Yeah, that too.
Which is why I won't consider it until I move to a larger place where noise isn't an issue.
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MBS (Multiple Bird Syndrome) AKA Just one more...
- Thread starter Theresa
- Start date
Which is why I won't consider it until I move to a larger place where noise isn't an issue.
avianxandra
Walking the driveway
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- 9/22/12
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- Alex
Two budgies here and I'm waiting a while before considering another fid.
I have multiple species because I love the interactions of those species and especially their vocal calls. I would never keep a single cockatiel ever again; they need a flock of some sort, in my opinion. Even Gracie Tiel at her most loving needed a mate of her own kind. I temporarily became less important to her while she brooded her eggs and raised her babies, but she visited me every day, getting pets and treats, before going back to being momma bird. Some of my tiels are rescues that do not want human interaction, yet they have learned to come to me when I have treats and take treats from me, then go back and enjoy their flock. I make myself available to every bird every day for attention or no, according to their wants. And I would also never again keep an individual lovebird; they do much better with a mate, but you do have to keep after them every day to keep them tame and handleble. Oh, I have default parakeets now; left on my porch by a coward who abandoned them! Again, budgies need a flock, in my opinion.
Every poi I have ever had (Hobbs Meyers, Trixie Meyers, Sunny Senegal) had been handfed babies from incubator hatched eggs and wanted nothing to do with other birds of their kinds. I had remotely hoped Trix and Hobbs would find one another attractive and mate and give me the gift of little Meyers, but.... OK. Didn't get Trix with that goal, but it would have been OK with me. I have stopped interviewing Senegal cocks for Sunny. She has no interest in them.
The only other birds I have are canaries and I have them for their beauty and their song. Three brothers and a sister in a flight cage. Happy birdies and a wonderful addition to my birdroom. No breeding to take place; all eggs to be aborted. My one little vanity, canary song in the birdroom.
Every poi I have ever had (Hobbs Meyers, Trixie Meyers, Sunny Senegal) had been handfed babies from incubator hatched eggs and wanted nothing to do with other birds of their kinds. I had remotely hoped Trix and Hobbs would find one another attractive and mate and give me the gift of little Meyers, but.... OK. Didn't get Trix with that goal, but it would have been OK with me. I have stopped interviewing Senegal cocks for Sunny. She has no interest in them.
The only other birds I have are canaries and I have them for their beauty and their song. Three brothers and a sister in a flight cage. Happy birdies and a wonderful addition to my birdroom. No breeding to take place; all eggs to be aborted. My one little vanity, canary song in the birdroom.
I have had my bouts of MBS but am happy to say that I have not gotten any birds for over a year. A few have tugged on my heartstrings but the combination of not a lot of $, 2 bird aggressive birds, living in an apartment, and having a dad with bird allergies has kept me in check.
Nevermores Mum
Sprinting down the street
Tiels are generally such easy going birds I wouldnt imagine there is too much chaos... Plus, you dont have dozens of birds. Maybe its just me, but between playtime, cage cleanings and meal preperation (I feed Holistic diet so theres endless daily chopping & slicing), and training I definitly spend about two hours JUST meeting my birds needs. I guess I do keep "needy" species though. I can only base my opinion on my personal expirience. For example, I know a lady with 21 birds... To me, thats hoarding.
21 birds does seem like a lot to me, unless you don't work and most of them are breeder or aviary birds. I like to have a personal relationship with all of mine who will allow it, though, and I have no interest in breeding, so I would never have that many. If nothing else, at the end of the day cage cleaning and food prep would be a full-time job.
I don't think 21 birds is hoarding!
That person may have 3 pet birds and 18 ex breeder rescued birds.
If they provide a big cage, great diet, enrichment, vet care, etc, how in hell is someone a •••• hoarder?
I have 10 birds currently.
And 5 are handsoff birds. 5 roam the home ad CHOOSE when to come to me when I am home. My guys do NOT need 2 full hours of handson attention! That makes a needy dependent bird. And I have 4 cockatops. There is no way in hell will I teach my birds that neediness and dependency is alright. How do you live with such needy dependent birds?!!!!
My guys mingle, fly, play and occasionally hop on me, cuddle and steal my food before they're off doing independent stuff when I'm home.
I think its utterly rude to say someome with 21 birds is a hoarder. To me, giving two full hours of direct handson needy attention is not good for a parrot....
That person may have 3 pet birds and 18 ex breeder rescued birds.
If they provide a big cage, great diet, enrichment, vet care, etc, how in hell is someone a •••• hoarder?
I have 10 birds currently.
And 5 are handsoff birds. 5 roam the home ad CHOOSE when to come to me when I am home. My guys do NOT need 2 full hours of handson attention! That makes a needy dependent bird. And I have 4 cockatops. There is no way in hell will I teach my birds that neediness and dependency is alright. How do you live with such needy dependent birds?!!!!
My guys mingle, fly, play and occasionally hop on me, cuddle and steal my food before they're off doing independent stuff when I'm home.
