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Joya is flying with angels now

Spearmint

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
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1,225
Location
Australia, Sydney
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Elk [He/They]
I am so so sorry for your loss.
 

MacawCaw

Meeting neighbors
Joined
8/10/23
Messages
21
Hi MacawCaw. I'm unsure if you're still watching for replies here but I wanted to pass my condolences to you for your tragic loss of Joya.

I easily understand your heartache and emotions because I've been enduring a very similar situation. I lost my Hy, Zaffer, on February 20 of this year. He'd developed oral cancer and I opted to have him euthanized on that day. He was with me for just shy of 18 years and my entire world revolved around him. He was the sweetest bird I've ever known and we had an unbelievable loving bond.

The medical situation with Zaf was somewhat different from yours with Joya (albeit there were similarities). I'm still grieving heavily and I experience many "I wish I had's...", "I should have's...", "and "if I could only go back in time and's..." on a daily basis. I also experienced an ongoing rudeness/uncaring issue from clinical staff members on a somewhat ongoing basis.

I just wanted you to know that you're not alone in your devastation and feelings of deep regret. I'm so very sorry for what happened to beautiful Joya, as I am for what happened to my incredibly sweet Zaffer. I'm heartbroken for everyone who has lost a dear companion :sad1:
I am so sorry to hear abut Zaffer, you have my deepest condolences and the fact you also had to experience rudeness from the staff during such a difficult and horrible experience breaks my heart. The clinic where Joya was hurt and died, they deleted his patient info from the client webpage that day and never spoke a word to me since. It leaves a bitter and awful taste in my mouth.... and to know someone else experienced such rude and uncaring-ness from people who should know better on how to treat others

And I truly appreciate your reply, I know I don't post much on here, it is still difficult seeing all the bird posts and remembering Joya and posting when that feeling of grief at him being gone comes up. (Few months already and my heart still breaks when I see his old videos or photos, especially recent videos of him just weeks before he passed. But time is the best medicine, even if the pain is always there.). I am so sorry for your loss of Zaffer, such a beautiful bird who was so dearly loved by you and cared for by you! A hyacinth is truly a magical bird and you loved yours so very much! I can't describe how you must be feeling, but I can understand that hole they leave after being a constant part of your life for so long, just know Zaffer loved you and knew how much you loved him. And I truly appreciate your kind words and know you did the best for Zaffer and gave him the best most loving life!
 

MacawCaw

Meeting neighbors
Joined
8/10/23
Messages
21
366322351_6930860156925784_7543033809217838296_n.jpg fhndhfhfx.jpg As you can, Rio always had to be in the middle of the cuddle session, always needs to be doted on by his brother (he is still adjusting after his brother's loss....), but Joya was such a sweet boy. Always wanted to preen his brother or my hand. An absolute angel, if he was grumpy, he'd smack you with his beak and then go back to preening
 

Icey

Biking along the boulevard
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Wales, United Kingdom
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Ann
I am so sorry to hear of your loss of Joya. Your post was hard to read because of the heartache, frustration, what ifs, and hesitation you felt within yourself prior to each vet visit.
My heart was totally breaking for you and I was teary just trying to read it all.
I am so sorry for your loss of Joya. :sorrow: :sadhug2:
 

plax

Sitting on the front steps
Joined
2/27/23
Messages
19
I am so sorry to hear abut Zaffer, you have my deepest condolences and the fact you also had to experience rudeness from the staff during such a difficult and horrible experience breaks my heart. The clinic where Joya was hurt and died, they deleted his patient info from the client webpage that day and never spoke a word to me since. It leaves a bitter and awful taste in my mouth.... and to know someone else experienced such rude and uncaring-ness from people who should know better on how to treat others

And I truly appreciate your reply, I know I don't post much on here, it is still difficult seeing all the bird posts and remembering Joya and posting when that feeling of grief at him being gone comes up. (Few months already and my heart still breaks when I see his old videos or photos, especially recent videos of him just weeks before he passed. But time is the best medicine, even if the pain is always there.). I am so sorry for your loss of Zaffer, such a beautiful bird who was so dearly loved by you and cared for by you! A hyacinth is truly a magical bird and you loved yours so very much! I can't describe how you must be feeling, but I can understand that hole they leave after being a constant part of your life for so long, just know Zaffer loved you and knew how much you loved him. And I truly appreciate your kind words and know you did the best for Zaffer and gave him the best most loving life!
Hello again, MacawCaw. I too very much appreciate your response to my reply. Thank you for your condolences, kind words and thoughts about Zaffer. It means a lot to me. It's egregious that your clinic actually deleted Joya's patient info from your client portal (or removed your access to it). You may want to consider requesting a complete hard copy of his file. I believe you have the right to it legally. But I understand that doing so may arouse feelings you prefer to avoid for now, so it's your decision.

