Learning to fly, prematurely?

[Linwood]

DYH Amazon, just shy of 3 yo, was kept in a store and clipped for the first 2.5 years, I have had her for 3 months now. She was severely clipped and not yet growing in.

However, she's getting stronger with better diet, and is experimenting with flying. When she first got here she would launch herself only if frightened, but that has gotten better with acclimation (and me being more careful approaching with anything new) and is pretty rare.

Now however she is starting to launch herself when she's bored and wants to be somewhere else. Or on someone else. Yesterday I heard a noise while sitting at my desk and looked up and there was a mess of feathers and claws heading at my forehead (she had been on a higher playstand 6' or so away).

This is infrequent and rare, but I think happening more often. Avoiding fear-based launches I could help manage, but these voluntary efforts are different.

Anyone have suggestions for discouraging flight (at least until she can fly)?

So far I just let her flutter to the ground and take the walk of shame to her cage, or if not in that room wait a bit and pick her up and put her back without any praise or treat. Trying to avoid all positive re-enforcement, including just interaction, though interaction is hard to avoid in other rooms as she can't get back.

I don't want to lock her up until the feathers grow in enough to actually fly. Though I have started locking her up more when I am not nearby just in case.

I keep any playstand well away from something dangerous (like stove or hot food), though as she gets stronger that radius increases even without flight feathers.

Other than avoiding positive re-enforcement, any suggestions how to discourage these voluntary "looks more interesting over" flights?

And she's just started molting, I found the first clipped flight feather out today -- how long do they take to grow in once molting starts? Googled articles are unclear if they include the wait to start molting or not.

Linwood

 

[Finchbreed]

As flight is natural to birds - I am with her - let me fly let me fly.
Back to your concerns for her safety - is it possible to put a succession of perches that she could do hop flights to?
Just till the wings are fully grown back in? As it sounds like she is trying to build up her strength for when the moult is finished.
Moulting takes 5-8weeks from 1st feather drop to last feather drop - bigger the bird, slower the moult. Head feathers tend to be the last so less critical.

 

[MommyBird]

I wouldn't discourage her.
she's got to learn by doing.
and actually it is probably safer while some feathers are clipped since she can't build up as much speed as when the new unclipped flight feathers come in.
And I don''t think the positive reinforcement reward comes as much from you as from her satisfaction in doing something she was born to do.

 

[Linwood]

I wouldn't discourage her.
she's got to learn by doing.
and actually it is probably safer while some feathers are clipped since she can't build up as much speed as when the new unclipped flight feathers come in.
And I don''t think the positive reinforcement reward comes as much from you as from her satisfaction in doing something she was born to do.

That last sentence rings very true.

 

[Linwood]

As flight is natural to birds - I am with her - let me fly let me fly.
Back to your concerns for her safety - is it possible to put a succession of perches that she could do hop flights to?
Just till the wings are fully grown back in? As it sounds like she is trying to build up her strength for when the moult is finished.
Moulting takes 5-8weeks from 1st feather drop to last feather drop - bigger the bird, slower the moult. Head feathers tend to be the last so less critical.

Molting: Thanks.

It's an interesting question. So far she's shown about zero aim in terms of a place to land (my forehead was an exception perhaps accidental). What I have now are fairly tall stands. I know birds like to be high, so they are about 6' high or so, gives her a bit of comfort I think when strangers (like my son) come to visit.

My longer plan was to get her to fly to me from the stands, and when she can land on an arm consistently to try flying back. I am a bit worried that with her complete klutz approach now trying to land on an unyielding stand with perches stuck out in various directions may dangerous, certainly moreso than the floor.

But I need to give it some thought. Thank you.

 

[TheBirds]

My BCC was like this, my only concern - really - was when she'd do it from any significant height as I was concerned she'd damage her keelbone or something on landing. Food is always a good motivator to stay put though; maybe you could give her something to forage in/for on a stand (or surface) that's lower to the ground (as a "just in case").

 

[Linwood]

Food is always a good motivator to stay put though; maybe you could give her something to forage in/for on a stand (or surface) that's lower to the ground (as a "just in case").

Yeah, food always works for me, but not her. At least not normal foods, she always has food on the playstand. ADHD seems a normal part of parrot personality.

Can you give a parrot Ritalin?

She's taken off a couple more times, once was purposeful, once she was playing upside down and I think just slipped -- in that case being up (about 4-5' then) was actually good, she got rightside up before the ground, somehow. Part cat. I just ignored her, she found her way back to the cage after a short foray under my desk.

