My Yellow-crowned Amazon won't eat CHOP/GLOOP

[AlexGrayBird]

I have recently acquired an 8-year old Male Yellow crowned Amazon. I don't have much history on this parrot. I have had him for 3-months.
I started him off on a Pelleted diet. Recently I was told Pellets are not good for Amazons due to the high percentage of Protein in them (+17%)
and it was recommended I feed him a fresh diet of CHOP/GLOOP. Can all you Amazon owners tell me what you feed your Amazons?

 

[Clueless]

Pellets! Roudybush maintenance.

I also give veggies (organic carrots right now).

Treats are senior nutriberries.

 

[AlexGrayBird]

A very knowledgeable parrot owner I know says NO Pellets for Amazons - to dry and wayyyyyy to much Protein.
I give my Amazon 1 Nutriberrie per day.
and now, he has a bowl of CHOP/GLOOP to eat ........he will get used to it (I hope).

 

[Zara]

GLOOP

Gloop? To me that means wet and mushy, runny like puree. Not something my birds would like.

Diced veggie chunks mixed in a bowl with some legumes, maybe some sprouts, maybe a pinch of herbs too is more ideal.

Something more like this (links are under each pic for ingredients);

Source; Pictures - This week’s chop

Source; Pictures - This Week’s Chop

 

[AlexGrayBird]

If you look at many CHOP recipes, you will see that many are not "chunks" of vegetables, but do infact look look like a puree. Check it out.

 

[Hankmacaw]

There are many different "opinions" about pellets. Personally, I take my advice from the experts and professionals - occasionally from someone who has extensive knowledge about birds (but only if I'm provided substantiation).

Amazons (in particular need pellets) because they are generally little fatty patties and one of the greatest dangers to their health. Amazons are the second most likely breed to develop atherosclerosis which is deadly and debilitating.

The silent killer: Atherosclerosis in pet birds (Proceedings)

Atherosclerosis is a devastating disease common in older birds and often associated with sudden clinical decline and unexpected death.

www.dvm360.com

Good pellets are a great insurance policy for a bird to get all of the proper nutrition and trace elements that just almost can't be provided by a diet without pellets. Proteins are a great way to put muscle on your bird as opposed to fat (which eventually kills them). Can you provide me with any acceptable documentation/substantiation that Amazons are particularly sensitive to protein?

The University of California at Davis (along with the Lafeber Company) performed a thirty year test with 30 Amazons. The Amazons received pellets and only pellets for food - these parrots showed no difference in illness or death than a control group of parrots.

Dr. Axelson and Dr. Hess are both well known, highly respected and great veterinarians.

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/amazon-parrots-feedinghttps://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/amazon-parrots-feeding

 

[AlexGrayBird]

The information I received was given to me by a parrot owner of over 30 years who currently owns 4 Amazons, and numerous other parrots. I do consider her an expert and a professional, who was a parrot breeder for many years. She does not recommend the Free-feeding of pellets to her parrots, and yeah she stated that Pellets are >17% Protein which is to high for Amazons. I personally don't believe there are many Veterinarians who are to well versed in the Diet and Nutrition therapy requirements of Parrots. Yeah, they all just wanna "Push-the-Pellets".

 

[Greylady1966]

Than what does she feed her parrots?

 

[Hankmacaw]

What your friend says is just not true. You can look through this list and the only pellets that are greater than 15% protein are labeled "high performance".

Pellets for Parrots

Click the links below to be taken to that section. All Living Things | Caitec | FM Brown's | Goldenfeast | Hagen/Hari | Harrison's | Higgin's | Kaytee | Lafeber | Mazuri | Pretty Bird | Psittacus | Roudybush | Scenic | TOP's Parrot Food | Versele-Laga | Vetafarm | Zupreem I have gone through a...

www.lilmonstersbirdtoys.com

I have owned macaws for 23 years now and always feed them a pellet greater than 17%. Protein is good, very good. It is the basic building block of the body - all tissues and especially muscle and a lot of their energy. A high protein diet is necessary for, " but levels of 10% - 15% of total dietary intake are suggested for maintenance, rising to 20% at times of rapid growth (chicks), egg production, or repair and replacement (recovery from illness or moulting)." Part One - Dietary Needs of Parrots - The Parrot Society UK

Why does she say that high protein is bad for Amazons?

IMO - fats (saturated or trans fats ) are the greatest enemy to the health of an Amazon. Many unsaturated and monosaturated and fatty acids are good and needed but high cholesterol, saturated and trans fats are very bad and should be avoided.

"Conditions resulting from high-fat, high-cholesterol diets:

• Atherosclerosis, which is hardening of the arteries due to plaque formation.
• Hepatic lipidosis (Fatty liver disease), a result of high fat foods or B-vitamin deficiencies.
• Hepatophathies (liver dysfunction), which can be resolved by adding millet to the diet, giving multivitamin injections, and using lactulose. This is a synthetic, non-digestible sugar used to treat constipation. It is broken down in the colon into products that pull water out from the body and into the colon.
• Hepatic encephalopathy, a complication of liver disease. This loss of brain function occurs when the liver is unable to remove toxins from the blood.
• Pancreatitis, hypothyroidism (lack of iodine), self-mutilation, necrotic (dead tissue) crop infection and death.
• Diarrhea, caused by low-fiber, high-fat intake, and poor calcium uptake in the intestines.
• Xanthomas, lipoma, liposarcoma or fatty growths, and lipidosis (fat accumulation).

