice a day, so half first thing and half before it gets dark so it doesn't go off. I try to mimic the wild ekkies here as much as possible.Hope this helps.

My girl eats mainly fruit. All sorts of fruit. Her next favourite is fresh veggies, greens, plus sprouts. She also gets all sorts of nuts and seeds, 9 grain bread with a bit of peanut butter and occasionally a chunk of fresh corn on the cob. Sometimes she gets a bit of egg, meat or coconut. She doesn't eat pellets so am no help there. Their bodies are ada[ted for fruit mainly so pellets don't make sense. Pellets should be around 10 percent for ekkies.

 

[JornsBergenson]

I leave food in with my birds all day every day. My birds do not overeat but my dogs are a completely different matter so they won’t be getting left with free access to food lol.

Thanks. Come to think of it, the breeder told us that it should be fine to leave pellets out for Eclectus all day.

Your post led me to believe that the ekkie is underweight as he has a pronounced keel bone. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted. Ripley also eats a ton of food - but it doesn't translate to weight gain as he plays so much and also regurgitates a lot around his area.

Most birds will not overeat. If your birds are over eating then yes, a diet plan should be enacted, or provide additional activities for them to be engaged in. Foraging is a good example.

As for how much they should eat, it is really dependent on the specific bird for the most part. Weigh out how much food you give them, then weigh the amount left when you remove it. The difference is the amount they consumed (generally, of course they are messy and drop some). Do this for a week or two and get an average. Then provide only the amount they ate less 10% to achieve slow weight loss.

Sorry what I said was misleading. Since the vet visit, it seems our eclectus has grown to be a really big boy and I'm worried that he's now overweight. Thanks for the guideline. I'll do my best to weigh out the food as you describe.

Hi. Just saw your question and thought I would chime in. Ekkies are grazers. They take their time eating. I am in Au and we feed what they eat here in the wild or what their partners bring them. Sounds like they need more fresh food. Could someone feed a morning fruit bowl?

Breakfast this morning for Ruby was, 1 strawberry, a half a dozen blueberries, half a passionfruit, a chunk of banana, 6 grapes, half a baby cucumber, 1 chilli pepper sliced, a spoon of sprouts and some kiwi fruit. Most of it is gone by lunch. I remove the bowl and give finger foods during the afternoon. Around 6 fresh green beans, maybe 4 fresh peas in the pod, then a slice of apple. All is eaten.

She has another bowl that has mixed seed and a kind of trail mix for humans available all day and a couple of nuts before bed but the seeds are usually left unless she is super hungry. Other days she has mashed pumpkin and sweet potato or some lorikeet food that I offer as a wet mix, to mimic the flowers I can't give to her, which she loves.
This is what she eats in a day and is not overweight. Her stats are normal, same with droppings. Here in Australia its getting warm so will offer her fresh food twice a day, so half first thing and half before it gets dark so it doesn't go off. I try to mimic the wild ekkies here as much as possible.Hope this helps.

My girl eats mainly fruit. All sorts of fruit. Her next favourite is fresh veggies, greens, plus sprouts. She also gets all sorts of nuts and seeds, 9 grain bread with a bit of peanut butter and occasionally a chunk of fresh corn on the cob. Sometimes she gets a bit of egg, meat or coconut. She doesn't eat pellets so am no help there. Their bodies are adapted for fruit mainly so pellets don't make sense. Pellets should be around 10 percent for ekkies.

That was very helpful. Gives a good picture of what/how eclectus parrots eat. Based on what I've read, I've kind of been favoring veggies over fruit because of how inactive pet birds are. Maybe I should reevaluate.

We leave 3 hours before the birds should get up and the person who uncovers them can't handle anything beyond that. That's why the birds have pellets in the morning.

Our boy devours certain fruits (blueberries, kiwis, apples, grapes) but turns his nose/beak up to others (strawberries, banana, mango, papaya). I've tried every fruit in the organic fruit section at the store. We stick to his faves and try to reintroduce things he turned didn't like before. He gets lots of leafy greens, sweet potatoes and mixed veggies. Many days I just mix two vegetables for him like beets and green beans. Yesterday was kale, carrots and sweet peppers.

Generally, I do give him mixed fruit/veggies around 4pm and let him graze as much as he wants. Often, he eats dinner with me if we're having something like lentil or chickpea soup or veggie spaghetti. He loves spicy soup. I think he's in a competition to eat faster/more than I can.

I think most importantly, we need to get serious about getting the birds on the scales and keeping a health log. I also need to get the eclectus used to being handled enough so I can check his keel. We hang out together for hours everyday and is happy stepping up, he just doesn't like being handled in any way.

