Merlin says "not now!"

[BraveheartDogs]

I wanted to run something by the behavior geeks here. I have had Merlin for a few months now. He is awesome, I love him to pieces. But, I have recently noticed a few changes.

Typically, when I offer my hand he immediately goes to step up from his playstand next to me and from his cage. He seems to really enjoy head scritches, so sometimes I put my hand up and he puts his head down as if to say "would you mind just scritching me instead?" I do not scritch if I have asked for a step up, instead I just wait and then present my hand again. When I am going to scritch him I say "scritches" and wiggle my fingers at him.

A few times recently, when I went to get him to step up he opened his mouth and lunged forward a bit. I believe he would have bitten me had I not backed off. When he has done it, I either left him alone or I got a perch, which he steps up onto and continue with what we are doing.

I do not want to reinforce the lunging, however, I also am not willing to force him to bite me by pushing him. My guess is that I need to look for earlier signs of what will trigger this rather than calmly stepping up. I do notice that when he is like this he appears more upright and focused on me. Hmmmm, those may be my early signs. He usually eats breakfast on his playstand and NEVER does this when I go to get him out first thing in the morning.

My plan is to:

1) watch his body language carefully and NOT even bother to ask him to step up so that I don't have to push him to do that. So, working on my skills at reading his body language.

2) continue to use the perch to get him to step up should I mess up and get to this point with him again (my goal, however, will be to not do that).

3) reinforce every single time he steps up with food which is his highest value reward.

Just to be clear, I am not willing to try and force him or push him, so that is not an option.

I felt like it would help me to write my training plan down here.

Thoughts??

 

[mtngirl]

I think your plan sounds great! I wonder, though, if he lunges at you again if you should walk away for a few minutes and then come back and try again with your hand (while showing him that you have a reward for him prior to asking him to step up). I also agree that you should never force him to step up on you. My concern would be that he learns that if he lunges at you that you will have him step up on the perch instead....If he prefers that, than he is being reinforced to lunge at you because he will ultimately get what he wants (stepping onto the perch rather than your hand). And, if the purpose is to have him learn to readily step up on your hand, than this approach may move you guys in the wrong direction. Perhaps you should reserve that course of action for those times when you HAVE to move him immediately for some reason. Otherwise I would just leave him where he is and try again after a certain amount of time. Just a thought....

Have you watched Barbara Heindreich's video "Understanding Parrot Body Language?" It is a great video. I have it if you would like to borrow it.

 

[Sharpie]

For Jasper and several other Zons and Pis on this board, putting the head down as for scritches is a way of saying, "No, I don't want to step-up right now" too. I see it all the time with Jasper. So, rather than waiting and asking again, I take that as a chance to either do something else (target, etc) or I go straight from his refusal to either leaving him be or upping the ante with a reward. Either way, he'll step up on the second request 100% of the time. He knows that I know he's said 'No' to my request and have respected that by backing off, so I need to do something to demonstrate what's 'in it for him' if I need him to cooperate. He knows he doesn't have to make his 'no' more emphatic by biting/lunging or bluffing.

Rather than getting a perch and using that, which in many birds' history means 'business' and that they're going to have to step up one way or another now whether they want to or not, can you just say "okay, that wasn't a successful interaction" and change the mentality? The only time I use a perch with Jasper is when I need him stepped up NOW and I know he's either scared, angry or overstimulated and will bite me, or when we're going to do flapping exercise which he finds VERY exciting. If he's just not feeling cooperative, it's up to me to change the parameters so that he wants to cooperate.

ETA: The asking for scritches rather than the behavior requested is really a very polite way of saying no, now that I think about it. If only they did this MORE of the time, lol!

