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MRSA Infection

theletterv

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Hello all ... New to this forum. I've got a pretty long story here so I'll try to cut it as short as possible.

I have four baby green-cheeked conures who are just about at weaning age. They were sick as babies with a yolk sac infection and were treated successfully with amoxicillin, or so it seemed. It was a long course of antibiotics, and included a shorter period of treatment with enrofloxacin for two out of four (the older two) before we found it was not effective.

That in itself is a long story but I will fast forward to more recently. One of the babies has always been a little behind the others. I began to notice that his poop was a little sour smelling and more watery than usual, so I took them all in to be looked at. Generally bright and healthy-seeming, a little on the thin side but also fledging and weaning so that isn't too unusual. I decided to have a full barrage of fecal tests done on the baby who was presenting with sour smelling poop. Gram stain, something else I forget, and cultures, which included sensitivity tests. Boy, that was expensive, but I thought it was better to be safe than sorry.

So today I got a call back from the vet with the results. Mostly normal bacteria but, lo and behold, a moderate amount of MRSA! Which was shocking and scary to hear. We don't really know how it happened but it is quite possible that it was triggered from the rather lengthy dose of antibiotics, sadly. Luckily, the sensitivity tests showed that a few antibiotics, including sulfa (I forget the whole name of the antibiotic, my apologies) seemed to be effective. There are others we could try but my vet says the others were hard to come by and potentially dangerous to humans.

So we are going to try the sulfa, and actually give it to all four babies because of their close contact ... It looks like there will be a 30 day course of this antibiotic before we will have to test again.

So, in dealing with this rather scary situation, I wanted to turn to a forum of bird people. The vet of course let me know that I was at a risk of infection with MRSA myself, which is scary when I think about how much those babies have scratched me up. I also have recently come down with cold symptoms so I am even more paranoid!

I am basically looking for any advice, any information that anyone might have ... Hopefully someone has experienced a MRSA infection and has come through it. It is very worrying to me. I am concerned now about how I should go about handling the babies, how I should go about cleaning, what precautions I need to make, etc.

I actually have F10 disinfectant that I purchased a while back because of the previous infection I was dealing with, and I've heard this can be useful. I am slightly worried about its use -- for example I think it is only for use on nonporous surfaces? So what should I do with rope perches, toys, etc, that may become contaminated? And also I want to make sure that no harm comes to the babies from the use of the disinfectant of course. Also, do I have to worry about dry particles of droppings that may be in the air when wings are flapped? Of course, I will be very cautious to keep everything immaculate now, so there probably won't be any more of that, but the babies are kept in my bedroom and very close to where I sleep...

Basically, I am totally overwhelmed about what to do next. I'm picking up the antibiotic tomorrow. Any advice at all would be very appreciated ...
 

WendyN

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Gosh I don’t know the answer to your question.
I am glad that you joined and someone will be able to share what they know about your situation.
Welcome.
 

Monica

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theletterv, first off, thank you. Thank you for being vigilant in the health of these offspring and going above and beyond to ensure their health! I know it may be like a "No duh!" kind of thing, but many others can't, or wont, go to those measures.


I would also have to defer to @Hankmacaw since they have experience with this infection. hankmacaw also use F10 and said it helped getting Hank healthy again. :)


There is this little article as well.

Exotic Pet Veterinarian
 

enigma731

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I haven't experienced MRSA with my birds but I'm a human healthcare provider based out of a hospital, so it's fairly common in my line of work. As scary as it sounds, MRSA infection ranges from relatively mundane to very aggressive. I think F10 is a good idea for disinfecting the birds' stuff. I would also talk to your personal doctor about whether you should be tested and possibly treated prophylactically. If you're a relatively healthy person with a decent immune system, it's probably not all that easy for you to catch. Still worth taking precautions, though. The antibiotic is probably trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole.
 

theletterv

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Hello and thank you for your replies! Thank you Monica for that link and thank you enigma for the perspective of a healthcare provider. So MRSA is just staphylococcus aureus that is methicillin resistant and it isn't always extremely dangerous ... but you do hear horror stories about it, and that's what sticks out in your mind. I am very thankful that the sensitivity test showed sensitivity to at least a few antibiotics. My babies are pretty healthy, all things considered, and do not have many symptoms, so maybe that is a good sign. Still, I am very concerned of course. A little concerned for myself as well because I have not hesitated to let them crawl all over me, scratch me up with their sharp little nails, poop on me, etc. Normal stuff that you let your parrots do. I have a doctor's appointment in two weeks so if I feel okay I may just wait until then to bring it up and possibly get tested. It can't hurt anyway.