While I think about Zaffer constantly, I too have been largely avoiding viewing my videos and photos of him. It just hurts so much to see and hear him... and I find that nearly everything reminds me of him. I'm even unable to listen to/enjoy music anymore because so many songs trigger my memories of him. That's because he was usually with me for most of each day so we heard lots of music together over the years - and Zaf was a bird who absolutely LOVED music! He would do his chicken-flap dance to his favorite songs. Thinking of that literally makes me burst into tears. I hear his happy sounds in my mind continually ... I miss him so very much :'(

I have another macaw (a male GW named Salsa who really loved Zaf) that learned and perfectly mimics Zaf's call. When Salsa does it, and especially when I hear him doing it at a distance (like from another room or from outside the house), it momentarily feels like Zaf is still with me only steps away. It's so eerily reminiscent of his presence. I mention this because I believe you said one one of your birds mimics Joya's call.

I know they say time heals, or at least dampens pain from such horrific loss. But, for me, imagining a reduction in the agony I'm feeling over my loss of Zaf seems it would somehow substitute with a measure of guilt from not feeling quite as deeply about him (i.e., not continuing to experience the height of my grief-generated thoughts and emotions when I think of him). So while enduring my current extent of pain is a horrible thing, if that pain begins to fade it will be replaced by yet another horrible thing. Hence, I'm not sure 'time' is my solution.

I have experienced the loss of other loved ones in life. While each loss has been devastating for me, losing Zaffer has somehow been my most negatively impactful loss. It's been the most difficult and painful thing I've ever experienced. So sadly, I'm not expecting much relief in the years ahead.
 

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Cali

Sprinting down the street
Joined
10/25/23
Messages
342
Real Name
Janet
So very very sorry for your loss. I have had bad experiences with the vet, and it's really sad when they don't seem to care. We are at their mercy and I am so sorry they let you down in every respect.

I hope you are able to find someone new and trustworthy for your birds. It's terrible to feel so helpless.

My thoughts go out to you during this difficult time. Joya is in birdie heaven now.
 

plax

Sitting on the front steps
Joined
2/27/23
Messages
19
View attachment 437484 View attachment 437483 As you can, Rio always had to be in the middle of the cuddle session, always needs to be doted on by his brother (he is still adjusting after his brother's loss....), but Joya was such a sweet boy. Always wanted to preen his brother or my hand. An absolute angel, if he was grumpy, he'd smack you with his beak and then go back to preening
Your two were indeed an adorable pair and your loss of Joya is tragic beyond words! Joya smacking you with his beak when he became grumpy reminds me of what Zaffer would do while on my shoulder as I'd move around the house. When I didn't go the direction he wanted me to take him, he'd reach over and peck me squarely at the crown of my head - and each time, he hit it on target dead center! It was his way of telling me "Hey, I don't want you to go that way... I want you to take me over there instead!" He'd guide me around like that. It was very cute :hy:

zaffy.jpg
He was continually interacting with me and tuned in to whatever I was doing.

zaf_snooze.png
And this is how he insisted on napping (on my chest!)
 

Pixiebeak

Biking along the boulevard
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USA
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Laura
I'm so very sorry for your loss. It is beyond unfair when things like this happen. Such a glorious parrot , such a wonderful bond , so much love. The depth of pain matches the depth of love , and it does forever change us .

I struggle to offer support. Joya story is now part of our story now . I'm touched by his life .

I'm not in the best place to offer wisdom, or even better words .

My mom has a heart Cath, when she came back to the room I knew something was wrong had gone wrong...

I feel your pain , I hurt reading your story, you aren't alone.

Just wanted to share my sympathy. My added prayers for peace and healing
 

MacawCaw

Meeting neighbors
Joined
8/10/23
Messages
21
Your two were indeed an adorable pair and your loss of Joya is tragic beyond words! Joya smacking you with his beak when he became grumpy reminds me of what Zaffer would do while on my shoulder as I'd move around the house. When I didn't go the direction he wanted me to take him, he'd reach over and peck me squarely at the crown of my head - and each time, he hit it on target dead center! It was his way of telling me "Hey, I don't want you to go that way... I want you to take me over there instead!" He'd guide me around like that. It was very cute :hy:

View attachment 437679
He was continually interacting with me and tuned in to whatever I was doing.

