My Scarlett is biting and it needs to stop!

[Shezbug]

Thank you to those that responded. I picked up several good pointers.

Edited to be positive!

Me too!
I’m way off where all you guys are at with experience and knowledge given that Burt has not hit hormone age and is still a sweet baby, every bit of information like this that I can read and take in means my baby boy has a much better chance of me doing the right things to set him up for a healthy happy future.
I got a few great (well needed) reminders and also some new very helpful information.
Thanks all!

 

[Begone]

and behave like it did not happen.

I don't know if anyone really understand how important this is.
Don't react in a human way to a bite. (human being hurt, sending negative energy your parrots way for a longer time)
Our parrots lives here and now, don't understand the way we think and react. That's why it is so important to never punish them or being angry for something they don't understand.
Never take a parrots bite personal, take it as a lesson to learn, nothing else.

Thank you for the condescending advice. You are a prime example of why I don't normally ask "bird people" for advice.

That is so sad. I wonder if you understand that you just insulted one of the people here with really great knowledge about this.
Probably not..

 

[JLcribber]

That is so sad. I wonder if you understand that you just insulted one of the people here with really great knowledge about this.
Probably not..

I am never offended. Because I'm made of rubber. You're made of glue. Poop bounces off me and sticks to you. (And because I know I'm right)

People who follow need a lot of confirmation. Leaders don't require confirmation. They provide it.

 

[Begone]

I am never offended.

That is great, and I did suspect that.
But still it's not OK to insult people trying to help.

 

[Rain Bow]

I started writing this in the early afternoon (pm writing) & finished after you slammed some of the veteran members that have a few hundred years of bird husbandry between them. I tried to get you help & your attitude & comments have me a bit perplexed, because I've seen more veteran posts on your thread then most brand new members get on 1 post @ 1 time.

---------PM writing----------
I will add 3 things. Keep commands simple...

Buddy my Amazon knows the word "No!"​

Always try to use the word "Ow!" Or "Ouch" Before it actually hurts. That means that if they do nip, they will think it is (starting to hurt) before it actually hurts. Less likely to break the skin unless you get chomped to draw blood & trust me, their little brains know those pressures (somehow, & they easily calculate) the pounds per square inch it takes to "No" & "Ow!" Or "Ouch", before blood & breaking of skin occurs.​

​

You shouldn't touch their backs ever as it triggers birds hormonally. Nothing past a birds shoulder or wings. Never ever under wings, unless it's for medical reasons. Think beaks, head, neck & feet.​

​

It's sometimes hard to set them down & walk away while they're screaming @ you. Think of it as a necessary measure to curb bad behavior later for the rest of their years. Rewarding their bad behavior w/ your bad behavior will just cause more bad behavior.​

​

A great big Huge welcome to AA! I hope to see you around the AA house bunches of times. Please keep in mind any stern advice from our family is to save you millions of hours of ripping your hair out later. I thought that "Ooooo, I can do it my way & make it work for the 3 of us...."​

​

I spent since this April attempting to correct my "Ooooo" & re-training Buddy to not scream when I walked out of the room. It's taken a 1/2 of bag of egg noodles to re-train him to whistle call to me & not scream & amazon honk that can be heard 40 - 50 foot minimum from this house w/ every door & window closed.​

​

---------------Night response--------------​

John's been here @ AA since the begining of AA. I've tested & retested his advice. My husband has also. John hasn't been wrong 1 single time. My Buddy's has been here for 3 yrs. this April & he's about 27. His absolute worst offense is the honking & screaming which I caused by "DOING IT MY WAY!!! (My mind said.)" & not John's or the other Veteran members way. I was an idiot!

​

It has been the #1 worst thing to break Buddy of. Biting was a piece of cake. He's bitten me hard & drawn blood a few times in the begining. A Macaw's bite is worse than my Zon's based on the pictures in the following thread.

Bird bite photos (Warning ~ Graphic)

I love my birds as much as life itself but there is a reality to being enslaved to a large parrot. They bite. A "few" of the bites I took photos of. Pain means nothing to me (anymore). :D This is actually the second bite in exactly the same spot. This is the first time he got me there...

forums.avianavenue.com

None of us educate for the humans, it's for the well-being of the bird's 1st & the human owners 2nd, the end result is a better flock, fid & family overall for everyone.

​

John may be blunt but he's not malicious. He wasn't being condescending, but teaching you in his mechanical & thought out way, as is... I personally respect him for not sugar coating things w/ syrup & chocolate w/ a cherry & whip cream on top. Nothing should be taken offensively, just as it is, as if he was a server/waiter dropping a plate in front of you. I'm trying to say that he's a heck of a guy, doing his "Job" as a Dr. or Lawyer for your Macaw's health, & overall family life for everyone in the unit.

