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Is it okay to scoop up a budgie?

Saya

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My budgie has issues leaving his cage and i was wondering, because grabbing is not acceptable, if scooping him up would work. Like coming underneath him and cupping my hands and just scooping him up. I cannot get him off his cage and I was hoping not to have to use a perch.
 

LunaLovebird

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Any hand might be seen as an invasion of his space. It's probably just better to let him come out on his own, or to coax him out with treats. Is there any reason you object to using a perch when you need him out?
 

JLcribber

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Saya

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Any hand might be seen as an invasion of his space. It's probably just better to let him come out on his own, or to coax him out with treats. Is there any reason you object to using a perch when you need him out?
I have taken him off the cage before with the perch but for some reason i feel like he resents me for it? I don't know he is completely tame once away from the cage so i was pretty sure my hands were the problem. He comes out of the cage willingly but doesn't get off the top of it... I'm not entirely sure whats going on with him
 

Saya

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Any hand might be seen as an invasion of his space. It's probably just better to let him come out on his own, or to coax him out with treats. Is there any reason you object to using a perch when you need him out?
I also wasn't sure if this was helping or hurting the bonding proccess. Does it help with bonding to take him off the cage with a perch?
 

JLcribber

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I have taken him off the cage before with the perch but for some reason i feel like he resents me for it? I don't know he is completely tame once away from the cage so i was pretty sure my hands were the problem. He comes out of the cage willingly but doesn't get off the top of it... I'm not entirely sure whats going on with him

That's his safe zone and home base. If you can scoop him up without any fuss or stress then it will become a normal thing very quickly. If not he's going to learn to avoid those hands at all costs.
 

Saya

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So will
That's his safe zone and home base. If you can scoop him up without any fuss or stress then it will become a normal thing very quickly. If not he's going to learn to avoid those hands at all costs.
Will taking him off the cage hurt or help bonding?
 

JLcribber

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Does it help with bonding to take him off the cage with a perch?
No. Bonding has to do with "reward" for doing things and connecting/communicating with them. It's about "earning" trust over time by never being seen as a threat or "insistent" about things. It takes a long time to earn that trust where they willingly come to you because they want to. There is no shortcut.

You haven't mentioned at all what you do to "reward" desired behaviours? Positive reinforcement.
 

Saya

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No. Bonding has to do with "reward" for doing things and connecting/communicating with them. It's about "earning" trust over time by never being seen as a threat or "insistent" about things. It takes a long time to earn that trust where they willingly come to you because they want to. There is no shortcut.

You haven't mentioned at all what you do to "reward" desired behaviours? Positive reinforcement.
I give him millet and praise him constantly
 

Calpurnia

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I agree that forcing him to leave his safe place and creating all of these negative connotations with hands is not going to help your bonding process. If you think he resents you for trying to pick him up with a perch, he will really resent you when you start acting like a predator by grabbing him (btw I know you think there is a difference between grabbing and "scooping" but they really are the same thing).

I've seen your other thread and I know you think your bird is completely tame when he's off of his cage but to me it sounds like he isn't. Just that, when he flies off and gets stuck in an unknown place (or is moved to an unknown place) he is scared and nervous enough to trust you to take him back home (think of how quiet and subdued a bird acts when moved to a new home). He's also clipped, something that can greatly affect a bird's personality by making them feel helpless to escape. This "docile" nature can easily trick an owner into thinking a bird is willing and tame (again, this is similar to the "honeymoon" period). But because his cage is his safe place he feels more comfortable expressing his true feelings there.

I know it can be frustrating trying to win a bird over but I don't think the solution here is going to be some quick-fix like "take him away from his cage and voila! now he likes you!". If your bird has had any traumatic experiences in its past homes using force may actually hinder your progress or set you back in your training. A true relationship built of mutual trust and respect will only develop with time and patience.

I think you would benefit greatly from taking a few steps back and trying to win over his affection before worrying about hand-taming him. Try and think about how your actions are being perceived by your bird, then focus on making sure your interactions are positive. You won't see much progress if you spend a few days bribing him with millet and then ruin all of your progress by forcing him to leave his cage against his will. Instead, I would work on training him ON his cage so he feels more comfortable. Pick up a chopstick and a clicker and teach him how to target (see the book Getting Started: Clicker Training for Birds by Melinda Johnson for a crash course in this kind of training). Teach him a few tricks and let him learn that interacting with you is fun not stressful. Once he is running up to see you when you approach the cage then start using the target to lure him onto your finger. Go slowly and reward him frequently for each baby step (e.g. he lifts one foot, he puts one foot on your finger, he leans onto your finger, he puts a second foot on, etc). Try to erase all of the negative associations he has with hands and replace them with good ones.
 
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