View attachment 437682
And this is how he insisted on napping (on my chest!)
I requested his blood samples prior but I can’t even bring myself to open them. But I think in the future when these feelings aren’t overwhelming, I will.

I completely understand that, I find myself avoiding making sounds I know Joya loved to make, like this “Whoop!” noise (his brother and him would do it constantly together, and even if Rio loves to make the sounds, I find myself losing the excitement as I do it back and forth because there is a third voice missing). It is difficult and I know in time, you may be able to remember the music and dances fondly as you shared such a long time with him. But I know that is not the time right now and may be a long way off, it is such a difficult process and I am so sorry you are going through this. :sadhug2: And my female macaw would make Joya’s noises and calls, which was the hardest when his death was still recent. Both Rio and I would perk up and Rio would try to climb off my arm to search for his brother. The sounds are hard to hear and think he is right there, only to turn around and not see him. I have a female umbrella cockatoo who mimics one of my female lesser Sulphur cockatoos who passed away a few years ago (her sister she grew up with). Before it was just as difficult, but now it still makes me sad yet it is nice to hear her call. I cried for an entire year losing her and I can’t turn time back, but the small things of her have started to bring comfort instead of intense sadness and guilt. I hope the calls one day bring comfort to you even though they might be very difficult still.


That’s how I feel when I try to work through the pain of losing Joya, the guilt at losing him and the blame at failing him when he trusted me the most to pick the right people to help him. But, I loved Joya with all my heart and he died in my arms, not alone, and I gave him the best I could. I know he would not want me to feel this way forever, even if I will for a long time. Zaf would feel the same way, to see the on who raised him and loved him and care for him throughout his life suffering and blaming themselves. The best is to remember all the love you gave him and all the love he had for you in return. Losing someone as precious as Zaf will take a long time to work through, especially losing one when you know they are such long living birds. Both of our boys had a short time on Earth, but they were given the best in their life that we could offer and showered in love. And your Zaf is such a beautiful boy, he looks so well loved and cared for and such a happy soul!



What a beautiful hilarious little man, to be so gentle with his beak and so demanding, that is so precious beyond words! It really is so magical to have such a bond with these birds when you know they could yank a good amount of flesh out but are so gentle and thoughtful (and so demanding like little brats that want all the love and attention), he is such a beautiful boy and he loved you very much!!

What I will miss is when my two boys would get territorial and chase me around their flight cage because they didn't want to clean, then the next moment they are wondering why I wasn't cuddling with them and holding them as if they weren't trying to bite my toes off :hilarious: I wouldn't have traded those cleaning times for the world, because they weren't being aggressive just two brothers being brats. Now I clean Rio's flight cage and he just watches or occasionally sits on my shoulder and watches. I'd give anything to have him chase the broom or my feet again.
 

MacawCaw

Meeting neighbors
Joined
8/10/23
Messages
21
I'm so very sorry for your loss. It is beyond unfair when things like this happen. Such a glorious parrot , such a wonderful bond , so much love. The depth of pain matches the depth of love , and it does forever change us .

I struggle to offer support. Joya story is now part of our story now . I'm touched by his life .

I'm not in the best place to offer wisdom, or even better words .

My mom has a heart Cath, when she came back to the room I knew something was wrong had gone wrong...

I feel your pain , I hurt reading your story, you aren't alone.

Just wanted to share my sympathy. My added prayers for peace and healing
thank you so much for the kind words, I truly appreciate them, and I am so sorry for what you are going through :sadhug2:
 

plax

Sitting on the front steps
Joined
2/27/23
Messages
19
Thank you for your heartfelt thoughts about Zaffer and my battle to cope with his absence. It's been a horribly difficult journey.

I requested his blood samples prior but I can’t even bring myself to open them. But I think in the future when these feelings aren’t overwhelming, I will.
I can fully relate to that. Our enormous losses make such things incredibly hard... seemingly even impossible at times. We are effectively paralyzed by the pain we feel.

I completely understand that, I find myself avoiding making sounds I know Joya loved to make, like this “Whoop!” noise (his brother and him would do it constantly together, and even if Rio loves to make the sounds, I find myself losing the excitement as I do it back and forth because there is a third voice missing).
I'm so sorry. I feel the same way.