I truely believe the ones here teach husbandry, he/we do it for them the birds & the crummy life most fids get. Some here have housefull's of the very worst rescues.

We as "conceded humans" pull birds from nature & put in homes (mainly for status), as long as the bird is an ornament, quiet, inexpensive & unflying & often thrown back into the system if we haven't killed them w/ abuse & neglect. (my father loved Buddy but I believe his 1st 23-25 yrs had an all seed & peanut diet w/ a bit of dried fruit mixed w/ really bad for his health table scraps). Buddy has a permanent vascular & heart issue called atherosclerosis because his diet was the most fatty & high sugar diet around.
Most fids get & can be touched by the system 10 times in 10 years because birds can be generally noisy, messy & Really incredibly loud. People get them new & shiny & find out all their poor qualities & drop them back to be rescued by another who thinks their "cool man!". The people here have birds that have been in this system & give them the very best life they can. I'm talking about birds that only got peanuts & have resperatory mold infections. 1,000 if dollars in vet bills over their life time, birds that are mute & will not come out of the cages & will rip you up if you try to take them out. Birds that have cigarette burns. Birds that self mutilate from ANY even no stress.

Some species of parrots can be heard for 5 miles to hear others in their flocks in the jungle, it's a nature thing. Macaw's & Amazon's being up there on the loudest scale & bite strength scales. It's part of their wonderful smart personality's. I'm sure I've probably written way to much & said more than you might ever even read but it needed to be said.

We're all just attempting to help you & them (fid) stay as a family. We're trying to save you from big mistakes that can take years to fix from the very best trainer. Plain & simply said. I hope you will stay & learn from the very best, "Elite" when it comes to training, nutrition, sexing as in hormonal, home care, cleaning, mechanical, etcetera... This is my home & always will be but the door only remains open if you don't come w/ a loaded shotgun & fast judgements. If you have any ?'s feel free to reach out, we're forgiving & yes poopy & a little sarcastic but we're the type of family you can actually choose to be in or not.

Rain & a lot of help from Buddy

 

[Macawnutz]

Come on guys... Seriously.

My post was more than enough to leave the door open to more communication. I didn't say anyone was right, I didn't say anyone was wrong. I said she could take what she wanted but still continue to seek ideas and help, find what pieces of information seem to fit her situation. Stop shutting the door on members!

Leaders don't need to say they are right to be followed, they are followed because they educated in a manner that was kind and informative. Yes... often maybe sugar coated because it takes more patience to learn then to educate. Ask more questions, get more information, macaws are NEVER black and white. When you share your personal experiences or opinion you leave the door open, when you tell someone they are wrong the door is shut. For shame on a few of these posts! If you have nothing nice to say don't hit "post reply".

 

[TikkiTembo]

@SUSIE074 I've had my feelings hurt more times than I can count since owning birds and asking for advice on different venues, but I have learned to ignore and take what I need and discard the rest. I promise you, the veteran members of this forum won't point you in the wrong direction. I hope you will stick around and at least lurk and read to help your problem. Good luck with your bird, we've got a problem child as well, and it can be very trying!

 

[Monica]

I have a 2 year old male scarlett macaw that I love with all my heart but he is seriously driving me crazy!
He loves to be held and be out of his cage. No matter who gets him out (husband or son) he seeks me out and only wants me.
The problem is that all he does when I hold him is bite. It starts out with tiny little "pinches" but turns into very hard biting. I've corrected him by moving my hand slightly to force him to correct his balance, sternly told him no and don't bite (which he repeats) and put him back in his cage for "time out ".
Any suggestions? I'm honestly at my wits end and it's getting to the point where I don't even want to deal with him anymore. His cage is very large and he has toys both in and out of the cage. I'm am experienced bird owner but I can't figure him out!

@SUSIE074 It sounds to me like your macaw is over-bonded with you and has been inadvertently taught to bite. There is a lot of bad advice out there that is taken as "good" advice simply because it's the advice that "everyone" prescribes to. Just about anywhere else, if you were to ask this same question, you would have 15 people telling you to follow advice "A" and 1 person saying to follow advice "B". Most people would thus follow advice "A" because that's what the majority of people say to do, and advice "B" must be wrong. Here on AA, that 1 person is not a minority. In fact, the advice recommended here is often of choice "B" and that's why many people like it here.

To put it into "dog terms", the people who follow advice "A" are like Caeser Milan (aka "Dog Whisperer"). It's all about force and making the animal do what you want that animal to do until they simply shut down. This can often result in animals that are over threshold, meaning that they are anxious, nervous, scared and ready to snap. In birds, this can result in bites that occur out of no-where. Advice "B" is more like Victoria Stilwell (aka It's Me or the Dog!). Victoria Stilwell's training is more along the lines of teaching the animal the behaviors you do want and avoiding the behaviors you don't want. Reward, reward, reward desired behaviors! This keeps animals under threshold, meaning it keeps them feeling more relaxed and calm, thus they are less likely to react in a negative manner.