 

[javi]

There are size differences in eclectus subspecies. My friend breeds Solomon, red sided, vos and arus and the first time I saw his male Aru I was in shock as to how large he was esp since at the same time he was handfeeding some solomons. I am curious which subspecies yours is or maybe cross of.
I recommend some daily weighing for a month to get an average weight and then regular weighing every few weeks to make sure everything is ok. It is so easy for larger parrot species to get overweight in captivity because most cannot get same flying exercise as a tiel, lovie, or conure.

 

[JornsBergenson]

There are size differences in eclectus subspecies. My friend breeds Solomon, red sided, vos and arus and the first time I saw his male Aru I was in shock as to how large he was esp since at the same time he was handfeeding some solomons. I am curious which subspecies yours is or maybe cross of.
I recommend some daily weighing for a month to get an average weight and then regular weighing every few weeks to make sure everything is ok. It is so easy for larger parrot species to get overweight in captivity because most cannot get same flying exercise as a tiel, lovie, or conure.

Toby is Red Sided. Also, he hasn't been flying for months because the groomer over-clipped his wings. He's just starting to get the gumption up to do some flying from the perch to me across the room. We need to make time for indoor flight training.

 

[Les charlson]

Extra thoughts. Ruby didn't like strawberries last year. Now she has changed her mind . I tend to cut the fruit into bite size pieces so the grapes are quarted etc. I don't know any parrot who won't eat passion fruit or fresh beans or peas in the pod. Perhaps you could cut a passionfruit in half and offer as finger food.
They get bored with the same food and often change their minds. Some days Ruby leaves the banana so I don't offer it for a week or two, other times she wants a capsicum heart, the seed part and leaves the rest. They do waste a bit but that's ok. Check the bottom of the cage to see what she throws out .

I cover all my birds at sundown and wake them at sunrise to keep them as natural as possible. Its 5;30 am here and they are awake, waiting for breakfast.

Could you add another overnight bowl and add a few peapods, a few grapes, a couple of green beans snapped in half and a red chilli cut down the middle so he can eat the seeds? If you don't chop them they should be ok during the day.
If you put it in last thing at night he may eat them through the day then when you get home offer more fresh food. It sounds like he is eating too many pellets due to there not being anything else on offer.

My girl is huge too . She is active with her toys, chews the sticks/branches I give her and is in good feather. I think you may find he will be a healthier weight if you reduce the pellets and offer her more fruit. Its good for their longer digestive tract.
All my birds get the same diet regardless of what type they are. Good luck.

Thanks. Come to think of it, the breeder told us that it should be fine to leave pellets out for Eclectus all day.



Sorry what I said was misleading. Since the vet visit, it seems our eclectus has grown to be a really big boy and I'm worried that he's now overweight. Thanks for the guideline. I'll do my best to weigh out the food as you describe.



That was very helpful. Gives a good picture of what/how eclectus parrots eat. Based on what I've read, I've kind of been favoring veggies over fruit because of how inactive pet birds are. Maybe I should reevaluate.

We leave 3 hours before the birds should get up and the person who uncovers them can't handle anything beyond that. That's why the birds have pellets in the morning.

Our boy devours certain fruits (blueberries, kiwis, apples, grapes) but turns his nose/beak up to others (strawberries, banana, mango, papaya). I've tried every fruit in the organic fruit section at the store. We stick to his faves and try to reintroduce things he turned didn't like before. He gets lots of leafy greens, sweet potatoes and mixed veggies. Many days I just mix two vegetables for him like beets and green beans. Yesterday was kale, carrots and sweet peppers.

Generally, I do give him mixed fruit/veggies around 4pm and let him graze as much as he wants. Often, he eats dinner with me if we're having something like lentil or chickpea soup or veggie spaghetti. He loves spicy soup. I think he's in a competition to eat faster/more than I can.

I think most importantly, we need to get serious about getting the birds on the scales and keeping a health log. I also need to get the eclectus used to being handled enough so I can check his keel. We hang out together for hours everyday and is happy stepping up, he just doesn't like being handled in any way.

 

[JornsBergenson]

Extra thoughts. Ruby didn't like strawberries last year. Now she has changed her mind . I tend to cut the fruit into bite size pieces so the grapes are quarted etc. I don't know any parrot who won't eat passion fruit or fresh beans or peas in the pod. Perhaps you could cut a passionfruit in half and offer as finger food.
They get bored with the same food and often change their minds. Some days Ruby leaves the banana so I don't offer it for a week or two, other times she wants a capsicum heart, the seed part and leaves the rest. They do waste a bit but that's ok. Check the bottom of the cage to see what she throws out .