It is difficult and I know in time, you may be able to remember the music and dances fondly as you shared such a long time with him. But I know that is not the time right now and may be a long way off, it is such a difficult process and I am so sorry you are going through this. :sadhug2:
It's hard to imagine right now but I hope you're right. Thanks for your thoughts... you certainly do understand. Our situations are quite similar.

And my female macaw would make Joya’s noises and calls, which was the hardest when his death was still recent. Both Rio and I would perk up and Rio would try to climb off my arm to search for his brother. The sounds are hard to hear and think he is right there, only to turn around and not see him.
That's exactly how it feels when Salsa mimics Zaf's calls. It's quite haunting. But I think the worst for me is that I continually hear Zaf's happy sounds in my mind. His vocals of playtime pleasure are forever playing in my head. You may think it should make me feel better, but instead it really hurts (because the truth is he's gone and it's only a memory).

I have a female umbrella cockatoo who mimics one of my female lesser Sulphur cockatoos who passed away a few years ago (her sister she grew up with). Before it was just as difficult, but now it still makes me sad yet it is nice to hear her call. I cried for an entire year losing her and I can’t turn time back, but the small things of her have started to bring comfort instead of intense sadness and guilt. I hope the calls one day bring comfort to you even though they might be very difficult still.
Although right now I can't imagine my memories of Zaf bringing comfort, I too hope it happens at some point. Thanks for the encouragement. By the way, I lost another cherished feathered family member in 2019 (a military macaw named Maynard). He suffered a stroke in 2011 and began experiencing severe seizures years later. It was a very horrific and painful end for him. I still feel raw pain over what he went through and from his passing.

That’s how I feel when I try to work through the pain of losing Joya, the guilt at losing him and the blame at failing him when he trusted me the most to pick the right people to help him.
I fully understand and can easily relate because I feel exactly the same about my failures with Zaf. Like you, I'm haunted by the fact that he trusted me to protect his life... he counted on me to find and engage the best path forward to make him better. But I failed him! As it turned out, he couldn't count on me after all. Instead, I took him to die. Realizing that fact, how can I ever feel peace of mind? I think I never will.

But, I loved Joya with all my heart and he died in my arms, not alone, and I gave him the best I could. I know he would not want me to feel this way forever, even if I will for a long time. Zaf would feel the same way, to see the on who raised him and loved him and care for him throughout his life suffering and blaming themselves. The best is to remember all the love you gave him and all the love he had for you in return. Losing someone as precious as Zaf will take a long time to work through, especially losing one when you know they are such long living birds. Both of our boys had a short time on Earth, but they were given the best in their life that we could offer and showered in love. And your Zaf is such a beautiful boy, he looks so well loved and cared for and such a happy soul!
There's so much truth in what you've said and I'm truly touched by it. However, the following details cause lingering agony for me: Immediately prior to Zaf's lethal injection, the vet had me administer a preliminary sedative cocktail to him (nasally) because it was easier for me to do so since he trusted me. The mixture (ketamine and midazolam) was so voluminous that its sheer volume may well have been what ended his life... or at least if not for the following lethal injection by the vet, the huge amount of sedative likely could have killed him on its own. As such, I feel he died at my hands. While I was discharging the contents of the syringe to his nares, he looked up at me as if to say, "why are you doing this to me?" I'll never be able to purge that look on his face from my mind. It's the last interaction I ever had with him

What a beautiful hilarious little man, to be so gentle with his beak and so demanding, that is so precious beyond words! It really is so magical to have such a bond with these birds when you know they could yank a good amount of flesh out but are so gentle and thoughtful (and so demanding like little brats that want all the love and attention), he is such a beautiful boy and he loved you very much!!
Agreed! There's no question that he loved me very much... and I, him! He used to love preening my arm, face, and chest nonstop. I long for that amazing feeling of his pure love and closeness that I'll never experience again. But I will tell you , he was murder on my tee shirts. I think I have about 50 or 60 of them that he mutilated. Each is riddled with humongous gaping holes from his beak work... but I'll keep them forever! They are a keepsake treasure to me!

What I will miss is when my two boys would get territorial and chase me around their flight cage because they didn't want to clean, then the next moment they are wondering why I wasn't cuddling with them and holding them as if they weren't trying to bite my toes off :hilarious: I wouldn't have traded those cleaning times for the world, because they weren't being aggressive just two brothers being brats. Now I clean Rio's flight cage and he just watches or occasionally sits on my shoulder and watches. I'd give anything to have him chase the broom or my feet again.
That's so adorable. And I know exactly what you mean because Zaf was a broom chaser too. He used to chase my red broom around the floor as I was trying to sweep. And he always made his happy sounds while he did it. I miss him in the worst way!
 