So what all does this mean with a macaw?

Well, the more we allow our birds to bite us, and the more we "ignore" this behavior, the more ingrained it becomes for them to bite. Biting is self rewarding. Even if a bird learns to bite less by ignoring them biting, you get bites that occur out of no where, that is, the bird can become unpredictable. If you wouldn't allow a dog to tear into your flesh until they simply "give up", you shouldn't allow a parrot to do this either! Regardless of how big or small that parrot is. We want to set that animal up for success! We do this by changing the environment and our behavior. We learn to read their body language and back off before a bite occurs. Alternatively, we can cue another behavior that is incompatible with biting before the bite occurs. This could be something as simple as targeting their beak onto an object, or retrieving a toy. If a bite *DOES* occur, then don't allow that behavior to continue! Simply get the bird off of you in a safe place. If you aren't near the cage, DON'T take the bird back to the cage! The amount of time it would take to get the bird back to the cage makes it an ineffective "punishment" as the bird could very well be over the behavior and onto something new. As soon as the biting occurs, you need to get him off of you as safely and quickly as possible, even if it means prying his beak from your flesh.

Many people will say that if you don't ignore a parrot for biting, then you are simply teaching them to get their way. This is not the case! Rather, it teaches them that they don't need to bite in order to communicate with us. So the question is, what are they trying to communicate with us?


I would recommend to start training some new behaviors. Target training and station training are two great and simple behaviors to start with! Station training is teaching them to stay put somewhere for a reward. If he has a play stand or gym, you could teach him to station there, then make sure he's kept busy with toys and foraging opportunities so he's less inclined to gravitate towards you while he's out. Target training is teaching him to target a part of his body towards an object. Although step up is a form of target training, when done correctly, in this sense it usually means to target their beak towards an object. That object would be the "target". Target training can be a great way to engage the entire family in interacting with him in a way that he can enjoy!

Once he learns to target, you can train other new behaviors such as turn around, 'big eagle', or many other behaviors which is engaging and fun! To give you an idea of some behaviors he could learn, here's a video of Fargo, the macaw. I don't personally know him, and haven't heard an update in a long while, but what I do know is that he was purchased twice from a breeder and returned each time for being "too aggressive". The breeder chose to turn him into a breeder when the right person finally came along and insisted on buying him over the more friendly female macaws. He became quite the star in his country!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=810023135709888

 

[JLcribber]

Susie is long gone. Too bad for the bird.

 

[rocky'smom]

My advise is this you asked the question, you received answers from a lot people here that have macaws. Maybe some of us are "rough" around the edges but there is HUGE wealth of knowledge here, so use it..
I have worked with a scarlet, and learned some lessons the hard way. JMHO here pinches are way worse then a full on bite. Charlie would pinch pretty darn hard. And 99.9% of the time it was my own fault. I was not watching for the clues and cues that they give.

 

[Monica]

Susie is long gone. Too bad for the bird.

With that attitude, yes. However, you do not know if she's still reading and looking at the thread or if she has truly said goodbye...


I would personally hope that she hasn't been scared off and is still willing to learn from this group.

 

[Monaco]

Guys, I want you all to know that I love this place, and I am here reading every day and making friends I didn't expect. I follow any thread that discusses biting because I know I don't know enough, and glean what I can from them. I do it this way because I have felt like suzie when I posted about my first ever bite, and I figure that was enough trauma for us without adding guilt and shame into the mix. I understand the views, theories, and lectures cognitively, but what is left out of nearly every thread is what TO DO rather than instantly telling the injured person that it's their fault. It can really shut people down, and I still hesitate to ask questions because of that. There are a hundred posts about what not to do, but not many that I have been able to find that say what to do. At least not that I've found by sneaking around the big beak sections, and using the search function.

I just want you guys to know that it can seem harsh, then aggressive when lots of people chime in at the defense of the veteran. It makes it hard to pluck up the courage to post again. Especially in the original post.

 

[Shezbug]

Guys, I want you all to know that I love this place, and I am here reading every day and making friends I didn't expect. I follow any thread that discusses biting because I know I don't know enough, and glean what I can from them. I do it this way because I have felt like suzie when I posted about my first ever bite, and I figure that was enough trauma for us without adding guilt and shame into the mix. I understand the views, theories, and lectures cognitively, but what is left out of nearly every thread is what TO DO rather than instantly telling the injured person that it's their fault. It can really shut people down, and I still hesitate to ask questions because of that. There are a hundred posts about what not to do, but not many that I have been able to find that say what to do. At least not that I've found by sneaking around the big beak sections, and using the search function.