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I think your plan sounds great! I wonder, though, if he lunges at you again if you should walk away for a few minutes and then come back and try again with your hand (while showing him that you have a reward for him prior to asking him to step up). I also agree that you should never force him to step up on you. My concern would be that he learns that if he lunges at you that you will have him step up on the perch instead....If he prefers that, than he is being reinforced to lunge at you because he will ultimately get what he wants (stepping onto the perch rather than your hand). And, if the purpose is to have him learn to readily step up on your hand, than this approach may move you guys in the wrong direction. Perhaps you should reserve that course of action for those times when you HAVE to move him immediately for some reason. Otherwise I would just leave him where he is and try again after a certain amount of time. Just a thought....

Have you watched Barbara Heindreich's video "Understanding Parrot Body Language?" It is a great video. I have it if you would like to borrow it.

Thank you. You are absolutely right and that is exactly what my concern is. I should clarify because I just realized something I said in my post was inaccurate. I have done exactly what you said most times. I just go to my desk and leave him alone and try in a little bit. I have only done the perch twice out of maybe a total of 5 times (maybe only 4).

It happened a little while ago and I did what you had mentioned, I just walked away. I went back in a little while and he looked fairly relaxed so I asked him to step up and he did so I went to get a treat out for him.

I like your tweek to my plan so I am going to go with that. I will try to watch for subtle signs that he may be a little ramped up and not pick him up when he is like that. If I mess up and he lunges I will walk away and ignore him.

I have two of Barbara's DVDs, Behavior and Training and Training for the Veterinary exam, so no I don't have that one. I also have two of her books and am reading one right now, just because I am wanting to learn more about parrot behavior and body language. I would actually LOVE to watch that dvd!

 

[BraveheartDogs]

For Jasper and several other Zons and Pis on this board, putting the head down as for scritches is a way of saying, "No, I don't want to step-up right now" too. I see it all the time with Jasper. So, rather than waiting and asking again, I take that as a chance to either do something else (target, etc) or I go straight from his refusal to either leaving him be or upping the ante with a reward. Either way, he'll step up on the second request 100% of the time. He knows that I know he's said 'No' to my request and have respected that by backing off, so I need to do something to demonstrate what's 'in it for him' if I need him to cooperate.

Rather than getting a perch and using that, which in many birds' history means 'business' and that they're going to have to step up one way or another now whether they want to or not, can you just say "okay, that wasn't a successful interaction" and change the mentality? The only time I use a perch with Jasper is when I need him stepped up NOW and I know he's either scared, angry or overstimulated and will bite me, or when we're going to do flapping exercise which he finds VERY exciting. If he's just not feeling cooperative, it's up to me to change the parameters so that he wants to cooperate.

This totally makes sense. I actually do believe he is saying no (when he puts his head down for scritches) but I was actually thinking he was just going to see if he could get a head scritch instead because he will usually go ahead and step up after. I really like this idea of asking for another behavior, like targeting (which we are working on) so this is a great idea. If I get out a treat he will always immediately step up, the reason I don't do that every time is that I didn't want to build a behavior chain of ask for step up, he puts head down, I get treat, he steps up. But, there is really no reason he can't be rewarded with a treat every time he steps up at least for now until I decide to reinforce intermittently.

Ok, another plan tweek. No more perch unless I need to. I will start to put him away earlier to ensure that I have time to work through this if I have to leave or something.

All good feedback! Thanks you guys!!

 

[mtngirl]

If you PM me your mailing address, I would be happy to mail it to you! I have watched it a TON of times and probably won't watch it anytime soon. It is a great video!

 

[JLcribber]

Because he's a parrot, he "is" smart and he "does" have a mind of his own as you know Vicki.

He is speaking to you when he lunges. If we misread the signals from our birds, then we have created an “argument.” There is a standoff and usually a bird will tell you his side of the argument by lunging or biting you. Simple as that.

I agree to just walk away and try again. The amount of time you walk away is not important. It is the fact that you respected what he "said" to you and walked away. You can return immediately and try again. When you do try again there has to be something in it for him. (Bribery comes to mind ) JMO

 

[BraveheartDogs]

Because he's a parrot, he "is" smart and he "does" have a mind of his own as you know Vicki.