AW2023

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/12/23
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82
Location
East Coast US
Real Name
Annie
I'm so, so sorry for your loss.
Your feelings are completely valid, and I am so sorry this happened to you and Joya.
 

flocknroll

Meeting neighbors
Joined
10/12/23
Messages
48
I am so, so incredibly sorry. I know there’s nothing to say that can make you feel any better but my thoughts are with you. Allow yourself to feel whatever you need to feel and I hope that you have support around you x
 

MacawCaw

Meeting neighbors
Joined
8/10/23
Messages
21
Thank you for your heartfelt thoughts about Zaffer and my battle to cope with his absence. It's been a horribly difficult journey.

I can fully relate to that. Our enormous losses make such things incredibly hard... seemingly even impossible at times. We are effectively paralyzed by the pain we feel.

I'm so sorry. I feel the same way.

It's hard to imagine right now but I hope you're right. Thanks for your thoughts... you certainly do understand. Our situations are quite similar.

That's exactly how it feels when Salsa mimics Zaf's calls. It's quite haunting. But I think the worst for me is that I continually hear Zaf's happy sounds in my mind. His vocals of playtime pleasure are forever playing in my head. You may think it should make me feel better, but instead it really hurts (because the truth is he's gone and it's only a memory).

Although right now I can't imagine my memories of Zaf bringing comfort, I too hope it happens at some point. Thanks for the encouragement. By the way, I lost another cherished feathered family member in 2019 (a military macaw named Maynard). He suffered a stroke in 2011 and began experiencing severe seizures years later. It was a very horrific and painful end for him. I still feel raw pain over what he went through and from his passing.

I fully understand and can easily relate because I feel exactly the same about my failures with Zaf. Like you, I'm haunted by the fact that he trusted me to protect his life... he counted on me to find and engage the best path forward to make him better. But I failed him! As it turned out, he couldn't count on me after all. Instead, I took him to die. Realizing that fact, how can I ever feel peace of mind? I think I never will.

There's so much truth in what you've said and I'm truly touched by it. However, the following details cause lingering agony for me: Immediately prior to Zaf's lethal injection, the vet had me administer a preliminary sedative cocktail to him (nasally) because it was easier for me to do so since he trusted me. The mixture (ketamine and midazolam) was so voluminous that its sheer volume may well have been what ended his life... or at least if not for the following lethal injection by the vet, the huge amount of sedative likely could have killed him on its own. As such, I feel he died at my hands. While I was discharging the contents of the syringe to his nares, he looked up at me as if to say, "why are you doing this to me?" I'll never be able to purge that look on his face from my mind. It's the last interaction I ever had with him

Agreed! There's no question that he loved me very much... and I, him! He used to love preening my arm, face, and chest nonstop. I long for that amazing feeling of his pure love and closeness that I'll never experience again. But I will tell you , he was murder on my tee shirts. I think I have about 50 or 60 of them that he mutilated. Each is riddled with humongous gaping holes from his beak work... but I'll keep them forever! They are a keepsake treasure to me!

That's so adorable. And I know exactly what you mean because Zaf was a broom chaser too. He used to chase my red broom around the floor as I was trying to sweep. And he always made his happy sounds while he did it. I miss him in the worst way!
It is such a horrible situation and know you and Zaf will always be in my thoughts and prayers.

I completely understand how those happy sounds hurt, thinking of Joya’s sounds and not seeing him in his flight cage can bring me to tears. Sometimes it is hard when Rio comes down for a hug and he just sits there quietly, as though he needs it more than me. It hurts to see a video of Joya singing with me just days before his visit and it haunts me. But in time…. In a lot of time, it will get better. Not healed but… manageable.



I am so sorry for the loss of Maynard, my heart breaks at the thought that you lost both of these precious boys. There is no comfort I can bring, but I am so very sorry for your loss of Maynard and Zaf.

There was very little you could do when he reached that point in his life, you chose the best option that you thought would be the best for him. He would understand, and I am so sorry the vet made you do that to your bird prior… they should not have allowed you to do that and I have no idea why they would even suggest you be any hands on but to hold your bird in the end. I am so sorry, that breaks my heart for you and fills me with anger at the vet having you do that when they are taught not to do that.



