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Megabacteria :-(

miya

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Hi everyone! Long time no see. My budgies went in today for their first avian vet visit. Their physical exam went really well and the vet estimated my boys are around 3-4 months old :) But after running the fecal gram stain test, she said the sample came back positive for megabacteria. I'm assuming this is what can lead to AGY?

They gave me some amphotericin powder to put into their water for treatment. But unfortunately, that's the only info I received, as the vet said she has no idea how they got it/where it came from. I've been trying to do some research today about it and a lot of pages I found said it's found in low levels in a lot of birds.. But doesn't specify where it comes from.

They're starting on their medicine but aside from that I'm not sure of what else to do for now. Just continue as normal? I have my birds on corn-free pellets, corn-free seed, and they like a few vegetables so far (carrot, kale, and broccoli). I've had them less than a month so still trying to introduce new foods to them.

Does anyone have any info or advice they could offer me? I've been lurking around on the birds online AGY page, not sure if anyone had any other really good pages to offer. I'm really worried about them.. I know AGY is a big killer. I'm hoping the medicine helps so it doesn't get worse :(
 

Sarahmoluccan

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I'm very sorry to hear about the fecal test coming back positive for megabacteria. I'd do a deep clean of their cage and toys and throw away the things that can't be disinfected. I really like using a product called F10. I'm afraid other than that I'm not much help. But @Hankmacaw and @Macawnutz are very knowledgeable :)
Best of luck with it!!
 
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SquawksNibbles

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Oh no, I’m so very sorry about the diagnosis of the illness. :sadhug2:

@Lady Jane seems quite knowledgeable on AGY, having unfortunately experienced it with one of her birds, I believe.
 

finchly

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Thats the correct medicine for it. Keep everything clean, change water often, maybe give some probiotics after you complete the ampho. Just do what you’re doing!
 

PoukieBear

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Mega means "big" so I don;t know what they mean by big bacteria.

Seems it is a aka for the yeast!

Megabacteriosis in Birds - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost



AGY is known by a few different names, Megabacteria being one of them. The other common name for it is Macrorhabdus (which is what my vet goes by).

AGY is usually passed from bird to bird, so it's likely that the parents of these little ones are also carriers of it. It's very common in budgies, and many do carry it without ever showing signs of being ill. (Hence why it's important for regular vet visits). If one of your birds is infected, then all of the birds in your home should be treated for it as well.

Keep us posted on how your little ones are doing, and best of luck!
 

Macawnutz

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AGY and Megabacteria are the same thing. It was first called Megabacteria and the name was changed when they actually found it to be a fungus and not a bacteria.
 

Lady Jane

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PB is correct. Because your budgies are so young it is highly likely the parents of the budgies are carriers and passed it to all of their babies. Were they from a pet store? If caught early the Amphotericin B will be effective. I speak from experience on this subject having fought AGY in my budgies over the years. It is my personal opinion that feeding fresh corn can contribute to making a budgies GI tract more friendly to the growth of yeast. I no longer feed fresh corn. Yeast will grow better in a "sweet" environment so try not to feed any food with sugar or honey. Although it is not a cure adding apple cider vinegar to the drinking water helps to create a more acid environment. I still do this for 1 week out of every month. 2 tsp. per quart of water and the vinegar is the raw kind that will say unfiltered or mother on the label. The vet should do more crop swabs after treatment as a follow up to test for effectiveness of the treatment. Since you are putting the Ampho in the drinking water I would hold off on the vinegar. Giving the Ampho by beak in syringe may be better but due to their young age the vet suggested the water. It certainly is less stressful for you and the babies. Good luck and please keep us updated. Its a good thing you took them for a check up. Many people do not.
 

Hankmacaw

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AGY can be deadly and is in many budgies (and other birds). Amphothericin B is the only recognized cure for AGY, Ampho B is quite toxic. especially to the liver. Watch your babies closely for any side effects and let the vet know immediately if you see any yellowing of the poop - either urine or urates. If the feces become puffy and pale olive let your vet know. The one thing I know, from fighting a fungal infection (aspergillosis) for years, is that mostly fungal infections aren't treated long enough. Be sure you ask your vet when the current medication is done if you might need to repeat the treatment in a few weeks.