And yes, I am sure that the antibiotic we're getting is trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole. Such a mouthful! I am currently cleaning everything and getting the unpleasant sense that there is MRSA all over everything I have touched. :depressed:
 

TikiMyn

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Oh what a story! I hope you all get through it okay!:fingerscrossed:
You could even bathe your birds in F10, it is totally safe to use:)
 

Clueless

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Yikes! You have your hands full. I will put you and yours in my prayers.
 

theletterv

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Yikes! You have your hands full. I will put you and yours in my prayers.
Thank you so much. :hug8:

I've mixed up the F10 disinfectant at a 1:250 dilution so I made up a mixture of 500mL water with 2mL of F10. I think this dilution is advisable for serious disinfectant rather than just general use. It smells fairly strong, kind of like a hospital. I am wondering how often I should be using it; to clean every surface after use, what about feeding syringes, medicine syringes etc? Cages, obviously, and dishes, but what about perches, toys? I've got a number of rope perches and also natural wood perches, some with bark still on, and those don't seem especially easy to disinfect. I wonder whether I have to rinse it off of surfaces that may be eaten on/syringes and dishes or whether it doesn't need rinsing. I've read the brochure but for some reason I feel like I've read some conflicting information. Some sources say F10 can be used as a nebulizer and then some say you should wear a mask if you're spraying it, which feels contradictory. Then some people say you have to let it dry before putting birds back into their cages and some say you can even bathe birds in it ... so I don't know how liberal to be with its use.
 

Sarahmoluccan

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@theletterv I'm so sorry you're going through this :( I use F10 and really like it. There's a good thread about it. I'll try and dig it up for you. I haven't gone through MRSA but a friend of mine has and it can be quite scary but my friend make it through ok.

While disinfecting is great you might consider tossing some things :( I went through a phase when my birds seem to get infections lot so I did a major cleanup and also purged somethings too. I know it sucks and can be expensive. But if there's something that you're really worried about disinfecting properly I'd toss it. I also used a mild beach on a few things too.

Good luck with everything and I hope your babies feel better soon
:sadhug2:
 
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theletterv

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@Sarahmoluccan First of all thank you, I truly hope that we all get through this OK.

But yes, absolutely, I will toss things I don't feel can be adequately disinfected. It is not worth risking lingering infection or re-infection!

And thank you so much for linking to that thread. Reading about people's experiences with F10 is reassuring. I have started using it. Not 100% clear on what to rinse and what not to rinse but I assume it needs time to work on a surface before it is properly disinfected. I'm very glad I decided to get this disinfectant a couple months ago. It seems like it might be invaluable.

Another thing that I am not sure about is when to toss or disinfect things. Continually throughout treatment, or closer to the end of it? My guess is that I probably need to continually disinfect throughout their treatment. Maybe daily? Assuming it is shed every day ... which seems probable. I guess my goal should be to try to keep all surfaces very clean and clear of poop.

I'm up late, reading and thinking ... One thing everyone may have noticed is that the MRSA was actually in the baby's poop, while MRSA is mostly known to be a skin infection. My vet said that this is unusual but not unheard of. I wonder whether that changes its transmission at all ...
 

Sarahmoluccan

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@theletterv I understand about concerns about when and how often to disinfect things. Truthfully I'm not sure. Other people might have an answer for you thou, I hope so. Hang in there!! :bluhug:
 

Alien J

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Here the thread about F10.
Thank you for the link.