Good tips! Thanks.

I cover all my birds at sundown and wake them at sunrise to keep them as natural as possible. Its 5;30 am here and they are awake, waiting for breakfast.

Setting a consistent bed time is tough because we have 4 of our kids living with us that have different schedules. Some of us go to bed early and some late and we don't have a dedicated bird room. The conure goes to bed when his cage is covered even if the humans are up. Toby the eclectus will sit and talk in the dark if he hears anyone walking around whether it's 11:30pm or 6am. We always covered his cage from 8:30pm to 8:30am.

Could you add another overnight bowl and add a few peapods, a few grapes, a couple of green beans snapped in half and a red chilli cut down the middle so he can eat the seeds? If you don't chop them they should be ok during the day.
If you put it in last thing at night he may eat them through the day then when you get home offer more fresh food. It sounds like he is eating too many pellets due to there not being anything else on offer.

I could try that and leave pellets in his cage as well.

My girl is huge too . She is active with her toys, chews the sticks/branches I give her and is in good feather. I think you may find he will be a healthier weight if you reduce the pellets and offer her more fruit. Its good for their longer digestive tract.
All my birds get the same diet regardless of what type they are. Good luck.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Rain Bow]

@JornsBergenson
I have an Amazon & so does @Mizzely .

This type of bird has a tendency to over eat & usually bad stuff that's full of fat. I only regulate seeds & 1 nut a day. Everything else he seems to self regulate. (Even scrambled eggs)

I do weigh him. Birds weights can vary widely just based on bone structure & heights even within the same species. At Buddy's 1st vet & 2nd vet visit they told me where he should be & stay around. For him it's between 288 & 303 grams give or take. I weigh him in the morning before he eats after his 1st poop (per both vets). I use a simple kitchen scale take his weight in Oz. & mathematically convert to grams. I keep track of his weight & date taken on a small notebook in my kitchen. The tape on it keeps him from falling & is simple medical paper tape (I didn't use masking as it has a slippery finish).



The hardest part of it was just getting him used to it & stepping onto it. It took lotsa treats, lotsa patience & persistence. The scale for me was free because a family member gave it to me. I know @Hawk12237 just bought one @ walmart & I believe it was less than 20 usd. Even if you only weighed them Saturday or Sunday it would be better than nothing & could alert you to someone being ill & not eating. BTW, I trained Buddy on the scale @ night before bed & his last full forage before lights out & then started weighs in the morning when he was more comfortable.

I try to feed as much fresh as possible & used to leave pellets (when away). I have since removed pellets because Buddy will not eat the tops brand. I am soon going to incorporate Harrison's (I think), if Buddy will eat them. I really recommend sprouting as a secondary food to fresh but I wouldn't leave them all day. If you could add it into your chop it would be ideal.

I'm going to tag a few other foodies into the conversation as they may have other ideas I'm not considering.

@Monica. Hope you don't mind, you have helped me thru a few bumps.

@finchly Tanya you have more ideas w/ an all day leave (I'm guessing) due to your warmer climate than mine.

@Lady Jane & @rocky'smom
You both always have sneaky ways to get good stuff in & keep um, thin & trim properly

 

[Mizzely]

@Rain Bow I have a Jardine's which is a poicephalus

 

[rocky'smom]

When Bebe the cockatiel, first came here, he was junk food junkie, sunflower seeds by the handful plus human junk food Doritos, Fritos ,cheese curls.
It's taken 3years to get him to eat healthy.
If he like pellets try this pellets about 1/2 tablespoon on bottom of his dish, add fruit and vegetables to the top whatever he likes. He will have to dig into the fruit and vegetables to get to pellets. They have to taste their food to find out if they like it. I sneak fruit into Bebe. Cockatiels aren't big fruit eaters, I use apple sauce in his sweet potato mash, also pineapple crushed in sweet potato mash. @EkkieLu

 

[Monica]

I was also thinking about a second dish for the bird cages that you could prepare the night before and have your kid, who uncovers them in the morning, place them in the cage at that time. You can just leave the ready dishes in the fridge, then leave a note by or on the bird cages to put them into the cages once uncovered.

Jason Crean of Avian Raw Whole Food Nutrition (on Facebook) only recommends TOP's pellets. He's also really big on feeding a varied, fresh food and dry food diet... although the products he recommends are rather expensive....