For liver support Milk Thistle is the go to medication (actually it's an herb) and has been well tested over the years. Ask you vet if the birds shouldn't be given Milk Thistle to help counteract any liver damage.
 

miya

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Good morning everyone, thanks so much to all of you and your responses! I dosed their water this morning (I only give them bottled drinking water, can't say I trust the pipes in my apartment that was built in the 80's with no remodeling... shudder), and the good news is the taste doesn't seem to be bothering them, as they're drinking normally. :) So at least they're getting the meds into their system, woo-hoo!

They are pet shop budgies, so my guess was either it was from parent to baby, as you guys suggested, or possibly contracted from another bird their age in the cage at the store. I only have my two budgies, so at least I don't have to worry about another bird in the house contracting it from them! The vet did mention she's glad I brought them in when I did, so I think I did luckily manage to get them in soon enough for it to be spotted. I'm really hoping the medicine should work then!

For liver support Milk Thistle is the go to medication (actually it's an herb) and has been well tested over the years. Ask you vet if the birds shouldn't be given Milk Thistle to help counteract any liver damage.
Oh jeez, this wasn't mentioned to me at all! :( I can't remember exactly how long the dosage is for but I think it's 8 days, I'll check the vial once I'm home from work. The vet did mention after I'm done dosing them to drop off another fecal sample for a follow-up test. I'll call this morning to see if I can get an answer about if I can give them milk thistle.. Would I be able to use the kind they sell at the store in the vitamin section or would I need some sort of mixture prescribed from a vet?

Also, any suggestions on a cleaning schedule for them? We didn't get home til late yesterday so after I'm off work this afternoon I'll give their cage a nice deep cleaning. I don't want to make them super stressed by taking everything out constantly then putting it back but I DO want them to have a clean, safe environment.. So any tips on how often I should take all their stuff out for cleaning while they're ill? Majority of their perches are manzanita. I don't have F10 or other solutions like that on hand at the moment, so could I use a water and vinegar mixture to clean their perches in the meantime? Also, what would be the best way to disinfect their toys? Same thing? Can a soft rope perch be disinfected as well? And speaking of cleaning, is dawn dish soap (scentless) safe to use for washing their stainless steel water/food bowls? :unsure1:

Sorry for the huge ramble, awfully worried to be honest and just trying to make sure I do all that I can so that they can have a good recovery!
 

Hankmacaw

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It is just good practice to give your parrots bottled water. Just make sure it's the Spring Water and not the distilled water. Distilled water doesn't have any of the minerals that they need.

The milk Thistle I use is for humans and I buy it from Amazon. This is what I buy. Amazon.com: Nature's Answer Alcohol-Free Milk Thistle Seed, 1-Fluid Ounce: Health & Personal Care The most important thing is that it is alcohol free.

Dawn detergent is great, but you do have to rinse it off. Vinegar and water is somewhat effective, but F10 is the only disinfectant for birds that kills virtually everything that effects them. You can buy it here. Amazon.com : F10SC Veterinary Disinfectant (200ml) by F10 SC : Pet Health Care Supplies : Pet Supplies . I'd go ahead and get the 200 ml bottle, because the 100ml bottle is $20 for 1/2 as much.

Until you get the F10 (and I highly recommend it) Soak all of their stuff in vinegar and water (50/50) and let dry in the sun. If there is no sun you can dry stuff in the oven at the lowest temperature. Once you get the F10 do a thorough cleaning and disinfecting of the cage and toys, etc. again and keep a spray bottle of 250/1 dilution (Water/F10) handy to spray stuff with. Spray and wipe once a day and deep clean once a week until they are declared well. Of course change their papers daily or twice a day until this is over.
 

miya

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I called the vet this morning and asked about the milk thistle. She said the dosage is low enough that it shouldn't cause them any liver issues and told me not to do milk thistle regardless because I'd have to do it orally via syringe and that it'll be too stressful for them. Ugh.. :confused: I ordered some F10, guaranteed to be here no later than Monday. Their medication runs until at least Tuesday, so that gives me some time to work with getting everything deep cleansed with the F10 before their dosage is up. In the meantime, I'll work on cleaning up everything with the vinegar and water solution. I'm assuming the 250:1 solution for the F10 is in mL, correct?