I think its utterly rude to say someome with 21 birds is a hoarder. To me, giving two full hours of direct handson needy attention is not good for a parrot....
To be fair, Mercedez, I think having two hours when you are available to each bird is good. Not that you have to be cuddling or directly interacting with them, but just being there. I know when I spend less than that around either my tiels or Boris, I feel like our bond is in danger of weakening.
Someone with 21 birds could be a hoarder, or not. It all depends on the situation.
Someone with 21 birds could be a hoarder, or not. It all depends on the situation.
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Nevermores Mum
Sprinting down the street
Mercedes, I am truly sorry my comment upset you. But saying "that person could have 3 pet birds and 18 breeders is inaccurate in the situation I was describing. She has "rescued" these birds and doesnt breed atall. I reffered her to a place in the area that does classes on bird ownership, proper care etc. I am hoping she will see she has too many. Right now she has their out of cage time and cleanings on a rotation. They are NOT cared for properly. She means well & part of it is she is lonely. I guess what I am saying is, if you cant have a personal relationship with each bird, whats the point? And also, sorry, but spending two hours a day training, cleaning & feeding my birds isnt making them Needy birds... Its keeping them mentally stimulated AND one is still a baby who NEEDS to be trained and handled.
Well, I think you overstate several points, but I'll partly agree with you on the necessity for this thread, and about the "dozens" of birds part. I do think that at some point, in a home setting, as the numbers rise, it does become about the numbers. To think that the numbers aren't relevant is not entirely rational, because there are only so many hours in the day for care and cleaning, for monitoring interaction and flock dynamics, etc. And, we've all seen the "overwhelmed caregiver" hoarding situations, which are tragic and horrifying.
But, I'm also going to agree with those who have responded to you and say that in certain cases, individual birds don't need two hours of time from their owners each day. In a healthy pair or flock situation, they do keep each other entertained, and they prefer it that way. It's only natural.
And, finally, I, for one, find your comment about pairing up birds as a method of helping to address behavior issues to be a bit one-sided. I paired up my Hahn's macaw to help with a behavioral issue (feather destruction), and it worked very well indeed. My lonely, depressed, plucked bird became a happy, chipper, fully feathered bird. Here is the result of my "stunningly irresponsible and illogical thought process":
To be fair, though, I didn't expect it to "spontaneously" correct the behavior, and I did thoroughly evaluate the situation and think through the addition.
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Nevermores Mum
Sprinting down the street
Thank you for the FAIR assesment of my statement. I appreciate the fact you tried to see my point. As for your situation, getting a friend worked and thats wonderful. It often does in situations with knowledgeable bird owners. I was more meaning people who assume a sun conures screaming will cease with another sun or a parrotlets cage territorial behavior will lessen by getting another one. No, you will likely just end up with TWO screaming Suns or a Parrotlet that is more territorial to protect its new friend... And thats assuming they like eachother... No gaurentees of that. I used to see it ALL the time at the shop I worked at.
Yes, I think I see what you mean. In that case, it would amount to little more than "throwing another bird at the problem." Clearly, outcomes depend on how it is done and the individual circumstances involved. Not every problem can be solved with companionship. Some problems would be made worse by it. Personally, though, I think that conventional wisdom can become sedimented into a sort of hard-and-fast bird board mantra like "don't ever get a bird for a bird," which I've seen more times than I can count. And I really don't like hard and fast rules like that, because they don't fit all contingencies. In some individual cases, that might be precisely what the person needs to do. So, what I would like is for us each to take the time to evaluate the individual situation and see if an addition might be warranted. If not, then, we should definitely not promote the idea and certainly not across the board, but I don't like to think of what would have happened with my Max if I'd merely taken that very common advice to heart and left him alone. There is no one rule that fits all situations.
blanket statements containing 'always' or 'never' are rarely accurate.
and generalizations are generally wrong.
MBS is a serious pitfall that any well meaning, big hearted person can fall into. The antidote is the mantra 'we cant save 'em all'.
Just being in the room is secondary interaction. One on one interaction for 2 whole hours just isn't good for cockatoos. My guys can hop on me off me whenever they want to. I have 4 playstands and 3 cages in the dining/living room and my 5 guys all mingle. Moby is on my the most buf none of my toos wants 2 full hourz. Moby is always near or around me but he isn't getting 2 whole hours of one on one. They all get 4-5hrs per day out of their cages when I'm home. And they choose what to do with it. And Moby is the only one that chooses to be near be constantly (not always on me).
I just don't aant me or others to be made out as hoarders. I'm definitely not a hoarder. I truly care for my birds and do best by them at all times. I try to do my best all the time.
Remember 21 parrots in individual cages is a lot of birds and a lot of cages to clean.
But I remember a time when I was 15 and had 40finches, canaries and society finches and my budgies and house sparrow and starling. Amd I had a 12ft aviary for all my finches. My budgies and my handraised sparrow and starling had their oan cage. So I had 40 birds and was not a hoarder. I had aviary birds.
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Sorry for the typos, I'm on my phone and the bus is bouncy.