@theletterv last year my fiancee got a little cut on his arm that got infected. He did a round of antibiotics, but it just got worse. He ended up in intensive care and almost lost his arm (and life). They told us that mrca lives on us always. Sometimes it just goes crazy (kind of like cancer cells). I didn't know birds could get it... I guess anything can.

Thank you for sharing your story with us. I pray your little ones get well soon. Welcome to the Avenue.
 

Hankmacaw

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Both of my birds, my brother, his wife and my beauty operator and a friend have had MRSA. I hate the stuff. Will tell you a funny/not funny story about MRSA and birds. My Vet told me about a client of his whose bird had contracted MRSA and the vet gave him all the warnings and instructions about washing hands after touching the bird and not touching himself until he had washed. Well, the man being aman, didn't listen very good and scratched his wanker without washing. Yep, he got MRSA on his wanker and had a heck of a time getting rid of it, because that area is so nice and warm and damp. Neither the vet nor I had any sympathy for the guy.

The link proved by @Sarahmoluccan is very good on the use of F-10. For awhile after starting the SMP-TMZ, I would use it every day oa all the babies stuff including their feeding apparatus. Get an extra bottle right now - there is a shortage in the US.

My Hank and Jasper were both recommended and prescribed SMP-TMZ for MRSA infections, but Hank was deatlhy allergic to to it and was given the second antibiotic on the list Doxycycline. He had MRSA in his throat and was cured in about four months. Jasper had MRSA in her airsacs and she was cured in about the same amount of time, but had SMP-TMZ and nebulization, because the airsacs are harder to reach with an antibiotic.

Clean, clean, clean and you might think about getting some sterile swabs from your vet and checking the environment (air-conditioning return, wall surface and the box the guys live in for MRSA) I did that and Dr., me and all of his staff were cultured for MRSA because Hank spent half of his life at the vet's office.

You can whip the darned stuff - just be determined and consistent. I hate the crap. We never figured out wher Hank or Jasper contracted the MRSA, but this town is a hotbed of the bug and I probably brought it home to them from a store.
 

Parakeet88

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I work pretty closely with mrsa in a hospital lab, I never knew it could be found in stool. I'm not sure about birds but like others have said symptoms can really vary between individuals. It tends to be a bigger issue with immune compromised people, the elderly and the very young. The actual mrsa bacteria is very common but most healthy people won't develop infection from it. Just make sure to keep any scratches clean and covered, and keep an eye on them for signs of infection. Everyone else has given great advice. I hope all goes well for you and the babies.
 

zoo mom

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First off. I have no experience with MRSA in birds. I am a human nurse. I am going to go at this from an infection control perspective. The first and best way to prevent you getting MRSA is proper hand washing. This means washing hands often and very thoroughly, including between fingers and under nails. This also includes any bare skin that comes in contact with the birds, arms, face etc. Wash your hands both before and after you handle your birds. Wear disposable rubber/vinyl/nitrile gloves and a disposable mask when cleaning the cage, environment, and syringes, bowls etc. This is to prevent contamination to you from airborne particles and transfer from contaminated supplies. Wear long sleeved shirts and long pants when caring for and playing with your birds. Also when cleaning. These items should be worn once and removed and washed when you leave the bird area. This has all been about keeping you and your family members from catching MRSA.

Now on to caring for your birds. If it were me. I would thoroughly clean the birds environment daily for at least the first 2 weeks of treatment. Wiping up any poops as needed. Make up your own disinfectant wipes. Take a small plastic bin with a locking lid. Cut up old or cheap washcloths, towels or T-shirts. Put them in the bin and cover with premixed F10 solution. Then poops are easy to clean. Just grab a wipe and wipe it up. Cleans and disinfects at the same time. Then the rags can be washed and reused. I also would ditch any cloth perches for now and replace them later.

Also syringes and feeding and medical supplies need to be disinfected after each use.
 

Clueless

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I really need to order that stuff. Nobody ill here but if they get that way, I'd be playing catch up and having to wait for it.

@Hankmacaw did you have a link to where to order F10 at? I think there are different formulas, so which one do I order?
 

Hankmacaw

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