 

[Macawnutz]

Sounds like a perfectly normal DYH learning to fly. I wouldn't discourage. This time is good to gain skills at half speed.

About a year before all the feathers molt, good diet dependant.

 

[SelvaVerde]

I'd say figure out where she wants to be and place her there. If she's out of her cage she will likely attempt to fly elsewhere regardless. I'd monitor her landings to make sure she isn't hitting her keel, and if you can check after a hard landing (due to being clipped) that she didn't split her skin there. Also, a possible concern is where she wants to be. Once flighted you want to limit trips to "nesting" locations as she may find one and become adamant about wanting to be there.

 

[Linwood]

I'd say figure out where she wants to be and place her there.

Yeah, I'm missing that "parrot to English" translation program. Sometimes it's obvious (e.g. pouring out a pot of popcorn), sometimes is a mystery.

Most places she lands on carpet.

And yes, I do worry once flighted how to restrict her landing to approved airports.

 

[Finchbreed]

Would cat stands with their flat carpeted squares be a good option for approved airports?

 

[Linwood]

Would cat stands with their flat carpeted squares be a good option for approved airports?

My main concern is teaching her what's acceptable. Honestly I'm just not that worried about her landings. Most are on carpet, and there's a certain amount of risk that just comes naturally with learning to fly (OK, I did it in an airplane, but my flight feathers never grew in normally).

So far she is never happy down low, the higher the better (like most any bird), so I doubt something like a cat stand (except some monster one) would be attractive. And all the parrot play areas I have now are ugly enough without cat stands in the house.

I'm thinking i mostly need to have sunflower seeds handy and once she can fly more level, reward landing in a good place and probably move her from a bad place to the floor and let her find her way elsewhere -- not exactly punishment but adjacent to it. And not leave her loose except supervised until I get a good feel for where she's going to decide to explore. I'm much more worried about her landing on a working stove than landing hard on the floor. Or fly into the grand piano and get tangled in the wires and break some feet. No danger of that now -- flying is all 'down' not 'across' really, but that danger will come.

I went through this 30+ years ago but oddly I do not remember the transition from clipped to full flight. Hopefully that doesn't mean it was so terrible I've blocked the experience.

 

[SelvaVerde]

"Yeah, I'm missing that "parrot to English" translation program."

Often flight is a means to an end. My birds will literally point themselves (wings out, jittery) to the place they want to go to if they can't get there themselves. And if on my finger will actually lean themselves in that direction. I've noticed they do a neat thing....they will chrip/whistle, touch their beak to my face/nose, etc. and then point themselves again where they want to go, and then they repeat this. It's like they're trying to guide me where to take them. Admittedly it was my wife who brought this to my attention. Cultivating the ability (maybe it takes keen observation and practice) to read any animals body language tends to reveal much more communication than we realise. Consider the most common question asked of parrot owners, "Do they talk?" It's hard to explain to the average inquisitive person that vocal bursts (inflections similar to out own) and body language are far more revealing of communication than repetition of human words (mimicry). This is true of any species. Talking or not, they communicate. Be cautioned that with freedom may come the claiming of nesting sites. We talk of what they're meat to do yet there's no greater drive (the others serve this purpose) than passing one's genes to the next generation. As a female, if the explores she may find a place she likes and if she begins to frequent it or lingers too long she may become adamant about wanting to go there. This can be frustrating for the owner as that's often all the bird wants (to be at their nesting location).

If she's landing on the carpet perhaps observe where she tries to go from there. Mabye she just want s different vantage point or change of spot. Good luck!

 

[Linwood]

For those interested some developments.

I've been encouraging her to fly a bit more to strengthen her wings, for example a long hall going back to her cage, she would take off (with a bit of encouragement) and fly down at about a 30 degree angle to the floor. Always down. She's molting a lot but not so much the flipped flight feathers, maybe 1 more has come in, not sure.

Then one day for no apparent reason she flew UP toward the ceiling, aimed at a string hanging down from the attic (missed), flew up higher and just barely cleared the door frame heading into her normal room, landing in the base of a play stand on the far side.

Up.

With almost fully clipped feathers. Clearly this has been more a function of desire and maybe developing strength.

Clearly the warning given somewhere around here about clipped birds flying more than you think is very relevant.

Since then for reasons unclear she keeps trying for the base of the play stand. I think she could make the top, she certainly could make the much software and less cluttered rug in front, but keeps heading for the base.