Nevermores Mum
Sprinting down the street
We are all individuals. Our birds are also very individual. So true. Passions often run high here on AA. That shows how much we each care. What works for me, certainly wont work for all others. I will bow out buy saying this: just to be clear, I have never judged anyone here on AA or labeled them a hoarder, or anything and I meant no offense. I think you are all caring owners. But at some point, I do think we all have to assess our PERSONAL limitations. My flock size id kept small because I WANT to have time with each bird individually for as long as that bird or I would like... Not be rushed to meet the needs of another. Thats MY preferance.
Nevermores Mum
Sprinting down the street
Haha, I am on my phone too... And yes, lots of typos on mine too!
Thanks for clearing that up. I'm sorry I got alittle defensive. My brothers sometimes joke and say I'll be a hoarder one day. My darn mother said it too and she has 5 birds.
I know my personal limit. I feel 5 big birds who requires this type of lifestyle is probably a good flock. 5 little birds in their cages are all I need as small caged birds.
I do one day want a U2 aviary/rescue with outdoor U2s. But 5 large indoor birds is a good size flock for me
I know my personal limit. I feel 5 big birds who requires this type of lifestyle is probably a good flock. 5 little birds in their cages are all I need as small caged birds.
I do one day want a U2 aviary/rescue with outdoor U2s. But 5 large indoor birds is a good size flock for me
Nevermores Mum
Sprinting down the street
No worries ATALL... I am admittedly not "the best with words" & I am often misunderstood because my statements sound far better in my head! Ha! Also, if your family has joked about it, I could see it being a "soft spot subject." No hard feelings.
Kacie, we all have our own view of what an ideal relationship with a parrot would be and I am sure many of us would not agree with many others of our group on even this one point. I love flocks of birds. I can remember being transported when I would be standing in the middle of a flock of ground feeding starlings or pidgeons and they would all suddenly take off around me, seemingly listing my soul into the heavens with them. I was four years old and standing in the Botanical Gardens in Baltimore, very close to the Thinker statue (I am telling my age). This sensation happened over and over throughout my childhood whenever I found myself inside a flock of birds. My heart would be in my throat, my breath shallow and fast and my soul seeming free with the birds. Amazing feeling! I honestly would go to local parks (we moved around a lot when I was a kid) and I would collect bread crumbs and stale bread all week to make up a huge bag full of bird feeding crumbs and deliberately walk around an area of a park dropping the food until I had a respectable flock of birds around me. Then I would sit down and wait for the flock to make their move. My family ended up settling in Harrisburg, PA and I went to the Capital grounds at least every other week to 'feed the birds' (I would tell my Mom. She allowed it because I would take my little brother and even my little cousins with me and for an entire afternoon, Mom and her sister were free of kids and could just be sisters again and enjoy a day together. Mom never knew I was going to the park to fly with the birds!
My mixed flock of cockatiels, lovebirds and parakeets often give me a small part of that soulfreedom when they do flock flights in the birdroom. I once had a seventeen bird cockatiel flock and have had to let it dwindle due to my financial situation. And as I said, the birds, except for the budgies (haven't had them long enough for training yet) come to me one on one daily and we interact as much as they want. Slowly, as the birds get better acquainted with me, they will become tamer and want more interaction; but it is all on their timetable, not mine.
Yet with Sunny Senegal (and it was with Trixie Meyers before her death) it is a one on one bonding. Very close, very physical and emotional between us. Some days two hours together isn't enough, sometimes too much, depending on how Sunny is feeling that day. Usually the minimum is two hours, though.
Yeah, we all have our relationships with our birds and each one of those relationships is a one on one empathic and physical bond, never to be again between that bird and us; as the bird is a one off personality, just like our own personality. I cherish my birds and our relationships, because when they are gone, it is over and I will not miss one little bit of that rare and wonderful interaction.
I'm sorry. I am always so long winded. I will try to limit stories in the future. More fact, if I can, shorter posts needed.
My mixed flock of cockatiels, lovebirds and parakeets often give me a small part of that soulfreedom when they do flock flights in the birdroom. I once had a seventeen bird cockatiel flock and have had to let it dwindle due to my financial situation. And as I said, the birds, except for the budgies (haven't had them long enough for training yet) come to me one on one daily and we interact as much as they want. Slowly, as the birds get better acquainted with me, they will become tamer and want more interaction; but it is all on their timetable, not mine.
Yet with Sunny Senegal (and it was with Trixie Meyers before her death) it is a one on one bonding. Very close, very physical and emotional between us. Some days two hours together isn't enough, sometimes too much, depending on how Sunny is feeling that day. Usually the minimum is two hours, though.
Yeah, we all have our relationships with our birds and each one of those relationships is a one on one empathic and physical bond, never to be again between that bird and us; as the bird is a one off personality, just like our own personality. I cherish my birds and our relationships, because when they are gone, it is over and I will not miss one little bit of that rare and wonderful interaction.
I'm sorry. I am always so long winded. I will try to limit stories in the future. More fact, if I can, shorter posts needed.