I just want you guys to know that it can seem harsh, then aggressive when lots of people chime in at the defense of the veteran. It makes it hard to pluck up the courage to post again. Especially in the original post.

You are totally correct Kelly......Thank you for being brave and thoughtful enough to share this and highlight how things can be or feel for newer members.
Hopefully this helps remind us all to be a little more tactful and helpful if we know the information being sought.

 

[finchly]

I just want you guys to know that it can seem harsh, then aggressive when lots of people chime in at the defense of the veteran. It makes it hard to pluck up the courage to post again. Especially in the original post.

Excellent post.

We know that because we were all new once too.But a reminder to put ourselves in the others’ shoes is appreciated.

 

[Karen]

but what is left out of nearly every thread is what TO DO

I understood what you’re saying but I wanted to mention, IMO there is so much useful information in this thread about what TO DO. I have been back to it several times to read the takeaways that are helpful to me.

I also don’t believe
most posts are meant guilt or shame a oerson. I believe what they’re trying to convey is that the person plays a role, sometimes a big role in any given situation that is happening with an undesirable behavior (biting).

 

[Karen]

I find it hard to see and scroll the screen on my phone and now that I'm on my laptop. Ugh! I just have to come back to this post and correct ALL my typos!

I understand what you’re saying but I wanted to mention, IMO there is so much useful information on this thread about what TO DO. I have been back to it several times to read the takeaways that are helpful to me.

I also don’t believe most posts are meant to guilt or shame a person. I believe what they’re trying to convey is that the person plays a role, sometimes a big role in any given situation that is happening, when you're seeing and dealing with an undesirable behavior such as biting.

 

[Macawnutz]

Guys, I want you all to know that I love this place, and I am here reading every day and making friends I didn't expect. I follow any thread that discusses biting because I know I don't know enough, and glean what I can from them. I do it this way because I have felt like suzie when I posted about my first ever bite, and I figure that was enough trauma for us without adding guilt and shame into the mix. I understand the views, theories, and lectures cognitively, but what is left out of nearly every thread is what TO DO rather than instantly telling the injured person that it's their fault. It can really shut people down, and I still hesitate to ask questions because of that. There are a hundred posts about what not to do, but not many that I have been able to find that say what to do. At least not that I've found by sneaking around the big beak sections, and using the search function.

I just want you guys to know that it can seem harsh, then aggressive when lots of people chime in at the defense of the veteran. It makes it hard to pluck up the courage to post again. Especially in the original post.

Have the courage Kelly. The veteran banner is nothing more than the length of time you have been a member here.
I was ran off this forum in my first two weeks being a member. It took a long time of reading the forum before I had the courage to post again.

Biting birds are not easy but rule one is avoid the bite. Whatever you have to change to avoid the bite is necessary. If your bird bites while you are walking with him, use a stick to carry him places. If he bites when you are putting him in his cage, stick a nut in his mouth before putting him in. It's just staying ahead of the bites and not allowing them to happen. If they do happen you withdraw attention.

Now this scenario is for a social bird that wants to be with you but has learned biting is a daily occurance. If your bird has zero trust or desire to be with you, you will get different advice. A bird threatening to bite you if you continue yours actions is completely different. If your bird does not want to be touched and is threatening biting if you do, then respect his request.

 

[Monaco]

I find it hard to see and scroll the screen on my phone and now that I'm on my laptop. Ugh! I just have to come back to this post and correct ALL my typos!

I dare you to try it with my phone! I've spent over 1/2 hour on a post when it glitches, and I panic about losing the post.


Yes, this one has a lot of instruction.


I didn't mean veteran like having the banner, but more like the regulars... But that sounds like we're in a bar.

 

[TikkiTembo]

@Monaco I no longer post about behavior problems either. But I love sharing the wins we have and trying to help others!

 

[macawpower58]

Veterans are not the end all, for those who are intimated by them.

We all put on our best faces here.

We don't post poopy cage bars.
That cheese curl in the dish.
Our bird that flew onto the dogs back.
A sack of Walmart seed.
Or any of the other 'less than stellar' stuff we may do.

Anyone online can show what they want.
Don't be intimidated.
Post whatever you need to ask.
Ignore (or explain if you desire) posters that demand you do better.
Take the nuggets that sift through, there always are some.

We all start ignorant. We get better, or not.
Thing is, we all love our birds, and our birds have homes, food, interaction, and are loved.
IMO that's enough.

You don't have to be as good, or better than another.
Be yourself, and love your bird.
You'll do fine here.