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Learning to fly

Greylady1966

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It really bothers me that Koko doesn't fly, or even try. I might have the chance to rent a large indoor area once a week to take her in to practice. I don't know if it's bothering me more than her, but lately, I get somewhat depressed about it. I'm wondering how late is too late for her to learn.
 

Pixiebeak

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Well I think it's never to late! My quaker rescue was reported to be 10yrs old but my veterinarian think was closer to 20y when I got her.
She definitely had never learned and was always clipped. She wouldn't even hop to a perch an inch away. She also had moderate to sever wing stricture. She was unable to extend wings.

I did some mild wing stretches with her. I encouraged her to hop just an inch or 2 from my hand to the bed or the couch. Oh so slowly from higher and higher. Encouragement to hop a short distance from my hand to the top of her cage. It was well over a year before she started fluttering. 2 years before she could fly 6 to 10 feet but only land on something big like furniture or the floor. She slowly improved over the next couple of years to about 20 feet she can fly and land on a perch..to be able to fly up from floor to top.of cage perch. Abd do very wide turns. She not great at directions changes still , can't do laps around the room. But she can definitely choose places to fly to sbd flies every day now !

How old is yours? Can they extend their wings and flap? Like at bath time? Do they do any wing assist perch jumps?
 

Greylady1966

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Koko's in her 30s, no perch jumps and very rarely opens her wings all the way.
 

Pixiebeak

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Koko probably had wings clipped before learning to fly as a baby. Its classic to not have the confidence to jump as an adult if primarys cut as a baby. Because they are clumsy as babies and use their wings and all those feathers to help balance when hopping. Without them they get banged up and have falls. It hurts and they loose confidence.

Thats something you can help him with. And that also will help with flying. Provide a lot of climbing stuff, like cargo nets , big thick hanging ropes with knots tied in and spaced out. I don't know what you Provide currently? But a hanging maze of stuff , and things they need to lean over and grab to climb up to a swing or perch . It can take a combination of food bribes , praise, luring and targeting to get them going at first. Things to duck under or climb through. It really will build confidence.

Doing as I mentioned with targeting very short just at the beak tip if they are fully leaned over hops. Its OK if they use beak at first but make just psst a comfortable lean and grab distance. Build up from there.

Landings is what's most scary to them at first, after all the falls they have had. The bed and the couch Provide big soft Landing. You will have to adjust to whst you and your bird think is ok without breaking trust. I used the lean down from hand to a to yummy treats on the bed , and a little nudge. To farther away smvery slight adjustments. Keeping it postive and so much praise. Its very fluid. To at one point tossing her a few inches to the bed, just high enough she would spread wings a little before Landing. Making it a fun game. And increase further to a little flutter. She also started doing the jumps on her own.

Sometimes with spray bath you can get them to spread wings . Does that work with yours?

Hopefully you get others ideas and input too.
 

flyzipper

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The question reminds me of the common disclaimer, "Consult a Doctor Before Beginning an Exercise Program".

Does Koko have any medical reasons that may inhibit her ability?

If she does embrace the opportunity, don't be surprised if she exhibits heavy breathing at first (which should return to normal after a minute), and I'd limit flights if she doesn't do it herself (just like us, sore muscles are a thing for birds when they haven't been used for a long while).

Once Oscar's wings grew back and I confirmed he could fly, it benefited his endurance by having his water and different food across the room, so he has the motivation to fly periodically throughout the day (he follows me now as well).

rent a large indoor area
Remember it's more difficult for inexperienced birds to fly down, so audit the area to look for high locations she may land on, and ensure you have a long enough t-stand to reach.

When Oscar first flew out onto the support rods in my space, I thought, "I hope you can make it back dude, because I can't reach" :)
 
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Kassiani

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I'm in the same position with Opie. He has fully feathered wings, but is not confident at all in his ability to fly--although he has a time or two. I'll be interested to follow your progress with Koko!
 

Shezbug

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I have seen and heard of many older non flyers being encouraged to fly, I know we have a few members who helped their birds realise they could fly.

I think with an older bird who does not fly I would want vet clearance before trying to encourage it incase there is a medical condition that could explain the lack of flight- Birdie (approx 15yrs old) does not fly and I do not believe he will ever be capable given how his wings sit and how hard it is for him to extend his wings.

You can start with her on a perch and ask her to step to you, you practice this a lot and slowly increase the distance between the perch and your arm till it is a short jump like flight instead of a step.

You can also do the gently toss the bird onto or across the bed- I am pretty sure it was @Macawnutz who did this with one of her non fliers.
 

Greylady1966

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I appreciate all of the advice. She has no medical reason why she can't fly that our vet could find. I'm going to work on some of the suggestions that were posted. Thank you all.
 

Macawnutz

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I have does this many times. The main question is what does she do if/when she falls or gets scared? Does she try to fly or open her wings to catch herself at all? If you are holding her on your arm and lower her quickly toward the floor does she open her wings?
 

Greylady1966

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She opens her wings when I lower my arm.
 

Toy

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My previous macaw was abused & stuck in a small cage until I got her at age 2 years old. She didn't know how to fly. Wing exercises & short flights inside got her going. Over time, even clipped, she could fly 20 feet & land well. Inside she chose to climb & walk. In winter we'd fly her down the stairs, so she'd learn "down". I'd also fly her back to her cage.

I'm working on teaching my current macaw to fly. She was heavily clipped when I got her at age 4 months & had no balance. She'd be walking across the floor & fall on her face, her lack of balance was that bad. She'd grab my skin to hold on, as I carried her around the house, as she was afraid she'd fall. Due to her fear of falling I'm taking it slow & easy teaching her to fly.