Until today she decided NOT to clear the door frame, she went up higher and tried to land on the very small molding at the top, maybe 3/4" max and rounded. Strangely succeeded, but mostly holding on by her beak and one foot before I rescued her.

Something tells me her learning to fly is going to be a bit of an adventure. If she survives.

I am getting her much better and landing on perches. She now rarely misses. I'm having no luck at getting her to fly to me, interestingly, no food seems tempting enough. Obviously need to work on that, but fortunately I have low ceilings so she won't end up unretrievable up high.

But... clipped birds can fly surprisingly well. And I hope that's a sign that 2.5 years without trying to fly didn't let her muscles completely atrophy.

 

[Linwood]

This is really weird....

Once she learned she could fly up or level not down, she is much less reluctant to fly, and her flying distance is really pretty good (for a house), her navigation is getting better but not great, but her landings....

I'm working on having her land on perches. If I move her from site to site, I almost always have her fly the last couple feet just to practice perch landings (not into the cage though, on top). That is going reasonably well, with a few misses and messy landings but getting fewer all the time.

What I have made absolutely zero progress on is getting her to fly to me (as opposed to from me). Enticement with food simply does not work. Only very rarely will she step only my arm to get to food I hold on the other side of it, much less far enough she has to fly even a flap or two.

I have a plastic tub of seeds and just the sound of opening it sends her into a frenzy, she will climb over anything in the way to get as close as she can then hang out begging, as she likes to stick her head into the container and pull out one.

So I've been trying that -- my arm out, seed container on the other side. She will sit and dance and spin and stretch, occasionally yell in frustration -- but won't fly. Really won't even take a big step, at most a small step to the arm.

Which bodes poorly for recalling her if she flies somewhere difficult to reach (fortunately I have low ceilings).

Anyone have any ideas how to get that very first, voluntary, fly-to-me to happen?

Note person A can launch her and she will fly to person B (though occasionally she will divert to an alternate). So she knows she CAN land on a person. She just seems totally uninterested in doing so.

And she's not person-adverse -- she is absolutely the mildest mannered amazon I've seen, absolute strangers can get her to step up (sometimes they need a bit of prodding), never bites (though acts like it, but never connects), will ride around on strangers' arms, change between people. Not sure she enjoys it, but she tolerates it just fine.

But flying off any spot voluntarily to a person - just can't get her motivated to do that the first time.

Idea's welcome.

 

[Mizzely]

I am not sure the advice to give because I have always had the opposite problem - they only want to fly to me Ripley being the exception, but he can't be bothered to fly anywhere

 

[Linwood]

I am not sure the advice to give because I have always had the opposite problem - they only want to fly to me

Yeah, I was rather hoping for that (gives me comfort if she ever got out). We did some practice tonight, flying only about 10 feet but to a perch oriented in a somewhat difficult direction. Better landing each time (and a reward each time of course).

But with favorite treats couldn't entice her even to take a big step across my hand to treats, much less fly.

I am guessing it will come. And at the least opportune time of course - I'll be carrying a tray of food or something, with guests watching. Just hope it's not a landing in a pot of boiling water!

 

[Linwood]

The flight training continues. She now takes off anytime bored or annoyed and flies --- somewhere. Trying to get to a playstand or cage, but sometimes she ends up in a mess. She also can fly far enough to reach anything in the house (though a doorway that requires a turn after is a mystery).

But one thing that's interesting is she also now is braver. She used to rarely hang upside down, or in any precarious positions, she tested each step first. Very careful. Now the below is more typical. She just hung there a while, enjoying the view. She often hangs upside down over the cage opening, just hanging. Like "why worry, I can fly".

Last showed I noticed she has a LOT of flight feathers clipped -- Apparently there are two layers, and only the bottom have been replaced, generally. So she must work pretty hard to stay airborn compared to what's coming.

 

[Clueless]

She's gorgeous!

Secret has started going off her playstand on rare occasions. We have a LOW stand for her though because I was scared she'd split her keel open or her beak. Recently she went off the playstand and landed on a glass coffee table. Hubby moved his feet as she slid across and off the table.

So.... they can develop muscles even when older.

 

[Linwood]

Secret has started going off her playstand on rare occasions.

Minutes after my photo for the first time ever she got tired of being on this playstand and flew back to her cage.

Still waiting for her to fly to me at some point. So far I'm apparently a fly-from zone, not a fly-to zone.

I've given up on keeping her safe (well, other than things like windows, cooking). When she decides to fly, sometimes she just flies up to the top of a wall and.... falls. Tough bones I guess, in birds.