KITTY - 12/4/2021 UPDATE

[tka]

I'm sorry to hear that Kitty is declining. You've done wonders to keep her happy and alive this long. I strongly suspect that it's all down to you that she's had another year of life to enjoy.

I'm sorry that you're going through all this again so soon after losing Jasper. Something has brought these three magnificent but fragile birds into your life, and I'm humbled to read of the care, love and tenacity you show them.

 

[Tiel Feathers]

There is no doubt that your love and care has kept her going this last year, but I’m so sorry to hear that now she seems to be taking a turn. It’s wonderful that you have such a great vet to help you through this, and I hope somehow that Kitty can make it another year with you.

 

[MR. Mango]

sending lots of love and prayers Kitty's way! I'm sure that she's glad to be with you and feel so loved and safe. If you dont mind me asking do you know how kitty got PDD?

 

[Sparkles!]

I have gone as high as 80mg/kg with Neurontin on terminal birds.

Have you or Driggers tried Kitty on diazepam yet? I’ve had really good luck with it in birds. C. Mans (I believe he might still be prof. of wildlife studies at Madison WI veterinary college, and he’s good at answering emails from professionals) conducted a workshop and from his own research gave a review on the appetite enhancing quantities of Valium on bald eagles and budgies. I’ve personally administered it (with great results) for pain/anxiety coupled with decreased intake for several macaws. We’re Kitty with me, I would definitely try it.

The only other mention I can think of is her hydration level- has she gotten a bit dehydrated? How are her urates? Thinking of both of you, sending a hug.

 

[Hankmacaw]

@MR. Mango - Birds as a general rule don't "get" PDD. The ABV virus is with them from birth and at some point the abv attacks the nerve endings and the bird then has PDD. PDD is a disease of the nerve endings. They don't know why some birds live their entire life with ABV and never convert and why others do. Some of the things suspected (really pretty sure) to convert the presence of the ABV virus into PDD are; sexual hormonal activity, stress, poor condition (malnutrition etc.). Between 30 - 40% of all birds (companion and wild) have the ABV virus. It is thought, at the present, that almost all birds with the ABV virus contracted it while they were still in the egg.

There are a few, very few, other conditions that cause ganglioneuritis (PDD).

Here is a webinar that you can watch about Avian Ganglioneuritis given by Dr. Orosz, a wonderful and easy to watch vet.

Medical Management of Psittacines with Bornavirus Ganglioneuritis (PDD) - LafeberVet

View the veterinary webinar “Understanding and Managing Avian Patients with Bornavirus Ganglioneuritis (PDD)” by Dr. Susan Orosz, with guest Robert Dahlhausen.

lafeber.com

 

[MR. Mango]

Thankyou, I thought that birds could contract it from affected birds but i \probably confused that with PBFD

 

[Hankmacaw]

I haven't tried Diazepam. She has an appetite, but can't eat regular foods because she cannot digest them and it is quite painful for her. I'll ask Dr. Driggers about it.

She accumulates too much fluid, because she has serious atherosclerosis and her circulation is not what it should be.

Her urates are pure white, a little loose and there are a lot. She is on a very high protein diet.

 

[Hankmacaw]

@MR. Mango
There is some evidence that some birds can acquire the ABV virus from other birds, not easily but it occasionally happens.

 

[Hankmacaw]

@Sparkles! - She is now on 5mg/kg Gabapentin and 30mg/kg of Celebrex. Celebrex (an NSAID) is the only medication found so far that has any effect on Avian Ganglioneuritis and 30mg/kg is outside the recommended dosage.

Kitty is basically on hospice care now.

 

[Sparkles!]

@Sparkles! - She is now on 5mg/kg Gabapentin and 30mg/kg of Celebrex. Celebrex (an NSAID) is the only medication found so far that has any effect on Avian Ganglioneuritis and 30mg/kg is outside the recommended dosage.

Kitty is basically on hospice care now.

Are you liking the Celebrex? I’ve had experience with both celecoxib (celebrex) and robenacoxib (Onsior) for sanctuary macaws and I favored the Onsior a bit more due to perceived comfort attained from it over the celebrex. Downside is cost can be much higher, though. I thought positive they’re both on plan for PDD? They’re similar meds but not the same, and if you wish to trial the Onsior you’ll know very quickly (within 24h, definitely by 48) if her pain response improves. Sometimes all it takes is a tweak of that molecular structure of a med and further success is gained.
If Driggers isn’t keen on trying the Valium, or you think anxiety/appetite isn’t a chief complaint, I would ask for a trial of Metaclopramide if you haven’t tried that already. I think nausea in these guys can be very likely and in terminal birds every little comfort we can give is worth it.

Her CNS lesions may be worsening and could be what’s causing her to cry out. Its heartbreaking to hear them vocalize their pain and fear. I speak from experience that if you know for a fact that you’re doing everything pharmaceutically you can to ease the GI tract discomfort, you cry a little less.

If there’s anything I can do to help you in this awful situation, don’t hesitate. Terminal situations suck, and there’s no way to sugarcoat it. But if you need an ear, or a cheer, or even someone to cuss with you about just how crappy sad everything is when they’re about to gain their forever wings…just let me know.

 

[Hankmacaw]

I live 1 1/2 hour from my Dr. and the last time I took her in Dr. Driggers said it would be best not to bring her in again unless it's an emergency. She gets so horribly upset at any change or new people or new experiences that we felt it was affecting her PDD detrimentally. Dr. and I can get a lot done by phone and I give him detailed updates and express my concerns to him weekly by email.

I do believe that her CNS is worsening a bit.

He gave her Onsior the first time he had her, but the injection was so traumatic for her he hasn't done it since.

She has been on Metoclopramide since day one. She was regurgitating then, then stopped for a couple of weeks after a couple of months treatment and is now back to regurgitating, but not as badly.

She had a suprelorin implant to reduce her hormonal activity. It seems that hormonal activity is a bad as anything on PDD.

In July she showed high indication (+1900 ui) of pancreatitis, but luckily she had been getting Prozyme with every meal from day one. She also gets probiotics recommended by Dr. Dalhausen.

Her other meds. are;
Sildenafil - blood pressure and atherosclerosis
Gabapentin - relaxation and pain
She is also nebulized occasionally when her PHS acts up. It is a concoction that Dr. Driggers has had success with and includes an antibiotic.
Milk thistle - liver support
Garlic extract - atherosclerosis
Dandelion extract - liver/kidney support

That's it for now, but I can see her Gabapentin being increased.

 

[Sparkles!]

I hope Santa can put a Frito in her stocking, maybe a little bit early if needed.

 

[sunnysmom]

I am so sorry that she's losing weight, etc. I keep you both in my prayers every night. Maybe you could do a video consultation with your vet instead of taking her in? That way he could see how she is acting. It's such an awful feeling not being able to just make them better. Not the same thing, but that's how I felt when Sunny had his stroke and the vet said there wasn't really anything to do. I've said this before, but Kitty was so lucky to find you. I am just sorry that it's been stressful for you.