Bird Nutrition - What Should I Feed My Pet Birds

NEVER GIVE GRIT—IT’S ONLY FOR BIRDS WHO EAT THEIR SEEDS WHOLE. Psittacines (birds in the parrot family) shell their seeds and should never have grit.

www.beautyofbirds.com

 

[Hankmacaw]

I personally don't believe there are many Veterinarians who are to well versed in the Diet and Nutrition therapy requirements of Parrots. Yeah, they all just wanna "Push-the-Pellets".

I take great affront at this statement. Veterinarians are now and for many years have been well educated in parrot nutrition.

Has it occurred to you that some of the reasons that they "push the pellets", is because so many, many owners get bad advice from friends and snake oil salesmen, are too lazy or ignorant to study or are tied to the multitude of "old wives tales" about parrot nutrition.

 

[tka]

It's worth experimenting with different combinations of ingredients and textures. My girl doesn't like anything too wet or mushy, but does like chunks of fruit and vegetables. Offering chunks also allows your bird to pick though them and experience different flavours and textures. This is an important part of enrichment!

Personally I do feed pellets - I simply don't know enough about her nutritional requirements to feel confident meeting them solely through a fresh diet. I don't have the equipment or the expertise needed to regularly test the foods I feed for vitamins and minerals. I live in a part of the world that doesn't get much sunlight and I want to at least know that her vitamin D needs are being met, something that isn't a problem for people who live closer to the equator and who can give their birds more unfiltered sunlight. Birds still need minerals like iodine, sodium chloride (salt) and potassium for healthy functioning.

While wishing to feed an all fresh diet is commendable, there is the potential for lots of nutritional deficiencies if you aren't extremely careful. I would recommend working closely with an avian vet on this, and getting regular blood tests to hopefully pick up on any vitamin or mineral deficiencies before they become a problem.

 

[Clueless]

So if a medical doctor tells YOU something, you will follow the advice of someone you know because their advice will be better, right?

Sorry, that doesn't make sense.

Avian vets learn more about our feathered friends than they do about other animals. I always read and listen to friends about birds but the end result to me says birds need good nutrition. I have no idea how much of each vitamin and I know I don't have the exact same foods they'd find in the wild. I'm trusting in pellets together with fresh foods.

 

[Greylady1966]

My vet and I both believe that getting Howard on pellets has helped him immensely. She wasn't pushing pellets, she was giving me her professional advice on how to improve Howard's life.

 

[AlexGrayBird]

I take great affront at this statement. Veterinarians are now and for many years have been well educated in parrot nutrition.

Has it occurred to you that some of the reasons that they "push the pellets", is because so many, many owners get bad advice from friends and snake oil salesmen, are too lazy or ignorant to study or are tied to the multitude of "old wives tales" about parrot nutrition.

I don't agree with you one bit. Read and follow who you wish........

 

[AlexGrayBird]

My vet and I both believe that getting Howard on pellets has helped him immensely. She wasn't pushing pellets, she was giving me her professional advice on how to improve Howard's life.

I'm very happy for you. Putting "DMV" after your name does not make you an Expert. Sorry to disagree but they ALL push pellets because they don't know a thing about Nutrition.

 

[Greylady1966]

You asked what other Amazon owners feed their Amazons, some of us said pellets and now you are saying all vet push pellets because they know nothing about parrot nutrition? I'm lost on the whole point of you starting this tread. If your happy feeding yours gloop go for it.

 

[AlexGrayBird]

Yes, that's true. I said VETS don't know much about Nutrition, I did not say that Parrot owners don't know anything about Nutrition. I am only concerned about the health of my parrots. Me being "happy" isn't really the first priority. I wanted to hear from other Amazon owners, see how their birds are, and what they're feeding them. There's nothing wrong with sharing information.

 

[expressmailtome]

I do not mean to be rude, but why not just feed your new amazon what this person that you know recommends?

 

[AlexGrayBird]

I do not mean to be rude, but why not just feed your new amazon what this person that you know recommends?

LOL, I'm workin' on it .

 

[MR. Mango]

I think that pellets are a great supplement to a parrots diet, seeing as they can last longer than fresh food which you would have to replace every 2-3 hrs depending on temp and also for the night and early morning since fresh food would spoil. An all fresh vegetable or chop diet would be incredibly hard to maintain especially if you work, go to school, or ever need to leave the house aka majority of people. Plus chop while amazing can often lack important nutrients and vitamins key to a healthy parrot, for example such as vitamin D3 and vitamin A which most pet birds are lacking in, quality pellets such as Harrison's will have that added in to make sure that your pet bird receives all the necessary nutrients. If you are concerned about your amazon eating too many pellets you can weigh the daily amount or measure out a set limit that would be appropriate given his age/species/weight/ etc. This is a great guide to a variety of pellets available Pellets for Parrots .
If you don't mind me asking what is it about this friend of yours that seems more qualified than someone who studied parrots such as an avian vet? and since you place more importance on experience it may be useful to know that many members on AA have been experienced bird owners of 30+ years who have incredibly happy and healthy birds. Just my opinion.

My conure gets a very diverse and well rounded chop every morning and will eat that until either he finishes or until its no longer fresh, after which I will measure out his Harrison's fine daily maintenance Pellets which he will eat as needed or munch on through the night or morning.

I'll tag some more Amazon owners @jmfleish @Elysian