He is speaking to you when he lunges. If we misread the signals from our birds, then we have created an “argument.” There is a standoff and usually a bird will tell you his side of the argument by lunging or biting you. Simple as that.

I agree to just walk away and try again. The amount of time you walk away is not important. It is the fact that you respected what he "said" to you and walked away. You can return immediately and try again. When you do try again there has to be something in it for him. (Bribery comes to mind ) JMO

I agree and also believe that parrots (actually all animals) are intelligent and have a mind of their own. And, I support him having a mind of his own and communicating his needs to me.

I also agree that he is communicating to me when he lunges, but I don't want him to be pushed to do that. I think if I continue to work on reading his body language I will know sooner when to back off so that he doesn't have to insist.

I am not sure I agree that the length of time doesn't matter, I think it does with him. If I come back immediately, when he has just told me that he wants to be left alone I can see that he is still agitated. It seems like if I just go away for a while and then go back, he is more interested in stepping up.

 

[JLcribber]

I am not sure I agree that the length of time doesn't matter, I think it does with him. If I come back immediately, when he has just told me that he wants to be left alone I can see that he is still agitated. It seems like if I just go away for a while and then go back, he is more interested in stepping up.

Not if you have something he really likes and wants!! He'll change his mind in a flash. All they think about is me, me, me. If you have something he likes/wants he gets his me, me, me.

Your way is fine too.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

Not if you have something he really likes and wants!! He'll change his mind in a flash. All they think about is me, me, me. If you have something he likes/wants he gets his me, me, me.

Your way is fine too.

You're right and I always have something he wants. If I have food he want, want, wants it Truthfully, I am sure that I could use food every time, reinforcing and possibly luring for every step up and he would do it every time. Every single time I have brought out food, he is more than happy to do whatever

I am going to be rewarding EVERY single step up, even, especially when he does it on the first try too and see where that goes. I was trying not to lure every time, but I am going to let that go and do it when he needs it.

Thanks you guys. I knew I could bring this up here and get some great feedback and help fleshing this out. I love this bird and I want to make sure we move forward and that I don't fracture our relationship by pushing him or ignoring his attempts to communicate with me.

 

[Sharpie]

I usually will just show Jasper a treat and then put it in my pocket. If I ask him for anything within the next minute or so when he's still focused on me having the treat, he'll just about do backflips for me. So, it's not necessarily that you need lure everything, just making sure they know they WILL get a reward at some point is usually enough when you're asking them for things they already know how to do. I agree that rewarding him for stepping up on the first request is going to be very reinforcing. Parrots really are fun, and make you think about EVERYthing you're doing. I think they're even more observant than most dogs are.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I usually will just show Jasper a treat and then put it in my pocket. If I ask him for anything within the next minute or so when he's still focused on me having the treat, he'll just about do backflips for me. So, it's not necessarily that you need lure everything, just making sure they know they WILL get a reward at some point is usually enough when you're asking them for things they already know how to do. I agree that rewarding him for stepping up on the first request is going to be very reinforcing. Parrots really are fun, and make you think about EVERYthing you're doing. I think they're even more observant than most dogs are.

Ok, I will try and do that. Last night, I may have already posted this, I asked him to step up and he put his head down and left him alone, then tried again, with another head down. I got out a target stick and he targeted twice for a treat, then he stepped up I am reinforcing every step up he does on his own as well. I am glad I talked about the perch, it does seem like too much pressure, or as someone mentioned, either you or Mntngirl that he may prefer that, either way, it's not a good choice unless I HAD to move him.

 

[Big.Green.Chicken]

This has been a very informative post. I am happy to hear that things are working out well for Merlin stepping up now.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

This has been a very informative post. I am happy to hear that things are working out well for Merlin stepping up now.

Me too! He is such a good boy and my first large parrot, I am trying to really learn a lot!