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Nebulizing with F-10 experiences?

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Tangle Elf

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I spoke to my vet briefly about the possibility of nebulizing with F-10. It's a direction we're considering. I'd like to hear from people with knowledge or experience on it. I'd like to hear what ratio and dose you're using as well as positive or negative effects and anything else that you think would be helpful. I will be using this information to discuss with my vet what the best course of action would be for Judy. He'll probably also discuss it with colleague. If your vet is willing to share their information or experiences, that would be helpful also.

The reason I'm considering F-10 at this point is because it is proven to kill aspergillus spores. The structure of Judy's sinuses is compromised and will be for life. That will contribute to an environment where fungus and bacteria are able to grow, even when her immune system is healthy again. If we can get rid of the spores as well as the hyphae, it will improve her chances of staying asper free.
 

wonderb

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My vet recommends against F10 as it is very drying and can cause inflammation in the respiratory system. Basically, she thinks there are much better alternatives out there. I was interested in using F10 at some point just because I already have it, and it is WAY cheaper than medication. I just got 15 mLs of clotrimazole for nebulizing Olive and it was $120 (3-6 days worth). Terbinafine is 20x that! But ultimately, she convinced me it isn't a viable option as one of the primary reasons the respiratory system becomes susceptible to asper is because the mucous membranes have been worn down. If F10 makes that worse, using it long term will do more harm than good. Of course, that's just my vets opinion. You don't have a very good idea of the scope of Judy's asper, do you? If it is primarily in the sinuses, my vet has clotrimazole drops which she says are a good alternative to nebulization in some cases.
 

Tangle Elf

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My vet and I both are having a hard time finding something else that is known to kill the spores.

As far as the scope, we know it's in her sinuses for sure, we just don't know how bad. With the pseudomonas, sinus damage and possible tumor, it's hard to tell what problem is causing which symptoms. I think for most birds killing the hyphae would be fine because once the immune system is healthy, it should keep the asper spores dormant. Asper occurs pretty much everywhere and most birds fight it just fine until their immune system is compromised. They get treated and if they survive, their immune system gets healthy and keeps the remaining spores in check until something else weakens their immune system. It seems like the spores would only cause an issue with birds that have other things going on. That's my theory anyway.
 

wonderb

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My vet and I both are having a hard time finding something else that is known to kill the spores.

As far as the scope, we know it's in her sinuses for sure, we just don't know how bad. With the pseudomonas, sinus damage and possible tumor, it's hard to tell what problem is causing which symptoms. I think for most birds killing the hyphae would be fine because once the immune system is healthy, it should keep the asper spores dormant. Asper occurs pretty much everywhere and most birds fight it just fine until their immune system is compromised. They get treated and if they survive, their immune system gets healthy and keeps the remaining spores in check until something else weakens their immune system. It seems like the spores would only cause an issue with birds that have other things going on. That's my theory anyway.
Your vet doesn't want to continue with the ampho B? Did she not respond well to it? As far as I know, that is the only drug to truly kill the asper.

I agree with your theory. Olive also had klebsiella and it is hard to know which came first. It's a chicken and the egg thing. At the same time, since every specie is different, we don't really know 100% how to keep their immune systems in good shape which could be enough to get them susceptible.
 

Tangle Elf

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Your vet doesn't want to continue with the ampho B? Did she not respond well to it? As far as I know, that is the only drug to truly kill the asper.

I agree with your theory. Olive also had klebsiella and it is hard to know which came first. It's a chicken and the egg thing. At the same time, since every specie is different, we don't really know 100% how to keep their immune systems in good shape which could be enough to get them susceptible.
We haven't started with the ampho B again yet. The first vet had her on it, but we haven't started it again yet because we can't find anything saying if it kills the spores and right now that's all we're seeing. It seems like we're getting it under control so we're sticking with the terbinafine. We haven't decided for sure whether or not to do the ampho B. I'm waiting for cultures before I make any changes. In the mean time, I'm trying to figure out the best option. I'm leaning toward ampho B because I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of using F-10 that way, but I want more information. I'm happy Judy's improving, I just want her to be completely well...NOW! I'm not a patient person by nature and seeing her with her poor nares sealed shut and not knowing what to do about it kills me.
 

birdlvr466

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Kathie knows a vet that uses F10 in this manner. Check with her.
 
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