I would suggest you start wing exercises first. Lack of wing muscles & they can't fly or land well. Hold Koko on your hand, grip the feet. Slowly move your arm up/down so she flaps her wings. You can hold her over the bed, sofa, or sit on the floor. Any place if she goes to fall will be a short soft landing. Do that a few times, several times a day. She needs to build up wing muscle before she can attempt flying. She will most likely breath heavy at first. The heavy breathing should only last a minute, then return to normal.

Once you get her landing on the bed or sofa you can try to get her to do short flights using a T-stand or a chair back. Walk her to the T-stand or chair & have her step down. Then have her step up & walk a few feet away & try to get her to fly to the t-stand or chair. As she gets good at a few feet, then increase the distance a little. Later, if you have a staircase you can have one person at the ttop holding her & toss her to fly down the stairs & land on your arm or a t-stand or chair back.
 

Macawnutz

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She opens her wings when I lower my arm.
Practice that everyday! Make it fun to swoop up and down while she opens her wings and flaps. Get her very comfortable doing it. Sing or YAY and treats. Depending on how she does the next step is tossing her to a bed. LOL
 

Greylady1966

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I raised and lowered her three times this morning. She leaned really low on my arm the first time with very little wing movement, on the last two she really stretched her wing, wider than she ever has I think. Maybe it was the motivation talk I gave her beforehand.
 

Macawnutz

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I raised and lowered her three times this morning. She leaned really low on my arm the first time with very little wing movement, on the last two she really stretched her wing, wider than she ever has I think. Maybe it was the motivation talk I gave her beforehand.
Perfect Carol! Make it a daily ( few times a day ) game. Fun noises/sounds/songs so she understands the routine of it. The goal is wings open and flapping a little on the way down. Not scary hence the fun songs and noises.

Has she ever done a flight at all? Even once when startled by something?
 

Greylady1966

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She fell once, her wings were out but not enough to help.
 

Xoetix

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Have you thought about documenting her progress? I bet it would be amazing to see.
 

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My TAG came to me in a similar situation. We've been working with her for a couple years now, and the progress is slow, but steady. She had severe muscle atrophy from lack of use, and wouldn't even open her wings when bathing or to flap (she would flap to break a fall, so she had the instincts there somewhere). She wouldn't flap when raising and lowering her, so it was really hard to get her to do ANYTHING with her wings. If she was presented with a gap of more than 2 or 3 inches - something she would have to jump/flap to cross, she wouldn't do it. As far as she was concerned, she was trapped. (Per the vet, there was no physical cause beyond muscle atrophy from misuse, so we started working on the problem).

What helped us was playing with the position of her food bowl. We put two plastic bins next to her cage so that she had to cross the 1st bin to reach the 2nd. We put her food on a playstand on the 2nd bin (we left her water bowl in her cage, so she had to move between them). She quickly got used to walking across the bins to eat, so we very slowly started pulling the bins apart. I'm talking less than an inch to start. Each time she got confident with the adjusted gap, we widened it a little bit. It took about three months to get her to actually jump/flap for the first time. In the early days, I would also manually extend her wings and gently massage the muscles (what little muscle there was).

It's been two years now, and she still has a long way to go, but she has improved SO much. She can fly about 5 feet in a straight line and land on a flat surface or on the vertical side of her cage, and we're currently working with a setup designed to force her to ascend, which requires more strength. I suspect the issue there is not just one of muscle, though, but of not being able to see the landing spot before taking off. She hasn't worked out turning yet, and descending still makes her panicky, as she treats it as breaking a fall rather than a controlled movement, but you can tell her wings are slowly getting stronger and her confidence has grown a lot. I have future plans to teach her to land on a perch or branch (as opposed to a wide surface) and am pondering how to set things up so she'll be forced to start making turns in flight.

She recently started (finally) to flap when lifted/lowered on your hand, and also will flap on command for treats, so we can finally get her to do proper wing exercises beyond her short flights. She uses her wings in a more natural manner, little stuff you don't notice until it changes, such as flapping to get that last boost when climbing, and just stretching her wings out for no reason than stretching feels good. She spreads her wings to bathe now. She has worked out that she should crouch before taking off, and she leans forward and tucks her feet up in flight now (originally, she would fly almost fully upright with her feet splayed out ahead of her in panicky preparation for landing).

She's 13 and old to be learning, but she could easily live another 50 years, so there will be a lot of time to reap the benefits of the lessons we're teaching now.
 
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Greylady1966

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She did really well today opening her wings when I lifted and lowered my arm. We did it 5 times today. I'm sure the first post I wrote sounded like I was ready to throw her in a large room and expect her to gracefully fly. Not at all. She needs a lot of work, we may never get to that point, but I feel the exercise will improve her overall health greatly.
 

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She did really well today opening her wings when I lifted and lowered my arm. We did it 5 times today. I'm sure the first post I wrote sounded like I was ready to throw her in a large room and expect her to gracefully fly. Not at all. She needs a lot of work, we may never get to that point, but I feel the exercise will improve her overall health greatly.
1. Mary Lynn would tell you to do those exercises with her daily solely for heart health. With her age it only does her good to flap her wings even if not flying.
and 2. Kailua never flies but if given enough space she IS a really good flyer! I've only seen it twice but she can fly really well for a bird that never does. Both times were seen at my work in that big open room. She has never tried at home.
 

Greylady1966

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I have always expected a lot out of myself and family. I push, sometimes too much to do more. I looked at Koko the other night while she was preening and said to her, " You could put some effort into moving more." :unsure1:
 
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