On the bright side, the birds are still getting used to free flight, but they took coming out of the cage pretty well yesterday. Aside from one brief instance of panic-flight they stayed on my finger and let me carry them from big cage to travel cage.. I wish I had gotten video of them once I got home, I got one back in their big cage, and the other hopped up on top of it and was pattering around on top staring down at the other through the bars, like, 'how do I get down there with you'! :roflmao:
 

Hankmacaw

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Yes the measurement is in ml. Milk Thistle can be put in their water. A few drops per container should be fine. It is almost impossible to overdose a parrot with Milk Thistle. There is lots of information about Milk thistle on the internet.

Nutritional Management of Liver Disease in Birds | LafeberVet
Antioxidant supplementation

Elevation of liver enzymes alone does not generally warrant a dietary change, however if liver enzymes are consistently elevated, supplemental antioxidants may partially protect hepatocytes from further damage. Healthy hepatocytes maintain an elaborate antioxidant system. Interruption of the free radical scavenger defense system by inflammation, infection, hypotension, and/or accumulation of copper is thought to play a major role in the pathogenesis and the progression of hepatic lesions. Dosing, efficacy, and the exact mechanism of action of these supplements is not fully understood, however antioxidants are known to be more effective when given in combination because of their synergistic action.

  • Silymarin (milk thistle): 100-150 mg/kg divided q8-12h
  • Vitamin C: 20-50 mg/kg IM q1-7d
  • Vitamin E: 0.06 mg/kg IM q7d or 15 mg/kg PO once
 

Lady Jane

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When I treated the second budgie I had that came down with AGY (from fresh corn I am sure) it was with Ampho for 10 days. Since I observed the symptoms early on just 10 days was effective. I did not give any Milk thistle because the treatment was of short duration. However the budgie that died was on Ampho for 30 days with other medications for vomiting . I think he had just about everything that was suggested and still he deteriorated and lost weight plus looked awful. When he was in the wasting part of AGY I decided to end the suffering. I think your vet caught this early for your birds and they will get well. I do not get budgies from a pet store. I did contact the breeder of the first lost budgie and the breeder had his flocked checked for AGY and they was none. That is part of the reason I am so against feeding fresh corn to small birds.
 

miya

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Thanks for your input guys. Since I'm waiting on the F10, I'm working on soaking their toys and perches in the vinegar and water solution right now. I'm guessing the easiest way to go from here would be to scrub down the travel cage first so I have a place to put them when I clean their big main cage.. Just spray the cage down with the solution and wipe clean for now until I get the F10? Poor things looked so confused when I started taking some of their stuff out!
 

finchly

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Yes that is correct.

I wipe cage floors with a very mild bleach solution daily if I don’t have F 10
 

miya

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You are doing such a good job. If I were a budgie I would want to live in your home.
omg, this made me smile so hard, thank you for cheering me up :xflove:

Took me forever since I had to rip everything to shreds to wash and such but it's finally done! Sparkling clean from top to bottom, and I rearranged some of their perches and toys inside the cage. They seem to be liking it :D I'm so proud of my little guys too, I gave them some millet to snack on while they were on my finger and they calmly let me move them from cage to cage! This is the first time that they haven't panicked when I took them out. Progress! :loveshower:
 

miya

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Their medicine is for 8 days, so Tuesday will be their last dose. They seem to be feeling better already from what I can tell, their appetite has increased and they're flying around the cage a lot more. They don't talk much, though. One makes a lot of single chirps. The other I've heard make some angry squawk-chatter sounds when he was annoyed at his buddy, though not much else aside from that. I haven't heard them sing or make constant budgie chatter yet. Vet is thinking they're both male, about 3-4 months old. I've had them about a month. Is it because they're too young? Still not used to their environment? Just a part of their personality? The vet mentioned, when I went last week, that aside from the bacteria issue they look great.. I also leave a radio on for them for background noise. Any ideas? :huh:

The F10 also came this evening. The boys are going to bed in a few minutes so I'll work on scrubbing their stuff down with it tomorrow!
 

Lady Jane

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My budgies really react to the bird sounds on YouTube. Especially the budgie sounds. I have a kindle fire and sit it close to them for hours while playing music with bird sounds. One time they crawled up the screen to see the budgies. They actually watch the videos!
 
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