If you wanted to completely do away with pellets (if you ever consider it), then you could also look into Leslie Moran of Best Bird Food Ever. She is completely against pellets.


I am not an eclectus owner, and I do feed pellets, however, from everything I've read, they do not do well, long term, on a diet high in pellets. Some can't even handle eating any as part of their diet. Obviously, some do fine! But I do agree that you may want to see if you can provide more fresh foods.



And exercise.... it can both help to slim down and bulk him up.... which seems like an oxymoron, but muscle weighs more than fat.... which can help reduce the amount of fat on his body, thus slimming him down, but he could potentially end up weighing more, as he builds muscle. A bird that is fat feels pudgy and soft where-as a bird with muscle feels 'thick'. I've felt the difference easily between a cockatiel that couldn't fly vs one that could.

 

[JornsBergenson]

All good advise given. Thanks to everyone.

I think we're doing good with the types of fresh food that we get. It mostly a matter of the fresh stuff being offered earlier in the day instead them filling up on pellets all day before getting the good stuff.

Here's a loose plan:

• On Sunday afternoons, prepare a week's worth of meals. Each morning, I'll put the food in the bowls so my son can just them in the cage. For now, I'll keep the pellets in a bowl on the other side of the cage so the pellets don't get contaminated to control waste.
• For the little conure, hide the pellets under the fresh food since he won't eat any veggies or fruit. He only eats pellets and nutriberries and nuts, but we're sure going to try to get him to switch.
• For now, continue to supplement fresh foods with Tops and Harrisons pellets. Our breeder and vet both recommended that, so we're going to continue.
• Weigh the food to establish how much the birds are eating.
• Commit to training 15 to 30 minutes a day.
  
• Work daily on getting the eclectus used to being handled so that we can trim his nails ourselves, check his keel bone, inspect his feathers and his "undercarriage".
• Get both birds used to being weighed. I bought a scale months ago and even built a perch for them to stand on but there was wailing and gnashing or beaks whenever we tried to get the eclectus to step up on it. Target training is the key here, I think.
• Keep a health log.

As bird owners, we've just been enjoying our relationships with the birds but haven't really been responsible with their health and training, but I think we're getting our stuff together now.

Again, thanks to everyone that has responded thus far.
By far, this is the best forum I've ever encountered.

 

[Monica]

Just a note on training.... it may be better to have 3-5 five minute training sessions than it would be to have one long training session. This way it's fun and short, not long and boring!

 

[rocky'smom]

Training I've always used the 10 minute rule twice a day. The weighing try this, most favorite treat in hand show it to the bird, 'step up' command. Take bird to scale perch 'step up' command and once the weight is recorded give the treat.

 

[Rain Bow]

@Rain Bow I have a Jardine's which is a poicephalus

Oooops! Sorry, I know that, my brain musta hiccup'ed.

 

[EkkieLu]

When I have to occasionally go out for the day I give my ekkies their regular warm breakfast, plus a bowl of fruits/veggies that don't spoil so quickly. Blueberries, grapes, thawed frozen peas, baby carrots, etc. Raw produce that can been served in its natural form without cutting or peeling.

My crew each get their own food bowls although since cage doors are never closed, they like to check out each other's dishes! I also "hide" Nutri Berries around their aviary room to encourage foraging so I put a few extra on days I'm away.

Then when I get home I remove all the dishes and serve a community dinner and sit with them while they eat. I hand feed each of them little portions and praise them for being so good while I was out (I overlook the big mess they made of course). Extra head scritches and group play time follows so they know I still love them even though I was out all day!

I appreciate anyone who is willing to read my long-winded story and provide some insight.

My wife and I have an Ekkie and our son has a Nanday Conure. All three humans now have day jobs that require us to get out of the house around 6am.

We have been putting pellets in their bowls at night when we cover their cages. Both birds go straight ot bed and don't touch the pellets until the next day. Another son of ours uncovers the birds around 9am. They get to eat as much as they want during the day. In the afternoon around 4pm I make fresh food which varies from day to day (veggies of all sorts, greens, beans, lentils, whole grain pasta, etc.).

So, they are both eating plenty of good food but the concern is that they are getting too much. The 1.5yo eclectus is a big boy -- by far the largest eclectus I've ever seen. At our last vet visit 6months ago, I was surprised that she said that his keel was a little pronounced and that he could fill out some. She said that feeling his keel would be the best way to see if he under or overweight. Unfortunately, he has always been skittish and we've not been able to get him on a scale to weigh him (target training has not gone well).

We really don't have any reference for our birds' weight or how much to feed them.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.