Oh my gosh do I understand the damage their beaks can do to clothes! (And I am so happy you will keep them forever, I keep all those sweatshirts they grabbed onto and just tore a new one into them), they truly are treasures and will forever be a reminder of Zaf and his love of you (and your shirts)!

How precious! Joya went for the broom, but they aimed for the toes which was the worst in the summer because even though I know they weren’t aiming to truly bite my feet, I was not going to risk a pinky toe to some worked up bratty boys that were hell bent on my feet and post-cuddles. Zaf sounds like a ball of personality and an absolute ray of sunshine of a bird, a truly beautiful Hycainth! A well loved and spoiled precious man!
 

plax

Sitting on the front steps
Joined
2/27/23
Messages
19
It is such a horrible situation and know you and Zaf will always be in my thoughts and prayers.

I completely understand how those happy sounds hurt, thinking of Joya’s sounds and not seeing him in his flight cage can bring me to tears. Sometimes it is hard when Rio comes down for a hug and he just sits there quietly, as though he needs it more than me. It hurts to see a video of Joya singing with me just days before his visit and it haunts me. But in time…. In a lot of time, it will get better. Not healed but… manageable.



I am so sorry for the loss of Maynard, my heart breaks at the thought that you lost both of these precious boys. There is no comfort I can bring, but I am so very sorry for your loss of Maynard and Zaf.

There was very little you could do when he reached that point in his life, you chose the best option that you thought would be the best for him. He would understand, and I am so sorry the vet made you do that to your bird prior… they should not have allowed you to do that and I have no idea why they would even suggest you be any hands on but to hold your bird in the end. I am so sorry, that breaks my heart for you and fills me with anger at the vet having you do that when they are taught not to do that.



Oh my gosh do I understand the damage their beaks can do to clothes! (And I am so happy you will keep them forever, I keep all those sweatshirts they grabbed onto and just tore a new one into them), they truly are treasures and will forever be a reminder of Zaf and his love of you (and your shirts)!

How precious! Joya went for the broom, but they aimed for the toes which was the worst in the summer because even though I know they weren’t aiming to truly bite my feet, I was not going to risk a pinky toe to some worked up bratty boys that were hell bent on my feet and post-cuddles. Zaf sounds like a ball of personality and an absolute ray of sunshine of a bird, a truly beautiful Hycainth! A well loved and spoiled precious man!
Likewise, I will never forget the horror of Joya's heart-wrenching story and the immeasurable loss it has imposed upon you and Rio :sad1:

Although our stories differ somewhat in detail and circumstance, they are quite alike in some important ways. We both lost our treasured blue companions (this year) under tragic circumstances. We are each feeling a measure of tremendous guilt over our decisions. And, of course, we have both experienced serious issues with the attitudes and behaviors of veterinary staff members while struggling to save our boys. In those regards, neither of us is alone.

I feel total empathy for sweet Joya and what you went through trying to help him and what you've been through since his passing. Thinking about it hurts so much! Both Joya and Zaffer very much deserved to live on with their loved ones. This world can be extremely cruel :sad8:

Thanks so much for your replies.
 

MacawCaw

Meeting neighbors
Joined
8/10/23
Messages
21
Likewise, I will never forget the horror of Joya's heart-wrenching story and the immeasurable loss it has imposed upon you and Rio :sad1:

Although our stories differ somewhat in detail and circumstance, they are quite alike in some important ways. We both lost our treasured blue companions (this year) under tragic circumstances. We are each feeling a measure of tremendous guilt over our decisions. And, of course, we have both experienced serious issues with the attitudes and behaviors of veterinary staff members while struggling to save our boys. In those regards, neither of us is alone.

I feel total empathy for sweet Joya and what you went through trying to help him and what you've been through since his passing. Thinking about it hurts so much! Both Joya and Zaffer very much deserved to live on with their loved ones. This world can be extremely cruel :sad8:

Thanks so much for your replies.
Thank you so much as well and you are so very right (even though I wish neither of us were going through this and I am so sorry that you experienced the tragedy and horrific experience from the veterinarian staff members too). Our boys truly did deserve to live with us and continue to experience our love and it pains me to know you are experiencing a similar situation. Zaf will always be in my thoughts and prayers, a beautiful boy flying above us with Joya and everyone, and the best we can continue to do is give as much love to their siblings and remember them (no matter how painful it is), and I truly appreciate all of your kind words in this and your replies too and I wish you the very best!
 
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